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OfflineThanatos10
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Meditation or Psychedelics? * 2
    #22429900 - 10/24/15 10:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Pardon my spelling if that seems off.

In short I'm kind of stuck on where to go from here. It seems like psyches keep getting pushed onto me as the only way to "see". BUt the thing is, I don't really like taking things that could affect my perception. Alcohol and pot didn't really mesh well with me and I'm afraid of what such a sudden thing like that would do.

SO far I'm doing meditation and it has been working very well for me. I've been becoming more aware of certain things that I had not known before and realizing things I never had before. I know some people say it is the slow way of doing things but it suits me just fine. It is just that the nagging feeling comes into my head that I am inferior for not wanting to partake in psyches. Is that true? Does it make me inferior for choosing not to do them?


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #22429931 - 10/24/15 10:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No need to feel guilty for not doing psyches. You have gotten the message; you can hang up the phone

"Psychedelic experience is only a glimpse of genuine mystical insight, but a glimpse which can be matured and deepened by the various ways of meditation in which drugs are no longer necessary or useful. If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen..." -alan watts

I have "gotten the message" many times over. I just am sort of irresponsible with my use. I still use heavily in the midst of my meditation/yoga/reading daily but its beyond reasonable or needed at this point. Its abuse and I am open enough to admit that

Once could be enough. I would say do what you feel right is for you. I think for many, 1-5 times is more than enough. But I find a light trip once a month would be ideal (for me). I blow farrrrrrr past that number


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InvisibleNemodeus
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22430458 - 10/25/15 03:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Its not about speed, remember the tortoise won the race.

Psychedelics can be a useful tool if used with discipline, but they can also be a distraction.

Whoever is pressuring you to use them has been misguided.


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Nemodeus]
    #22430654 - 10/25/15 06:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

some wonderful replies.

peace-
J.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Nemodeus]
    #22431225 - 10/25/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nemodeus said:
Its not about speed, remember the tortoise won the race.

Psychedelics can be a useful tool if used with discipline, but they can also be a distraction.

Whoever is pressuring you to use them has been misguided.



exactly. The second line in this post sums it up the best. For me it is 100% a distraction. Used responsibly, I would say it helps quite a lot


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #22431257 - 10/25/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Psychedelics just aren't for some people -- a lot of people, actually.  That type of person, which it sounds like you are, should definitely not take them.  I've heard of people for whom the only substance they could take constructively -- out of all of them -- was cannabis.  And I've heard of others for whom cannabis is no good.  So don't worry about that, you're definitely not alone.

I'd say if you're getting positive results from the meditation techniques, focus on that fully.  There are an awful lot of people on this very subforum who have long since ditched psychs for meditation because they are a hindrance to the results meditation can generate.

Keep on keepin' on. :thumbup:


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22431839 - 10/25/15 12:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You don't need to fix something that isn't broken.  If meditation is doing you good then pay no mind to psychedelics.  If they keep entering your mind-scape, maybe trying to come to terms with why you don't want to try them can be helpful.  They are not like alcohol or weed ime so to draw an opinion based off those substances would be improper, though drawing an opinion based on drastically impairing your baseline-awareness is completely proper imo :thumbup:

When people refuse to try psychedelics and they say they don't want to try them because of xy and z I typically (not always) believe they are really just afraid of what they may find in their psyche and spout some excuse instead. 

Any research on mushrooms will yield plenty of articles on the positive effects they can produce on the psyche, so to not even consider them as a means of experience is questionable to me. :shrug:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: cez] * 1
    #22432417 - 10/25/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

How do I put it...it just doesn't sync with me. That's really the only way I can explain it. That and that bit about it drastically affecting my baseline awarenss. I know I wouldn't be able to handle that sort of thing.

I understand others my feel differently but in my case it was more about ego. It was my ego wanting to feel superior and I thought psyches would be the way to do it. This isn't the first time I had to reign it in. It's an absolute refusal to be subordinate to anyone. But when I meditate that falls away. All of t does, and in the stillness and the time that follows, things come to me.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22432490 - 10/25/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The above posters have it right. IMO if I were you, I would keep heading in the direction that you are heading in, and take a very low dose psych in about 6 months. For me, a low dose trip every once in a while is more than enough. Thats just me tho

And returning to psyches affter a few years was incredibly helpful. I spent 1-2 years mediting and basically being drug free


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Invisiblechampinhom
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #22434508 - 10/26/15 01:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:


SO far I'm doing meditation and it has been working very well for me. I've been becoming more aware of certain things that I had not known before and realizing things I never had before.




With a situation like this, who needs psyches? Psyches are not superior to meditation at all. They are for people who, like Mckenna, couldn't make any headway with meditation.

Meditation is the expressway. Psyches are just one of the access ramps and a dangerous one at that.


