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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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a "real man" * 1
    #22448708 - 10/29/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps we ought to do away with this "real man" bullshit.  It seems to me that real men are really scared little boys.  I think most women would agree.  Do you believe in the notion of a "real man"?  If so, why?  And if not, why not?  Is it just macho bluster, or is there substance to it?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: a "real man" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22449049 - 10/29/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Are you suggesting there's no such thing as courage? And that all males are "scared little boys"?


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: a "real man" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22449053 - 10/29/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

What about from the perspective of a woman?  What might they see as a "real man"?  There are certainly many women that I would consider "real" (or realer than many). 

Any guy who sees himself as a "real man"... you definitely have a point there.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: a "real man" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22449081 - 10/29/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Its embarrassing when its flags and trucks and guns and racism, etc.  I think the 'real man' has been duped and looped over and over and over again but doesn't really know this as his experience...  But there is something nagging for validation.  Perhaps this is found through identifying with this 'manlyness' stereotype.  I really think its a longing for something more, something ineffable.  I've noticed that men will prop up their 'manlyness' with the bible so there should be something of a religious experience had by these 'real men' to put all that in perspective in the grand scheme of being a man on earth.

However, there is something to say about the self made man that has accomplished success with the power of his will.  Success being a subjective experience attained by the satisfaction of his desire.


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: a "real man" [Re: FishOilTheKid] * 1
    #22449130 - 10/29/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

the only notion of a "real man" that comes to my mind when I ponder this is a man who steps up to the plate and does what needs to get done for his family first, then himself and friends.

and not a vanity stricken cry baby


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: a "real man" [Re: Rahz]
    #22449305 - 10/29/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
Any guy who sees himself as a "real man"... you definitely have a point there.




That's a big part of what I'm saying.  The "real man" archetype that men perceive themselves to be fulfilling, but are they?  And then my next question would be -- what about the archetype?


Quote:

Rahz said:
Are you suggesting there's no such thing as courage? And that all males are "scared little boys"?




It's not a comment about courage, but do you have to be a "real man" to be courageous?  That's sort of what doesn't make sense to me.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: a "real man" [Re: nuentoter]
    #22449313 - 10/29/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nuentoter said:
the only notion of a "real man" that comes to my mind when I ponder this is a man who steps up to the plate and does what needs to get done for his family first, then himself and friends.

and not a vanity stricken cry baby




Yeah, that makes sense.  But in that case I would say the inflated "real man" ego thing would be absent, actually.  Do we think "selflessness" when we hear the term "real man"?  I'm not sure.  Or are we thinking of the Marlboro Man or something? :lol:


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: a "real man" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22449667 - 10/29/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Perhaps we ought to do away with this "real man" bullshit.  It seems to me that real men are really scared little boys.  I think most women would agree.  Do you believe in the notion of a "real man"?  If so, why?  And if not, why not?  Is it just macho bluster, or is there substance to it?




Whats your definition of 'real man'?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: a "real man" [Re: White Beard]
    #22449682 - 10/29/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



The ability to attract multiple babes at the same time.



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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (10/29/15 03:49 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: a "real man" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22449718 - 10/29/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

It's not a comment about courage, but do you have to be a "real man" to be courageous?  That's sort of what doesn't make sense to me.




Well yea, that's the commonly understood definition of a real man/woman. To suggest otherwise indicates a type of social justice that seeks to corrupt the traditional use of language with the intent of supplanting any positive association with masculinity. There is a swaggering egoism associated with being male, machismo, also associated with the unwelcome domination of the female gender that has always been an impostor to courage and willful polarity.

To my mind this trend traces to the rise of Fascist/Technocratic idealism which seeks to take on the traditional role of father. If the state is to be the father then it's subjects must all be little boys and girls. There is less room for hierarchy than in the past, even in the context of a Monarchy which depended on strong masculine values among the many to assert centralized power. As corrupt as those systems may have been this brave new world is more so.

