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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Divine Love vs. Egoic Love 2
#22425505 - 10/24/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Egoic love means I will tell you, you are special if you tell me I am special. It works wonders for a while then it collapses because it is based on a lie. One false move and the imperfection is revealed and the search continues for the perfection OUT THERE rather than internally.
Once you recognize The Other as Divine, you cannot unrecognize it as in an egoic relationship. The Other need not be or do anything to please you or to add to your power. Their being alone is sufficient unto itself.
In an egoic relationship, The Other must prove to you time and again how worthy they are by boosting your esteem, by bringing you pleasure and novelty. This cannot continue indefinitely. It is an impossibility. At some point, if one cannot find another to take them to the assumed next level of stimulation and personality stroking, they give up and settle. This is the beginning of death.
The alternate path is that of recognizing The Divine in Others. That alone is sufficient. Nothing need be added. No personality quirks or shortcomings can change this because The Other is no longer being judged. Their radiance has been witnessed.
That which has been Seen cannot be unseen. And when one sees The Divine in themselves, they no longer need approach The Other as a beggar. "Kind sir/madam, can you please fill this empty hole inside of me."
No! Only once you are full and complete can you come to The Other seeking neither power nor dominance, but only sharing authentically, honestly and fully.
Do that and ALL questions are answered. Not answered as in cosmic mysteries solved, but as in the questions themselves fall away and are no longer important.
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (10/24/15 12:57 AM)
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MMG
Artesano



Registered: 07/29/15
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Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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I agree with this perception on love. Nice post
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: MMG]
#22425525 - 10/24/15 12:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Many members predicted that one day I would cross-over from the skeptic side to the fluffy side. Uh oh!
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presentusthefuture
Stranger


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 127
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Phenomenal post.
And as a slight tangent, this is why you can either choose women, or you can choose God. But not both.
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TameMe
Stranger



Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 2,734
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Egoic love means I will tell you, you are special if you tell me I am special. It works wonders for a while then it collapses because it is based on a lie. One false move and the imperfection is revealed and the search continues for the perfection OUT THERE rather than internally.
Once you recognize The Other as Divine, you cannot unrecognize it as in an egoic relationship. The Other need not be or do anything to please you or to add to your power. Their being alone is sufficient unto itself.
In an egoic relationship, The Other must prove to you time and again how worthy they are by boosting your esteem, by bringing you pleasure and novelty. This cannot continue indefinitely. It is an impossibility. At some point, if one cannot find another to take them to the assumed next level of stimulation and personality stroking, they give up and settle. This is the beginning of death.
The alternate path is that of recognizing The Divine in Others. That alone is sufficient. Nothing need be added. No personality quirks or shortcomings can change this because The Other is no longer being judged. Their radiance has been witnessed.
That which has been Seen cannot be unseen. And when one sees The Divine in themselves, they no longer need approach The Other as a beggar. "Kind sir/madam, can you please fill this empty hole inside of me."
No! Only once you are full and complete can you come to The Other seeking neither power nor dominance, but only sharing authentically, honestly and fully.
Do that and ALL questions are answered. Not answered as in cosmic mysteries solved, but as in the questions themselves fall away and are no longer important.
I have begun to think such a realization is actually a rationalization meant for the ego to protect itself from attachment and to be satisfied with the denial of ID desires.
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: TameMe]
#22426213 - 10/24/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Love. It's what makes a Subaru a Subaru.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: Dark_Star]
#22426218 - 10/24/15 08:36 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can certainly get better traction with AWD.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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I won't buy a car without it.
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
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Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Did you write that?
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Egoic love means I will tell you, you are special if you tell me I am special. It works wonders for a while then it collapses because it is based on a lie. One false move and the imperfection is revealed and the search continues for the perfection OUT THERE rather than internally.
Once you recognize The Other as Divine, you cannot unrecognize it as in an egoic relationship. The Other need not be or do anything to please you or to add to your power. Their being alone is sufficient unto itself.
In an egoic relationship, The Other must prove to you time and again how worthy they are by boosting your esteem, by bringing you pleasure and novelty. This cannot continue indefinitely. It is an impossibility. At some point, if one cannot find another to take them to the assumed next level of stimulation and personality stroking, they give up and settle. This is the beginning of death.
The alternate path is that of recognizing The Divine in Others. That alone is sufficient. Nothing need be added. No personality quirks or shortcomings can change this because The Other is no longer being judged. Their radiance has been witnessed.
That which has been Seen cannot be unseen. And when one sees The Divine in themselves, they no longer need approach The Other as a beggar. "Kind sir/madam, can you please fill this empty hole inside of me."
No! Only once you are full and complete can you come to The Other seeking neither power nor dominance, but only sharing authentically, honestly and fully.
Do that and ALL questions are answered. Not answered as in cosmic mysteries solved, but as in the questions themselves fall away and are no longer important.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: yeah]
#22429936 - 10/24/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
yeah said: Did you write that?
I have officially crossed over. 
Blame it on a woman.
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Mojo baby!
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
yeah said: Did you write that?
I have officially crossed over. 
Blame it on a woman.
I don't think it's her fault, this time.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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you used to be cool.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: White Beard]
#22431117 - 10/25/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
yeah said: Did you write that?
I have officially crossed over. 
Blame it on a woman.
Is this woman the one we are familiar with or a new one?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: cez]
#22431245 - 10/25/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Same story; new chapter. Available at Amazon.com for $19.95 hardcover edition.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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How much signed?
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
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What does "The Divine" look like?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Loc: Under the C
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Same story; new chapter. Available at Amazon.com for $19.95 hardcover edition.
You finagled your way back into her grace?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: cez]
#22431623 - 10/25/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe.
We spoke briefly the other day on the phone. She was on a 5 minute break from a philosophy class at the community college, so the conversation was quite rushed. This was the first time we talked in three months and it was positive as far as it went. IOW - no restraining order! She said she was deliberately incommunicado to see how I would deal with my crazy episode and emotional upheaval on my own without leaning on her for support - a very wise woman.
I will know more when she calls back, which will probably not be for a week or two. This woman is very cautious and guarded and likes to take lots of time to process things whereas I blurt out whatever I am feeling at the moment without thinking.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: Jaegar]
#22431675 - 10/25/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jaegar said: What does "The Divine" look like?

