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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: clock_of_omens]
#22444560 - 10/28/15 11:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's because you ask the wrong questions!
But you are very much right that I act like it is a self-evident fact. I mean, it is for me, I don't think about it that much anymore, to be honest. But you are right, I shouldn't act and talk like everybody believes this while I know better, thanks for realing me in a bit.
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Turtletotem]
#22444585 - 10/28/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't think I am asking the wrong questions. If god is exactly equal to all things, then god is just another name for all things. Therefore, god is a semantic device. There is no reason to believe in semantic god.
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nice1returns
I am the Holy Shit



Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 2,303
Loc: miwuaki
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: RanOutOfWeed] 1
#22444604 - 10/28/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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God and the devil are the same being and we are a part of it
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: clock_of_omens]
#22444605 - 10/28/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Heheheheh  You'll never know, until you do, and then it will be as if you always knew.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Turtletotem]
#22444612 - 10/28/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Perhaps God is simply the fully wired comprehension of all thought that is created in this vast multi dimensional universe. The connecting of the dots of all awareness and consciousness just as our mind connects all the electrical energy of all the cells in our body, God is the connected comprehension of all awareness and though EVERYWHERE.
God's the mainframe that every wire feeds into.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Turtletotem]
#22444627 - 10/28/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just as I suspected. Does anyone have any real arguments for semantic god? I'd love to hear one.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: clock_of_omens]
#22444641 - 10/28/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hahahaha! 
It's okay man, it's okay. It's not like I do not understand the concept, but shit, how could I put such a thing ever in words, know what I mean?
What's your beef anyway? You don't even believe, why care about what we believe? Why try to use your words on our concepts? It's not going to do anything, except confuse the situation.
Anyway this vast everything I call God is God because it is both it's own cause and effect, and is all things. It has a tremendous sense of being Holy, so that is why I call it God. But it could be called anything, don't mistake my concept of God with that of a personal deity in the sky.
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Turtletotem]
#22444670 - 10/28/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Turtletotem said: Hahahaha! 
It's okay man, it's okay. It's not like I do not understand the concept, but shit, how could I put such a thing ever in words, know what I mean?
What's your beef anyway? You don't even believe, why care about what we believe? Why try to use your words on our concepts? It's not going to do anything, except confuse the situation.
I care about what people believe because it affects their actions. Now, I don't really care about these hippy god is everything beliefs because they aren't going to cause anyone to do anything. However, I also care about logic and discussing things with people. I have never come across a god is everything person with a logical argument as to why they believe what they do.
Quote:
Anyway this vast everything I call God is God because it is both it's own cause and effect, and is all things. It has a tremendous sense of being Holy, so that is why I call it God. But it could be called anything, don't mistake my concept of God with that of a personal deity in the sky.
That is exactly my point. This is the semantic god concept. The problem is that the word god has wrapped up in it all these other connotations, so choosing that specific word is really just confusing the issue.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: clock_of_omens]
#22444681 - 10/28/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
clock_of_omens said:
Quote:
Turtletotem said: Hahahaha! 
It's okay man, it's okay. It's not like I do not understand the concept, but shit, how could I put such a thing ever in words, know what I mean?
What's your beef anyway? You don't even believe, why care about what we believe? Why try to use your words on our concepts? It's not going to do anything, except confuse the situation.
I care about what people believe because it affects their actions. Now, I don't really care about these hippy god is everything beliefs because they aren't going to cause anyone to do anything. However, I also care about logic and discussing things with people. I have never come across a god is everything person with a logical argument as to why they believe what they do.
Quote:
Anyway this vast everything I call God is God because it is both it's own cause and effect, and is all things. It has a tremendous sense of being Holy, so that is why I call it God. But it could be called anything, don't mistake my concept of God with that of a personal deity in the sky.
That is exactly my point. This is the semantic god concept. The problem is that the word god has wrapped up in it all these other connotations, so choosing that specific word is really just confusing the issue.
I don't know about hippy God.. Some scientists I know plus some really famous ones shared the same believe, and they are pretty damn rational people, I presume.
Also, what should I call it, then? Words are too feeble, and I can't paint or sing it, so until we can beam thoughts into eachother's brains, I guess calling it God would be the only way for most people to understand what I'm saying. Not that I talk about such matters outside of the Shroomery, but whatever.
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Turtletotem]
#22444705 - 10/28/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Turtletotem said: I don't know about hippy God.. Some scientists I know plus some really famous ones shared the same believe, and they are pretty damn rational people, I presume.