I don't think we can talk about "real men" without getting into the historical and modern context of governance and hierarchy. Also, there's no getting away from the polarity invested in the subject, though it's not primarily concerned with what's between the legs.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Edited by Rahz (10/29/15 03:51 PM)


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: a "real man" [Re: Rahz]
    #22449748 - 10/29/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Rahz your overthinking it man. when you talk about "real men" you don't need to get into any of that crap man. Just watch some TV on CBS NBC ABC from 4pm-11pm.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: a "real man" [Re: White Beard]
    #22449808 - 10/29/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Whats your definition of 'real man'?




Well that's part of my point, what is it?  Is there one?  When I think about it it seems to have something to do with strength and ego, but that's very amorphous.  I mean what I am asking is -- is there any such thing as a real man?  Or is it just some phony construct we all take for granted, which has little basis in fact?  The definition is one of the things I'm trying to get at, in order to evaluate the basis for this term.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: a "real man" [Re: nuentoter]
    #22449857 - 10/29/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

This is an interesting discussion. As someone who has used the phrase 'man up' many times in his life (much to the disdain of my female partners) I'm interested in nailing down what on earth I was even getting at when I said that. It sure as hell meant something, but it's very hard to put it into words.

I think, for me at least, what I was getting at was taking ones responsibilities head on, very similarly to the way nuentoter put it. Someone who:

Quote:

nuentoter said:
steps up to the plate and does what needs to get done for his family first, then himself and friends.



Although I would reverse the order slightly and say that I believe this should be 'himself first, then family, then friends'.

I think there's also a subtle undertone of courage in the use of this term, as has already been mentioned.

Not that any of this is gender specific, however the terminology just seems to have evolved that way. I think it encapsulates a way of facing the world, but has been assigned a gender in its interpretation in language, however incorrect that may be.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: a "real man" [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22449891 - 10/29/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Why don't you just "grow a pair?"


Seems we just covered this whole topic very recently. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22240243/fpart/1/vc/1


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: a "real man" [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22449921 - 10/29/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
Whats your definition of 'real man'?




Well that's part of my point, what is it?  Is there one?  When I think about it it seems to have something to do with strength and ego, but that's very amorphous.  I mean what I am asking is -- is there any such thing as a real man?  Or is it just some phony construct we all take for granted, which has little basis in fact?  The definition is one of the things I'm trying to get at, in order to evaluate the basis for this term.




I think women make up what a 'real man' is to benefit them. e.g. a real man pays on the first date.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: a "real man" [Re: White Beard]
    #22449956 - 10/29/15 04:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
I think women make up what a 'real man' is to benefit them. e.g. a real man pays on the first date.




That could be a valid perspective.  It makes me wonder, with all of the liberalization of women's rights, whether there's any way, at least in terms of modernity, that this "real man" idea could not be a fiction.  I mean women would say that any attribute you could point to in a man you can point to in a woman as well.  So I don't know, maybe it would help to get some female perspectives, if that is at all possible.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: a "real man" [Re: White Beard]
    #22449963 - 10/29/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Watched a video the other day wherein this woman was bitching about gender bias and how men objectified women non-stop. Ironically, she had perfect hair and make-up and showed the maximum amount of cleavage possible.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: a "real man" [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22449976 - 10/29/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Watched a video the other day wherein this woman was bitching about gender bias and how men objectified women non-stop. Ironically, she had perfect hair and make-up and showed the maximum amount of cleavage possible.




Yeah, they do that.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: a "real man" [Re: White Beard]
    #22450157 - 10/29/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Perhaps we ought to do away with this "real man" bullshit.  It seems to me that real men are really scared little boys.  I think most women would agree.  Do you believe in the notion of a "real man"?  If so, why?  And if not, why not?  Is it just macho bluster, or is there substance to it?




Whats your definition of 'real man'?




Not this.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: a "real man" [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #22450297 - 10/29/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Definitely this



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