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Offlinesir_longdong
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Lids ok for making LC?
    #22440599 - 10/27/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

   

  1) wondering if these lids are ok for making karo/water LC?

2) if so will i have to use a filter syringe or will my filter be enough ( think I'm asking to be flamed for such a stupid question)??


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: sir_longdong]
    #22440608 - 10/27/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

looks like the lids I use for LC :thumbup:
just make sure you don't tilt the jar so much to get the filter you do have wet.

Inoculate with agar wedge(don't use spore syringe to inoculate LC), and let colonize, when ready you can suck it up with your syringes any time you need.


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: sir_longdong]
    #22440613 - 10/27/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, just make sure to loosen the lids a bit if you are pressure cooking them, and after let the entire thing cool down (along with the jars inside) before opening it.


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: micro]
    #22440614 - 10/27/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

why loosen the lids if they have a filter? I have loosened 0 lids ever, that have had filters.


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22440627 - 10/27/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Probably don't need to, but just to be safe.

I'm not sure how much air can escape if those are .2um filters, but probably enough to prevent them from exploding.

I'd hate to tell someone otherwise and then damage their PC 'cause that has happened to me before :lol:


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: micro]
    #22440635 - 10/27/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

they wouldn't explode even without the filter, how do you think mason jars work. but the filters we put on jars flow enough air though.


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Offlinesir_longdong
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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22440651 - 10/27/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

awesome good to hear, so since their is basically a filtered hole i don't need a second syringe  to help with the vacuum effect correct? i can just suck it up with one syringe and the "covered hole" will replace the polyfille syringe


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22440655 - 10/27/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
they wouldn't explode even without the filter, how do you think mason jars work. but the filters we put on jars flow enough air though.




Oh? Is this a trick question :rolleyes:

They work like jars :V


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: sir_longdong]
    #22440662 - 10/27/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sir_longdong said:
awesome good to hear, so since their is basically a filtered hole i don't need a second syringe  to help with the vacuum effect correct? i can just suck it up with one syringe and the "covered hole" will replace the polyfille syringe




Not if you let it cool down completely, first.

(that is the very reason I mentioned it in my post)


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: micro]
    #22440674 - 10/27/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I've never had a jar crack from the vacuum effect, that's very rare scenario IMO.

The filters let a lot of air pass.  Enough to depressurize a jar in about 1 second (I timed it :lol:).

I wouldn't hesitate to trust a sfd to be able to depressurize.  I would never loosen the lid to pc.


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: invitro]
    #22440681 - 10/27/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

filter or not all jars die eventually from heat processing they're not made out of awesome glass.

but most of the people on the internet bitching about their cracked canning jars probably also failed to include their operator error with their inquiry.


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: invitro]
    #22440687 - 10/27/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I do my grain jars with the lid screwed until there's a bit of resistance so I can take the lid off easily. Different strokes lol. I just find it a huge pain when the lids are tight AF


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22440699 - 10/27/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I don't go tight AF, but it's not loose or anything. just as torqued down as you would do if it were made entirely of plastic and you didn't want to break it. If you make them tight AF good luck unscrewing them with grace in your SAB or FH

a little bit of chapstick on the top rim of the glass part :thumbup:


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: invitro]
    #22440751 - 10/27/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
I've never had a jar crack from the vacuum effect, that's very rare scenario IMO.




"its never happened to me so it must be very rare..." :lol:

sorry, i find humor in strange places

the vacuum effect i was referring to is when you *don't* let them cool down

you ever stuck a syringe full of... anything into a bottle like that? :V

Quote:

invitro said:
I wouldn't hesitate to trust a sfd to be able to depressurize.  I would never loosen the lid to pc.




Well, good luck. The filter patches on the bags they sell hardly allow the air to come out when you squeeze it. It will but it's sloow. Not sure why you think loosening the lids is scary >.>

You aren't supposed to loosen them a lot -- maybe 1/4 turn just so pressurized air can move in and out.


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: micro]
    #22440770 - 10/27/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The reason I said "in my opinion" was specifically to say that I wasn't drawing a hard a fast rule, just telling my experience.

Even a hot lc I think the SFD would depressurize the jar quickly.  (I'm running a test right now to confirm)...

I'm not talking about filters on bags, I'm talking about sfds and or celluose filter discs.

loosening the lid is not scary just completely unnecessary and it is a path for contams to come in (however remote the likelyhood the possibility is there), if unfiltered air can come in so can contams. 


Edited by invitro (10/27/15 04:11 PM)


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Offlinesir_longdong
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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: micro]
    #22440885 - 10/27/15 04:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

the vacuum effect i am referring and asking about is when sucking the LC up the pressure makes it hard for the plunger to move,  thats why some lids require a second syringe to create equal pressure. i am asking since this lid basically has a filtered hole am i going to need a second syringe


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: sir_longdong]
    #22440896 - 10/27/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I see, the answer is no, it will not cause a problem, based on my experiences.


Edited by invitro (10/27/15 04:25 PM)


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: invitro]
    #22440949 - 10/27/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
loosening the lid is not scary just completely unnecessary and it is a path for contams to come in (however remote the likelyhood the possibility is there), if unfiltered air can come in so can contams. 





No, it can't.