Seriously though, I cannot explain it. It wasn't like rainbows or auras. It was a complete and total perceptual shift and it sure seemed "real". Either that or I am totally
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: How much signed?
It is hard to sign a book with a straitjacket on. If you visit me at The Home, please bring Gummi Bears.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I am totally 
This.
She is likely like any other woman and will likely break your heart again, and maybe take some of your money. You have just built up an ideal in your mind. She is a human being like anyone else, stop thinking she is a god!
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: She said she was deliberately incommunicado to see how I would deal with my crazy episode and emotional upheaval on my own without leaning on her for support - a very wise woman.
She's shit testing you.
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
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cool, dude
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yeah


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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: White Beard]
#22431780 - 10/25/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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are you familiar with how OC feels about her? It could be worse
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Maybe.
We spoke briefly the other day on the phone. She was on a 5 minute break from a philosophy class at the community college, so the conversation was quite rushed. This was the first time we talked in three months and it was positive as far as it went. IOW - no restraining order! She said she was deliberately incommunicado to see how I would deal with my crazy episode and emotional upheaval on my own without leaning on her for support - a very wise woman.
I will know more when she calls back, which will probably not be for a week or two. This woman is very cautious and guarded and likes to take lots of time to process things whereas I blurt out whatever I am feeling at the moment without thinking.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: yeah]
#22431801 - 10/25/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes I do. He's totally hooked and she's going to train him like a dog. He displays a lot of emotion and instead of showing respect or understanding, she shames him, cuts all contact and disappears for months. Contacts OC out of the blue and he comes running back like the good little doggy he is. She knows he's hooked.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: White Beard]
#22431823 - 10/25/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
She is likely like any other woman
This is true, of course. It is not that she is special per se, but for whatever reason, she triggered some major change/shift in me as I relaxed totally in her presence. So no, not worship or putting on a pedestal because it is not about appearance or personality. To put it more mystically, there was an instant energy match that I have never before experienced.
My best male friend commented that we seemed perfect together and that he had never seen me so happy in the 16 years he has known me and I told him just being with her was the best night of my life.
Who wouldn't want more of that?
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: White Beard]
#22431830 - 10/25/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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White Beard, I sympathize with your position and OC's, both. I do not think she is trying to manipulate him. On the other hand, if you'll remember the Seinfeld episode with George, she has all of the "hand" at this point, which could prove problematic.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Well, most relationships start off picture perfect, yet still devolve into shit for some reason, so I wouldn't expect that feeling to last even if you two do manage to be together.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: White Beard]
#22431857 - 10/25/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said: Yes I do. He's totally hooked and she's going to train him like a dog. He displays a lot of emotion and instead of showing respect or understanding, she shames him, cuts all contact and disappears for months. Contacts OC out of the blue and he comes running back like the good little doggy he is. She knows he's hooked.
That is one perspective - and there may be truth in that as it happens all the time. However, I would likely have rejected her had the situation been reversed as would most sane people.
