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sheptownboi
Overlord



Registered: 07/13/15
Posts: 131
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Just had a thought...
#22442016 - 10/27/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was just wondering if you could put food dye in the water you use when making cakes using pf tek to make your mushies turn different colors, red for example. I know this is probably pretty stupid but what do you guys think
-------------------- 'If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place' -Lao Tzu
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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The shrooms will grow according to their genetics, the color of the substrate makes no difference. Cool idea tho!!
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Arush
Godfather



Registered: 05/06/13
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Loc: Canada
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I was thinking about this recently too but the mycelium would just consume it with no effect. Would be nice to alter the taste of mushrooms.
-------------------- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22409475 “Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behaviour and information processing. They open you up to the possibility that everything you know is wrong.” ― Terence McKenna
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Arush]
#22442121 - 10/27/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The mycelium breaks down the coloring. All my dyed agar dishes are clearish yellow/white by the time the mycelium has started consuming it.
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micro
bunbun has a gungun



Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Arush]
#22442143 - 10/27/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The color would come from the water if enough dye is present and should go into the fruitbodies after that, but I doubt it will look the same when they are dried. If it is the natural dyes it might be decomposed (i.e. the dead bug ones). You could go with synthetic dyes like Red No. 2 and Red No. 40 though and you might be okay. I think those are petroleum based.
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free (Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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micro
bunbun has a gungun



Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Arush]
#22442152 - 10/27/15 09:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arush said: I was thinking about this recently too but the mycelium would just consume it with no effect. Would be nice to alter the taste of mushrooms.
Salad dressing does wonders if you are eating them fresh!
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free (Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: micro]
#22442158 - 10/27/15 09:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would think the synthetic dyes would stay in the substrate. I've never seen mycelium push anything into the fruits that couldn't be broken down.
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
#22442310 - 10/27/15 09:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: I would think the synthetic dyes would stay in the substrate. I've never seen mycelium push anything into the fruits that couldn't be broken down.
heavy metals, for one.
http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/8140/1/NPR%204(6)%20454-459.pdf
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Munchauzen]
#22442334 - 10/27/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well... synthetic dyes are just hydrocarbons though aren't they?
I've heard about the heavy metals, not sure if it applies to cubes or not. Seems safer to assume yes but we don't really use heavy metals in our substrates either.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
#22442432 - 10/27/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: The mycelium breaks down the coloring. All my dyed agar dishes are clearish yellow/white by the time the mycelium has started consuming it.

Plus, heavy metal absorption and things of that nature only apply to primary decomposers, of which cubes are not, as I have been led to believe.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Uh.. cubes are both primary and secondary decomposers.
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sheptownboi
Overlord



Registered: 07/13/15
Posts: 131
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Damn, aw well. thanks for the input guys
-------------------- 'If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place' -Lao Tzu
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
#22442475 - 10/27/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Uh.. cubes are both primary and secondary decomposers.
True, but in nature, cubes will rarely, if ever, be found growing on fresh grain or straw that is uncomposted. They almost always grow on fecal or compost waste, right?
In cultivation, it is a different story. We force it to colonize grain and other subs
So yes it can be both in cultivation, but outdoors, in its natural environment, they are mainly secondary decomposers
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Yeah but that's those dudes over in hunting and identification eating those.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
#22442486 - 10/27/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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lets just hope no one is shooting up their cows with lead and murcury!
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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They are secondary decomposers only to occupy their niche in nature. They are primary decomposers in that they do not require substrates to be broken down by another organism. We do not force them to eat un-decomposed substrates, we provide them with what they will do best with.
A true secondary decomposer will not be able to fruit off of a substrate not decomposed already.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22442617 - 10/27/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Pasty comin in to clear things up!
Just to clarify, i meant force as in coax it to do something it wouldn't do in nature, like colonize fresh grains.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Fair enough but to further clarify, the only reason they don't colonize fresh grain in nature is that there simply is no source of hydrated grain free from competitors in nature. If there was you can be your last buck that they would be all over it. But even secondary decomposers can often colonize sterile substrates just fine. Its fruiting that they usually require things to be either further broken down, or have less nutrition relative to substrate volume, or to have microbes present.
Grains are rich in nutes and that can cause some issues for some species, especially woodlovers. But most of those still do just fine on undecomposed wood.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22442701 - 10/27/15 11:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ya i see what you're sayin'.
I have found cubes growing on straw in nature only once, and it was a mix of straw and hpoo.
So what do you think about their ability to absorb readily available toxins from the environment like some primary decomposers?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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I really don't know. Something to look into as its certainly possible. While nothing has probably been done with research on cubes in that respect but we could look at some similar species. Or I suppose one could simply do what they could to ensure a heavy metal free substrate for them
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22442748 - 10/27/15 11:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ya but I just love using lead dust as an additive!
Naw but I mean purely as a means of bioremediation and not necessarily for the safety of home cultivators.
Cubes are hardy and are not too finicky with their environmental factors, so they could be good candidates if they do.
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D0peGr0ws
Stranger
Registered: 05/26/15
Posts: 10
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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My agar is died yellow and doesn't alter mycellium at all.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: D0peGr0ws]
#22443285 - 10/28/15 03:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I really don't know. Something to look into as its certainly possible. While nothing has probably been done with research on cubes in that respect but we could look at some similar species. Or I suppose one could simply do what they could to ensure a heavy metal free substrate for them 
I know one thing you shouldn't do if you want to keep your grow area free of heavy metals.
Don't play this.
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micro
bunbun has a gungun



Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
#22443317 - 10/28/15 03:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Well... synthetic dyes are just hydrocarbons though aren't they?
I've heard about the heavy metals, not sure if it applies to cubes or not. Seems safer to assume yes but we don't really use heavy metals in our substrates either.
Well, hydrocarbon *based* but obviously have enough crap stuck onto them to have a charge. Food coloring is soluble in water, after all. They probably do that so it works in oil and water, at least that sounds good, I guess 
If the mycelium will take in the water and the dye is small enough to go with it (which it should be) it's then absorbed. I'm not gonna say for sure though they can't digest it. When fungi decomposes polyurethane and can live off only that it makes me question these things 
Re: heavy metals -- this is more enzymatic destruction by redox reactions, for example the laccases, which neutralize magnesium and other heavy metals. I don't think copper is, as it is toxic to most fungi. (Cu is weird anyway; I believe it is normally chelated in digestion and absorption in other kingdoms).
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free (Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: micro]
#22443327 - 10/28/15 03:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, all I have to go off of is putting a few different food colors in agar and watching the fruits come off of that. I haven't tried anything that wasn't deemed food grade, which I imagine is where all these other things would fall under.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
#22443332 - 10/28/15 04:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: LocN9ne]
#22443338 - 10/28/15 04:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yep. I dunno how I forgot to mention but the black dye.. I guess it's really just super dark green or whatever, but anyway, that DOES absorb into the mycelium. Seems to slow it down some, and it makes it look a little weak. I don't know if I have a picture of that happening...

That's the agar but I can't seem to find the mycelium picture... someone else reported the same results.
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micro
bunbun has a gungun



Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: Inocuole]
#22443468 - 10/28/15 06:22 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dark green to black and slowed mycelial growth?
Could it be this? I know Cu is toxic to fungi to an extent...
Quote:
Sodium copper chlorophyllin.
The color additive sodium copper chlorophyllin is a green to black powder prepared from chlorophyll by saponification and replacement of magnesium by copper.
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free (Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Just had a thought... [Re: micro]
#22443505 - 10/28/15 06:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dunno, would that be in a food coloring?
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