Source: I used to work with BL4's =P

But I'll Google it anyway:

Quote:


Remember Dust Falls

If you remember that dust falls or is blown by wind, you will have fewer contamination problems. Thus, a loose foil cover or lid will protect a container from contamination. Loose covers such as those on petri dishes are effective because dust only falls, unless it is blown by a wind. Remember to shut off electric fans when you are working with loose fitting covers. Get your cultures into your dust-free boxes soon as possible.

http://www.disknet.com/indiana_biolab/b024.htm




Quote:

To prevent bottles from shattering during pressurization, the caps of vessels with liquids must be fully loosened before loading. Always use the slow exhaust or liquid cool cycle when autoclaving liquids to prevent liquid boil over which can result in loss of content.
Never autoclave a sealed vessel containing liquids as this may result in an explosion of super-heated liquid and steam during the cycle or when the vessel is opened.
Wear heat-resistant gloves when opening the autoclave door after a cycle. At a minimum, when removing items from an autoclave, a rubber apron, rubber sleeve protectors and heat-resistant gloves should be worn.

Wait 5 minutes before removing dry glassware from the autoclave, and wait 10 to 20 minutes for glassware containing liquids. The larger the volume of liquid the longer you should wait. Liquids removed too soon may boil and overflow the vessel, burning operator.
DO NOT tighten caps on vessels immediately after autoclaving as the vacuum resulting from the cooling of the steam in the vessel can cause the cap or vessel to shatter.  This is especially important on larger vessels. Caps with liners may have their liner sucked into the vessel if the cap is not lose enough on the vessel opening.

- See more at: http://www.labdepotinc.com/articles/autoclaving-laboratory-glassware.html#sthash.jWt4RqhW.dpuf




Cellulose filters don't get rid of all microbes and is more of a crapshoot.


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: sir_longdong]
    #22440967 - 10/27/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sir_longdong said:
the vacuum effect i am referring and asking about is when sucking the LC up the pressure makes it hard for the plunger to move,  thats why some lids require a second syringe to create equal pressure. i am asking since this lid basically has a filtered hole am i going to need a second syringe




just let it cool first

you really should be doing that, anyway

i've had the pressure differential where i stuck a syringe into the jar and it sucked the whole thing up in a second :\


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Offlinepitbullfan
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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: micro]
    #22441002 - 10/27/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If your filter allows airflow (even if its slow) you will not (really cannot) have a vacuum, unless said filter gets clogged somehow.


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: micro]
    #22441016 - 10/27/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If your talking about a sterilizer unit or something that holds a vacuum then your right about the contams not being able to get in, but most people use a presto with a rocker that does let unsterile air in and wont hold a vacuum, and as THAT unsterile air goes in sideways to depressurize the jar -it IS a contam vector-.  It is bad advice to give to someone using a presto to loosen the lid, though the chances might be remote, I repeat it is bad advice if it's not necessary and it's not necessary.


Edited by invitro (10/27/15 04:55 PM)


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: pitbullfan]
    #22441023 - 10/27/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Just let everything cool overnight, and don't get your filter wet when drawing up inoculate. :thumbup:


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: invitro]
    #22441033 - 10/27/15 04:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

None of those bottles at lab depot inc have SFDs siliconed onto the lid.... check the picture, of course you have to loosen the lid, and ofcourse they are using a sterilizer not a presto....

:waitingpatiently:


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: sir_longdong]
    #22441147 - 10/27/15 05:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So I pced a quart of water until 10psi, and used a lid almost identical to the OPs, stuck an empty syringe in, and the needle did not get sucked in at all, and the lid popped right off, zero pressure.  It is totally not happening that the sfd will allow a vacuum of any kind.  SFDs and Cellulose disks pull a ton of air, they are not the same as filter patches on bags.

I took the temp of the water immediately after the syringe going in and it read about 49.5C or  111f
I could test again at higher temperatures ....


Edited by invitro (10/27/15 05:49 PM)


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: invitro]
    #22441160 - 10/27/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i like to put a couple of marbles in a jar of LC.


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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: invitro]
    #22441935 - 10/27/15 08:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
None of those bottles at lab depot inc have SFDs siliconed onto the lid.... check the picture, of course you have to loosen the lid, and ofcourse they are using a sterilizer not a presto..




An autoclave is really just a large pressure cooker that locks.

And yeah, cellulose filters are made for separating solids in suspensions.

It's probably enough to keep contamination away but I'd always ask for the .2um ones.

Quote:

invitro said:
I could test again at higher temperatures ....




Did you do the normal sterilization run?

If so, nothing more to demonstrate unless you had the same jars as he is using.

It's safe to say if he has the same filter papers you are using it should be similar.

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
i like to put a couple of marbles in a jar of LC.




Yeah, or broken glass or something.

Just need to chop up that mycelium.


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: micro]
    #22441976 - 10/27/15 08:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I haven't done the normal run yet no... not sure I have time for that right now. 

:popcorn:


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Lids ok for making LC? [Re: micro]
    #22443655 - 10/28/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm talking about the cellulose filter discs from Aloha that are made for mycology.

Also, an easy way to tell how well your sfd or whatever breathes enough not to hold pressure is simply to put the lid on the jar tight, with the jar nearly full of water and take a 60cc syringe.  Aspirate.  If there were an issue you wouldn't be able to fill the whole syringe, aspirate over and over again if you like, no vacuum forms.  Alternatively you could inject 60ccs of air over and over, no resistance. 

I just pumped 60ccs of air into a jar 95% full of water, injected all at once in about 1 second, what happens is the lid bows up and then bows back down after one second as the pressure is totally equalized.  My sfds are from MadSeason if I recall.


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