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
Saul Bellow

“People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing

Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: champinhom]
    #22435589 - 10/26/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

champinhom said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:


SO far I'm doing meditation and it has been working very well for me. I've been becoming more aware of certain things that I had not known before and realizing things I never had before.




With a situation like this, who needs psyches? Psyches are not superior to meditation at all. They are for people who, like Mckenna, couldn't make any headway with meditation.

Meditation is the expressway. Psyches are just one of the access ramps and a dangerous one at that.



I sort of agree and disagree with this. They are all tools. If you have a nail, use a hammer. If you need to screw something in, use a screwdriver

The issue seems to be that when all you have a is hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. And by this I mean that people typically align themselves with only one of these methods. Instead, just learn to embrace both :shrug:


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: topdog82]
    #22435629 - 10/26/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

And to add on to what I said before; there have been points in life where meditation hasn't done anything for me. But psyches have. You can't make such bold claims unless you have experience and science to show that meditation is capable of producing ALL the states a psychedelics expereince can with the same magnitude in ALL people in ALL periods of life


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #22435679 - 10/26/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not saying that. I personally don't mind whatever people do as long as it doesn't bother me. But in this case I just seem rather drawn to this method. I personally don't like taking things to produce effects. That's just me (and I have had experiences with a number of certain substances). Nothing felt more natural, "at home", or more drawn to than meditation for me.

I recognize that everyone has their thing. It's just not mine. The trouble with both methods is that it affects everyone differently, so it's hard if not impossible to have an objective state on it.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22435686 - 10/26/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

And for arguments sake let's say I did decide to try it. I don't have any way of getting access to them and I don't have a place to do them if I did.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisiblechampinhom
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: topdog82]
    #22435749 - 10/26/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
They are all tools. If you have a nail, use a hammer. If you need to screw something in, use a screwdriver

The issue seems to be that when all you have a is hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. And by this I mean that people typically align themselves with only one of these methods. Instead, just learn to embrace both :shrug:




:thumbup:


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
Saul Bellow

“People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing

Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin


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Invisiblechampinhom
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22435799 - 10/26/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Pardon my spelling if that seems off.

In short I'm kind of stuck on where to go from here. It seems like psyches keep getting pushed onto me as the only way to "see". But the thing is, I don't really like taking things that could affect my perception. Alcohol and pot didn't really mesh well with me and I'm afraid of what such a sudden thing like that would do.

SO far I'm doing meditation and it has been working very well for me. I've been becoming more aware of certain things that I had not known before and realizing things I never had before. I know some people say it is the slow way of doing things but it suits me just fine. It is just that the nagging feeling comes into my head that I am inferior for not wanting to partake in psyches. Is that true? Does it make me inferior for choosing not to do them?




It occurs to me to ask you why, if you are so drawn to the drugless approach, do you come with this query to a site that is dedicated to the pursuit of happiness through the ingestion of substances? It would make more sense to go to some non duality forum--there are dozens of these. Someone there will be much more likely to encourage, support and advise you on your preferred  modality.

My guess is that you came here because you are wobbling a bit in your devotion to the high and dry method and might like a little push in the other direction.


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
Saul Bellow

“People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing

Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: champinhom]
    #22436050 - 10/26/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

champinhom said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Pardon my spelling if that seems off.

In short I'm kind of stuck on where to go from here. It seems like psyches keep getting pushed onto me as the only way to "see". But the thing is, I don't really like taking things that could affect my perception. Alcohol and pot didn't really mesh well with me and I'm afraid of what such a sudden thing like that would do.

SO far I'm doing meditation and it has been working very well for me. I've been becoming more aware of certain things that I had not known before and realizing things I never had before. I know some people say it is the slow way of doing things but it suits me just fine. It is just that the nagging feeling comes into my head that I am inferior for not wanting to partake in psyches. Is that true? Does it make me inferior for choosing not to do them?




It occurs to me to ask you why, if you are so drawn to the drugless approach, do you come with this query to a site that is dedicated to the pursuit of happiness through the ingestion of substances? It would make more sense to go to some non duality forum--there are dozens of these. Someone there will be much more likely to encourage, support and advise you on your preferred  modality.

My guess is that you came here because you are wobbling a bit in your devotion to the high and dry method and might like a little push in the other direction.




The problem is that i don't know of other forums like that. I just came here because this is the only one that I know of and it was because I came here to resolve a previous issue regarding psyches. I'm only here because I don't know of any other ones.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22436129 - 10/26/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
And for arguments sake let's say I did decide to try it. I don't have any way of getting access to them and I don't have a place to do them if I did.




How are they being pushed on you if you don't have access to them?


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: cez]
    #22436282 - 10/26/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Certain people I know online, plus a few other "alternative media" websites.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Meditation or Psychedelics? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22437548 - 10/26/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You need to take your insight and meditation with you after your psychadelic experience;


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