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Stonehenge
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Another war crime by obumble
#22439587 - 10/27/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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We know obumble constantly lets his flunkies take the blame for whatever goes wrong with his policies and stupid decisions. However, it becomes more and more clear that the bombing of the hospital was not only deliberate but was because they treated members of the Taliban who the military would prefer just died. Obumble should be tried for his many war crimes.
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/10/26/evidence-mounts-us-military-knew-they-were-bombing-active-hospital
The Associated Press provided new evidence Monday that the U.S. military knew that the Doctors Without Borders (MSF) hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan was an active medical facility before they bombed it, bolstering the aid agency's charge that the attack—which killed at least 30 people—amounted to a war crime.
"A day before an American AC130 gunship attacked the hospital, a senior officer in the Green Beret unit wrote in a report that U.S. forces had discussed the hospital with the country director of the medical charity group, presumably in Kabul, according to two people who have seen the document," reports journalist Ken Dilanian.
In addition, MSF spokesperson Tim Shenk told the AP that in the days leading up to the bombing, a U.S. official asked the aid agency whether their Kunduz hospital "had a large group of Taliban fighters in it." According to Shenk, the group "replied that this was not the case. We also stated that we were very clear with both sides to the conflict about the need to respect medical structures."
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: Stonehenge]
#22439649 - 10/27/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Vincent Bugliosi couldn't get anyone to prosecute Bush, what makes you think anyone will prosecute Obama?
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qman
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: Stonehenge]
#22439656 - 10/27/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Obama would hurt himself firing a squirt gun, he's no Commander in Chief, he's a golfer and basketball shooter with a big mouth.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: qman]
#22439684 - 10/27/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm outraged too but I don't think anything will happen.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: Stonehenge]
#22439844 - 10/27/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do disagreement here.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
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Ok, we agree obumble is a war criminal as well as an incompetent commander in chief and a fumbler at the economy. Besides that, he is an Orwellian politician that pushes nsa spying on citizens, militarizes the police, polarizes the population with his shit stirring speeches and no one can believe anything he says.
If you can overlook all that, he has been an ok president.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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ballsalsa
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: Stonehenge]
#22441388 - 10/27/15 06:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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so you're saying that you think Obama is more or less on par with the 6 or 8 presidents that came immediately before him?
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Stonehenge
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: ballsalsa]
#22441423 - 10/27/15 06:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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>so you're saying that you think Obama is more or less on par with the 6 or 8 presidents that came immediately before him?
I would say he is as bad or worse than shrub, and worse than Clinton. Shrub was a fuckup too so those two might be comparable, obumble vs a retard. But all presidents before shrub did a much better job on the economy and other things than obumble. Even Reagan when he was senile and let his handlers make decisions was better. He did less harm. None of the previous presidents sent our military off to fight for no good reason like the present goofball. Except shrub which is why he is about on the same level of being a bad president.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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ballsalsa
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: Stonehenge]
#22441466 - 10/27/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: None of the previous presidents sent our military off to fight for no good reason like the present goofball. Except shrub which is why he is about on the same level of being a bad president.
I would think that that is debatable. Someone might point out Kosovo, Desert Storm, Grenada, Vietnam, and Korea. Then i suppose it would be up to you to show how each of those conflicts was justified and entered into "for good reason"
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Stonehenge
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: ballsalsa]
#22441579 - 10/27/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Korea was an attack on one of our allies, completely different than obumble going out and starting a war or continuing one that had been negotiated to an end. Desert storm was much the same, invasion of Kuwait, grenada was a quick operation, not a nation rebuilding effort though I think we should not have done it. Vietnam was a stupid move and don't forget you guys hero jfk was in on that. But we did not stay there and did pull out, unlike Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Kosovo was a limited operation by nato, one of the few not instigated by usa.
So no, there was little comparison though you could say Nixon and jfk were almost as bad on foreign wars, not quite as bad. But even they did much better managing the economy and the debt.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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ballsalsa
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: Stonehenge]
#22441624 - 10/27/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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where did iraq get the weapons it used to invade Kuwait? What was it using those weapons for during the previous decade?
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Stonehenge
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: ballsalsa]
#22441674 - 10/27/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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What has that to do with obumble's war crimes?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: ballsalsa]
#22441695 - 10/27/15 07:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: so you're saying that you think Obama is more or less on par with the 6 or 8 presidents that came immediately before him?
An Obowma defender uses more sophistry:
Logical Fallacy: Tu quoque ("you too"). This is the fallacy of defending an error in one's reasoning by pointing out that one's opponent has made the same error. An error is still an error, regardless of how many people make it. For example, "They accuse us of making unjustified assertions. But they asserted a lot of things, too!"
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ballsalsa
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: ballsalsa]
#22441707 - 10/27/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: None of the previous presidents sent our military off to fight for no good reason like the present goofball. Except shrub which is why he is about on the same level of being a bad president.
I would think that that is debatable. Someone might point out Kosovo, Desert Storm, Grenada, Vietnam, and Korea. Then i suppose it would be up to you to show how each of those conflicts was justified and entered into "for good reason"
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Korea was an attack on one of our allies, completely different than obumble going out and starting a war or continuing one that had been negotiated to an end. Desert storm was much the same, invasion of Kuwait
Quote:
ballsalsa said: where did iraq get the weapons it used to invade Kuwait? What was it using those weapons for during the previous decade?
We were discussing the "good reasons" for going to war. You mentioned invasions of our allies as a good reason. I asked where iraq got the weapons and what they were doing with them because if the answers to those questions indicated that iraq was our ally, then one has to wonder if it really was a good idea to invade our ally for invading our ally
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starfire_xes
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: ballsalsa]
#22442189 - 10/27/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: None of the previous presidents sent our military off to fight for no good reason like the present goofball. Except shrub which is why he is about on the same level of being a bad president.