Also, what should I call it, then? Words are too feeble, and I can't paint or sing it, so until we can beam thoughts into eachother's brains, I guess calling it God would be the only way for most people to understand what I'm saying. Not that I talk about such matters outside of the Shroomery, but whatever.
I don't know, it depends on what you mean by it. If you really just mean that you think that everything is one, then just say that. Why call it god and add mystical or supernatural overtones to it? Unless that is what you are trying to do because you actually believe that there is something beyond the concept that everything is one.
Words are the only thing there is to describe anything. Any thought or feeling you have is put into words in your mind. Anything you beam into another's mind would be in the form of words, or would be translated into words by that person in order to understand it. Any painting you make will be interpreted by anyone looking at it with words. If you can't put it into words, you don't really understand what it is you are trying to get at.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: clock_of_omens]
#22444719 - 10/28/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Words are just symbols to describe shit, hombu. Like "There are the fruiting trees" Or "Lion = killing you" Or "Mass times acceleration equals force".
That last one... that's some pretty universal stuff, right? But what if your culture had no word for mass or force? How would you go on to describe it?
What I call god is not supernatural but nature itself, and everything in it. But it is folding in, knowhatIamsaying? No? Well because "folding in" does not really describe what I saw at all. But I can't put it in any better words, not because I don't understand it (It's simple actually) but because our language has no words of any kind to deal with this, except for in poetry. Poets are the true mystics mang
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Turtletotem]
#22444789 - 10/28/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Turtletotem said: Words are just symbols to describe shit, hombu. Like "There are the fruiting trees" Or "Lion = killing you" Or "Mass times acceleration equals force".
That last one... that's some pretty universal stuff, right? But what if your culture had no word for mass or force? How would you go on to describe it?
If the culture had no specific word equivalent to "force", they would have to describe it based on what force actually is, however simple or complicated their language would allow.
Quote:
What I call god is not supernatural but nature itself, and everything in it. But it is folding in, knowhatIamsaying? No? Well because "folding in" does not really describe what I saw at all. But I can't put it in any better words, not because I don't understand it (It's simple actually) but because our language has no words of any kind to deal with this, except for in poetry. Poets are the true mystics mang 
God has enough connotations without everyone using it to describe their own personal indescribable experiences. Just make up your own word. No one will know what the fuck you are talking about, but the thing is no one does now with you using the word god. At least if you use your made up word, people won't assume they know what you are talking about.
You and Moonshoe and Asante and all the other god is everything people act like you know what the others are talking about, but there is no way you are conceiving of the same thing. You're all using the word god to talk about different things but pretending to be on the same wavelength because you're using the same word.
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: clock_of_omens]
#22444796 - 10/28/15 01:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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But yes, poetry is kewl.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: clock_of_omens] 2
#22444807 - 10/28/15 01:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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As far as I understand, this thing, boundless, outside of time yet everywhen, truly unconditional love, and the prime creator.
Dunno, personal experience trumps religious dogma for me. What else can I call it?
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Turtletotem] 1
#22444809 - 10/28/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Om
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Everlong
King of the Neckbeards


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 9,087
Loc: Poconos
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Asante]
#22444816 - 10/28/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is OP Almond Flour?
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Asante]
#22444833 - 10/28/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: Om

But of course!
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Turtletotem]
#22444841 - 10/28/15 01:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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naw OP's been around since before that
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clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: Turtletotem]
#22444857 - 10/28/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Turtletotem said: As far as I understand, this thing, boundless, outside of time yet everywhen, truly unconditional love, and the prime creator.
Dunno, personal experience trumps religious dogma for me. What else can I call it?
See, now you are positing things outside of observable reality. "This thing" is now outside of space and time. That would imply that it is in fact more than everything. "This thing" also somehow has the human conceived attribute of unconditional love. What's that about?
Everything should trump religious dogma, but your personal experiences should be able to be described intelligibly to others in order for them to be taken seriously as anything other than personal experiences.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Why Did a Loving God Create infinite torture for not believing in it? [Re: clock_of_omens]
#22444942 - 10/28/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Space and time are encompassed within it.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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