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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22442059 - 10/27/15 08:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SleepyE said:
i guess my existence is meaningless and pointless afterall, oh joy




Its up to you to make meaning and to make a point.  If you are not up to that task then a meaningless, pointless existence may be your fate.  :shrug:


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OfflineSleepyE
DMT is metaphysical
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Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 8,759
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22442100 - 10/27/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i plan on making meaning in my life, pushing myself in all ends of my interests. Its just i cant get over the fact that ive experienced a lot of magic but cannot find information on it actually existing outside my experience.

i appreciate your posts though :hug:


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Draw DMT!

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22442113 - 10/27/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Its just i cant get over the fact that ive experienced a lot of magic but cannot find information on it actually existing outside my experience.




Experience is undeniable.  The interpretation and rationalization of that experience is not.  I'm full of suggestions.... :wink:  I suggest you let your experience be just that - your experience.  Let it exist independently of interpretations and rationalizations.


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OfflineSleepyE
DMT is metaphysical
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Registered: 07/21/08
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22442131 - 10/27/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i think thats wise, :smile: i can still go with what draws my wonder, i guess there will always be something magical about that.

i mean even if our reality doesnt get stranger than what we are used too, i guess its still pretty spooky that we can from nothing apparently. and that chemicals somehow arrange themselves into something as complex as conscious experience for some reason, thats pretty mystical i guess aha.


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Draw DMT!

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OfflineSleepyE
DMT is metaphysical
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Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 8,759
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22442324 - 10/27/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

this was interesting, i came by a physics forum just now with someone asking this very question.

Quote:


The point is that consciousness has nothing to do with measurement.

Quote:


The point is, that statement is patently false. The truth is that measurement, as defined and understood and contemplated and used by the conscious physicist, can happen even if no such physicist is present. However, to give semantic meaning to what a measurement even is, this does indeed require a conscious intelligence (so far as we understand what those words mean), who has been there in a fully analogous situation for us to be able to use any of those words meaningfully. In short, a universe with no intelligent beings is a universe that has no measurements, and no wave functions to collapse. That is not an opinion, it is a fact-- in such a universe there are not the words "wavefunction", there is not the concept "amplitude", because there are no words and no concepts in the first place, stuff just happens, presumably the same as it does now minus any concept of "measurement" or "collapse" of anything. The significance of this fact opens up a lot of what physics really means, but does indeed get a bit philosophical, so if the OPer has any specific questions about it, they should probably frame them in terms of quantum mechanical predictions for this section.

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-consciousness-involved-in-wave-function-collapse.507154/





Quote:



I think the context of the forum this question was posted in removes the ambiguity you describe.

Quote:


Again, no. Indeed right now there are several threads in this subforum grappling with essentially purely philosophical issues about de Broglie-Bohm interpretations and just what "quantum information" really entails. Issues of determinism as a fundamental truth, or just a modeling assumption, are also being addressed. None of those come under the heading of what the quantum theory says about measurement, because the quantum theory only says one thing about measurements: it predicts them.

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-consciousness-involved-in-wave-function-collapse.507154/





definitely an interesting read into the idea, im not sure if they know their shit though.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: SleepyE] * 1
    #22442468 - 10/27/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think this one describes actual experiments well.

Quote:

The collapse of states or wave functions is traditionally related to 'observations'. However there are several common natural systems where states collapse by themselves. Human consiousness or awareness is not relevant at all. You could just make a measuring device that didn't show the results and the measured system would still collapse. In other words, you can't obtain (exact) information of a quantum system without collapsing its states. But it doesn't work the other way around. You can collapse the state without obtaining any information at all.

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-consciousness-involved-in-wave-function-collapse.507154/




Consiousness is sufficent, but not necessary.  Simply flood the space around the double slit experiment with atmosphere and you will no longer see an interference pattern.  The air alone does the same as a vacuum with a detector and a human reading the output.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22447767 - 10/29/15 03:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: laughingdog]
    #22448725 - 10/29/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That's pretty good.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22452083 - 10/30/15 02:22 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

the universe doesn't like it's peas mixed with it's porridge.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22452206 - 10/30/15 04:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

A possible 'solution' or interpretation of the equations, might be the existence of higher dimensions?
Do the string theorists have anything to say on the subject?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: laughingdog]
    #22452906 - 10/30/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
A possible 'solution' or interpretation of the equations, might be the existence of higher dimensions?
Do the string theorists have anything to say on the subject?




In string theory there are ten spacetime dimensions.  But string theory has "got some issues."


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22455626 - 10/30/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

by issues you  mean it's non testable?

But if we put the strings thru a slit do we get pasta or meatballs?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: laughingdog]
    #22455736 - 10/30/15 09:49 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Haha, yeah, it would require technological precision that, it is said, would be many decades away at best.  So it is experimentally totally untestable and therefore essentially philosophy or religion as far as most physicists are concerned.  Also, it is extraordinarily difficult to get unique solutions for some of the mathematical equations pertaining I believe to the dimensional geometry.  It's a needle in a haystack, essentially -- they're trying to find the one correct solution out of many millions of possible ones, and they don't really know what they're doing.  It's quite a conundrum.  So, string theory is not without its drawbacks.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: laughingdog]
    #22455816 - 10/30/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
A possible 'solution' or interpretation of the equations, might be the existence of higher dimensions?





I like that you put solution in quotes there.  But I can't help but wonder, what exactly is the problem that you want a solution too?  Not trying to give you a hard time, but the more specific you can be the better.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Double Slit Mass confusion? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22458302 - 10/31/15 04:00 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Im sure the consciousness encompasses the whole universe...and therefore what is projected and created is in the realm of consciousness...So that what is going on can be labled as Mind stuff...or to know exactly the portions that Matter interacts with the material of the mind..the mind can change a substance immediately..into the normal progress of the day or by using transferring alchemy..but the Ki so to speak is interacting with the matter of the universe...which is placed from the Soul..and consciousness in general..to be able to interact and have a story..So that we can be determinative and functioning in an honest awareness..where we have places to live..and things to do..and people to see..as bodies in motion and rest..

But as a total..the matter of the universe came from consciousness...and now is left loose..into the real waves and frequencies of time..

Ultimately man always struggles to be precise..and it is this type of focus..which orders the universe!


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