I would think that that is debatable. Someone might point out Kosovo, Desert Storm, Grenada, Vietnam, and Korea. Then i suppose it would be up to you to show how each of those conflicts was justified and entered into "for good reason"
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Korea was an attack on one of our allies, completely different than obumble going out and starting a war or continuing one that had been negotiated to an end. Desert storm was much the same, invasion of Kuwait
Quote:
ballsalsa said: where did iraq get the weapons it used to invade Kuwait? What was it using those weapons for during the previous decade?
We were discussing the "good reasons" for going to war. You mentioned invasions of our allies as a good reason. I asked where iraq got the weapons and what they were doing with them because if the answers to those questions indicated that iraq was our ally, then one has to wonder if it really was a good idea to invade our ally for invading our ally
Iraq had a massive inventory of Russian equipment, much of it obtained during the Iraq-Iran war. Iraq also had the most sophisticated air defense system (russian) over Baghdad, which the US had seen nothing like previously, except during the Vietnam war.
I don't think anything except desert storm and korea where justified; Vietnam definitely wasn't, but that was a democratic hard-on against communism and continued support of the French Colonials that got us into that mess. Vietnam was a Democratic fuck up all the way. And still the US didn't learn.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: starfire_xes]
#22442394 - 10/27/15 09:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war#Foreign_Materiel_Acquisition_and_Bear_Spares
Quote:
Foreign Materiel Acquisition and Bear Spares
With the UN-imposed embargo on warring parties, and with the Soviet Union opposing the conflict, Iraqi engineers found it increasingly difficult to repair and replace hardware damaged in battle.[25][26] According to Kenneth Timmerman, "Saddam did foresee one immediate consequence of his invasion of Iran: the suspension of arms supplies from the USSR."[4]
When he launched his attack, the Soviets were busy playing games in Iran. They were not amused that the Iraqis upset their plans. For generations the KGB had been working to penetrate Iran's Shiite clergy. In February 1979, when Ayatollah Khomeini took power and threw the Americans out of Iran, the Soviets stood to gain more than they had ever believed possible. ... KGB boss Yuri Andropov [had] little difficulty in convincing Brezhnev and Kosygin to agree to an embargo on arms to Iraq... p. 83-84
The United States assisted Iraq through a military aid program known as "Bear Spares", whereby the U.S. military "made sure that spare parts and ammunition for Soviet or Soviet-style weaponry were available to countries which sought to reduce their dependence on the Soviets for defense needs."[16] According to Howard Teicher's court sworn declaration:
If the "Bear Spares" were manufactured outside the United States, then the U.S. could arrange for the provision of these weapons to a third country without direct involvement. Israel, for example, had a very large stockpile of Soviet weaponry and ammunition captured during its various wars. At the suggestion of the United States, the Israelis would transfer the spare parts and weapons to third countries... Similarly, Egypt manufactured weapons and spare parts from Soviet designs and provided these weapons and ammunition to the Iraqis and other countries.
Little today is known about this program as details remain scarce. Chemical and biological exports Iraq purchased 8 strains of anthrax from the United States in 1985, according to British biological weapons expert David Kelly.[27] The Iraqi military settled on the American Type Culture Collection strain 14578 as the exclusive strain for use as a biological weapon, according to Charles Duelfer.[28]
On February 9, 1994, Senator Riegle delivered a report -commonly known at the Riegle Report- in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[29]
The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."[30]
Donald Riegle, Chairman of the Senate committee that authored the aforementioned Riegle Report, said:
U.N. inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs. ... The executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control sent Iraq 14 separate agents "with biological warfare significance," according to Riegle's investigators.[31]
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zorbman
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#22442445 - 10/27/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Either Obama knew or is grossly incompetent.
Today, our ally Saudi Arabia also evidently bombed a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Yemen!
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/world/doctors-without-borders-yemen-hospital/index.html
I'm not a big believer in coincidences of this type.
It reminds me of when France did not give permission for the U.S. to fly over their air space to bomb Libya in 1986. Well, their embassy was "accidently" bombed shortly afterwards.
Le Oops!
Yes, these people are that petty and know exactly what they're doing.
Doctors Without Borders has been a very vocal critic of the secretive TPP trade deal. There's your motive right there.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (10/27/15 10:21 PM)
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: zorbman]
#22443517 - 10/28/15 06:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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U.S. Imperialism dates back at least to Kennedy.
Quote:
zorbman said: Doctors Without Borders has been a very vocal critic of the secretive TPP trade deal. There's your motive right there.
To expand on that. The TPP could raise the prices of medicine all over the world. Currently there's nations that have laxer IP laws on pharmaceuticals then the U.S. One of the big things being negotiated in the TPP was foreign companies adopting U.S. IP laws on meds.
I'm still waking up. I hope the above makes sense.
Though, bombing MSF because they've been critical of the TPP sounds a bit to me.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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zorbman
blarrr



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Quote:
Though, bombing MSF because they've been critical of the TPP sounds a bit to me.
The U.S. has destroyed entire countries for opposing its will. A tiny outfit like DWB means nothing to them.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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starfire_xes
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Re: Another war crime by obumble [Re: zorbman]
#22446330 - 10/28/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Now lets apply Occams Razor to this problem. What is more likely:
1) There was some vast need for revenge against doctors without borders or
2) Isis was running a command and control center out of the hospital, using its protections to shield a high value target?
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