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Offlinesheptownboi
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Just had a thought...
    #22442016 - 10/27/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I was just wondering if you could put food dye in the water you use when making cakes using pf tek to make your mushies turn different colors, red for example. I know this is probably pretty stupid but what do you guys think  :dafuq:


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: sheptownboi]
    #22442040 - 10/27/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The shrooms will grow according to their genetics, the color of the substrate makes no difference. Cool idea tho!! :brilliant:


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OfflineArush
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: sheptownboi]
    #22442051 - 10/27/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I was thinking about this recently too but the mycelium would just consume it with no effect. Would be nice to alter the taste of mushrooms.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Arush]
    #22442121 - 10/27/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The mycelium breaks down the coloring.  All my dyed agar dishes are clearish yellow/white by the time the mycelium has started consuming it.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Arush]
    #22442143 - 10/27/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The color would come from the water if enough dye is present and should go into the fruitbodies after that, but I doubt it will look the same when they are dried. If it is the natural dyes it might be decomposed (i.e. the dead bug ones). You could go with synthetic dyes like Red No. 2 and Red No. 40 though and you might be okay. I think those are petroleum based.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Arush]
    #22442152 - 10/27/15 09:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Arush said:
I was thinking about this recently too but the mycelium would just consume it with no effect. Would be nice to alter the taste of mushrooms.




Salad dressing does wonders if you are eating them fresh!


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: micro]
    #22442158 - 10/27/15 09:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I would think the synthetic dyes would stay in the substrate.  I've never seen mycelium push anything into the fruits that couldn't be broken down.


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22442310 - 10/27/15 09:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I would think the synthetic dyes would stay in the substrate.  I've never seen mycelium push anything into the fruits that couldn't be broken down.




heavy metals, for one.

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/8140/1/NPR%204(6)%20454-459.pdf


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Munchauzen]
    #22442334 - 10/27/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well... synthetic dyes are just hydrocarbons though aren't they?

I've heard about the heavy metals, not sure if it applies to cubes or not.  Seems safer to assume yes but we don't really use heavy metals in our substrates either.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22442432 - 10/27/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
The mycelium breaks down the coloring.  All my dyed agar dishes are clearish yellow/white by the time the mycelium has started consuming it.



:whathesaid:

Plus, heavy metal absorption and things of that nature only
apply to primary decomposers, of which cubes are not, as
I have been led to believe.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22442447 - 10/27/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Uh.. cubes are both primary and secondary decomposers.


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Offlinesheptownboi
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22442453 - 10/27/15 10:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Damn, aw well. thanks for the input guys :thumbup:


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22442475 - 10/27/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Uh.. cubes are both primary and secondary decomposers.





True, but in nature, cubes will rarely, if ever, be found growing
on fresh grain or straw that is uncomposted. They almost always
grow on fecal or compost waste, right?

In cultivation, it is a different story. We force it to colonize grain
and other subs:shrug:

So yes it can be both in cultivation, but outdoors, in its natural
environment, they are mainly secondary decomposers


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22442480 - 10/27/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah but that's those dudes over in hunting and identification eating those. :lol:


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22442486 - 10/27/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:lol: lets just hope no one is shooting up their cows with lead
and murcury!


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22442550 - 10/27/15 10:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

They are secondary decomposers only to occupy their niche in nature. They are primary decomposers in that they do not require substrates to be broken down by another organism. We do not force them to eat un-decomposed substrates, we provide them with what they will do best with.

A true secondary decomposer will not be able to fruit off of a substrate not decomposed already.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22442617 - 10/27/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Pasty comin in to clear things up!

Just to clarify, i meant force as in coax it to do
something it wouldn't do in nature, like colonize fresh grains.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22442672 - 10/27/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Fair enough but to further clarify, the only reason they don't colonize fresh grain in nature is that there simply is no source of hydrated grain free from competitors in nature. If there was you can be your last buck that they would be all over it. But even secondary decomposers can often colonize sterile substrates just fine. Its fruiting that they usually require things to be either further broken down, or have less nutrition relative to substrate volume, or to have microbes present.

Grains are rich in nutes and that can cause some issues for some species, especially woodlovers. But most of those still do just fine on undecomposed wood.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22442701 - 10/27/15 11:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ya i see what you're sayin'.

I have found cubes growing on
straw in nature only once, and it was a
mix of straw and hpoo.

So what do you think about their ability to absorb readily
available toxins from the environment like some primary
decomposers?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22442733 - 10/27/15 11:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I really don't know. Something to look into as its certainly possible. While nothing has probably been done with research on cubes in that respect but we could look at some similar species. Or I suppose one could simply do what they could to ensure a heavy metal free substrate for them :wink:


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22442748 - 10/27/15 11:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ya but I just love using lead dust as an additive!

Naw but I mean purely as a means of bioremediation
and not necessarily for the safety of home cultivators.

Cubes are hardy and are not too finicky with their environmental
factors, so they could be good candidates if they do.


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OfflineD0peGr0ws
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: natedawgnow]
    #22442786 - 10/27/15 11:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

My agar is died yellow and doesn't alter mycellium at all.


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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: D0peGr0ws]
    #22443285 - 10/28/15 03:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I really don't know. Something to look into as its certainly possible. While nothing has probably been done with research on cubes in that respect but we could look at some similar species. Or I suppose one could simply do what they could to ensure a heavy metal free substrate for them :wink:




I know one thing you shouldn't do if you want to keep your grow area free of heavy metals.

Don't play this.



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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22443317 - 10/28/15 03:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Well... synthetic dyes are just hydrocarbons though aren't they?

I've heard about the heavy metals, not sure if it applies to cubes or not.  Seems safer to assume yes but we don't really use heavy metals in our substrates either.




Well, hydrocarbon *based* but obviously have enough crap stuck onto them to have a charge. Food coloring is soluble in water, after all. They probably do that so it works in oil and water, at least that sounds good, I guess :shrug:

If the mycelium will take in the water and the dye is small enough to go with it (which it should be) it's then absorbed. I'm not gonna say for sure though they can't digest it. When fungi decomposes polyurethane and can live off only that it makes me question these things :lol:

Re: heavy metals -- this is more enzymatic destruction by redox reactions, for example the laccases, which neutralize magnesium and other heavy metals. I don't think copper is, as it is toxic to most fungi. (Cu is weird anyway; I believe it is normally chelated in digestion and absorption in other kingdoms).


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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: micro]
    #22443327 - 10/28/15 03:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well, all I have to go off of is putting a few different food colors in agar and watching the fruits come off of that.  I haven't tried anything that wasn't deemed food grade, which I imagine is where all these other things would fall under.


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22443332 - 10/28/15 04:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22443338 - 10/28/15 04:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yep.  I dunno how I forgot to mention but the black dye.. I guess it's really just super dark green or whatever, but anyway, that DOES absorb into the mycelium.  Seems to slow it down some, and it makes it look a little weak.  I don't know if I have a picture of that happening...


That's the agar but I can't seem to find the mycelium picture... someone else reported the same results.


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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22443468 - 10/28/15 06:22 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Dark green to black and slowed mycelial growth?

Could it be this? I know Cu is toxic to fungi to an extent...

Quote:

Sodium copper chlorophyllin.

The color additive sodium copper chlorophyllin is a green to black powder prepared from chlorophyll by saponification and replacement of magnesium by copper.




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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: micro]
    #22443505 - 10/28/15 06:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I dunno, would that be in a food coloring?


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