She cut contact because I came on like an obsessive stalker and scared the hell out of her. I think it quite positive that she is willing to look beyond my outrageous behavior. Trying to protect herself from a crazy man is not what I would deem as manipulative.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Well, I haven't read the outburst but it's hard to judge. However, maybe she shamed you in such a way when you opened up emotionally that it hurt your self-esteem and you started thinking that you are 'crazy' or a 'stalker' and she is being extremely generous by taking you back and you're the unworthy one, when in reality what you said wasn't even that crazy. But like I said, I didn't read it and maybe it was genuinely crazy.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: White Beard]
#22431889 - 10/25/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said: Well, most relationships start off picture perfect, yet still devolve into shit for some reason, so I wouldn't expect that feeling to last even if you two do manage to be together.
Once again, I agree. The honeymoon phase of any relationship will always end, but if the connection is deep enough, then people can more easily weather day-to-day frictions. But then, this is what I am hoping to discover - can I hold onto The Vision or will it dissipate?
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: can I hold onto The Vision or will it dissipate?
I think everything eventually dissipates.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: White Beard, I sympathize with your position and OC's, both. I do not think she is trying to manipulate him. On the other hand, if you'll remember the Seinfeld episode with George, she has all of the "hand" at this point, which could prove problematic.
Yes, there is definitely a power imbalance that I will need to address.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: White Beard]
#22431906 - 10/25/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said: Well, I haven't read the outburst but it's hard to judge. However, maybe she shamed you in such a way when you opened up emotionally that it hurt your self-esteem and you started thinking that you are 'crazy' or a 'stalker' and she is being extremely generous by taking you back and you're the unworthy one, when in reality what you said wasn't even that crazy. But like I said, I didn't read it and maybe it was genuinely crazy.
Trust me, it was!
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
White Beard said: Well, I haven't read the outburst but it's hard to judge. However, maybe she shamed you in such a way when you opened up emotionally that it hurt your self-esteem and you started thinking that you are 'crazy' or a 'stalker' and she is being extremely generous by taking you back and you're the unworthy one, when in reality what you said wasn't even that crazy. But like I said, I didn't read it and maybe it was genuinely crazy.
Trust me, it was! 
Has anyone given you a second opinion (besides her, of course)?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: White Beard] 1
#22431976 - 10/25/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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My shrink. I was tested after my emotional breakdown and my serotonin levels were so far below normal that I was barely functional. I was experiencing enormous electric shocks going through my body many times a day for weeks along with extreme mood swings, anxiety and crying jags.
Every single issue of rejection and abandonment in my life exploded all at once two days after my meeting with Haley. The doc said I had a (non-technical term) nervous breakdown due to grief and PTSD. I had not dated in 12 years since my exgf's daughter overdosed and died and my gf left me. I had shutdown completely and never fully processed it.
I first told Haley that it was too much and that I wanted nothing to do with her because I would not allow myself to be vulnerable again, then the next day I told her I loved her and practically asked her to marry me after only 8 hours together. Crazy enough?
Here is the deal though. Everything I went through was necessary to clear my past and make me ready for a real relationship - even if it is not with her. It was a total nightmare and the most painful thing I have ever experienced, yet I am in a much better space now than maybe I ever have been.
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (10/25/15 01:40 PM)
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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well good for you. Maybe it will work out well for you. But remember, shrinks make money off of you being crazy so of course they'll think you're crazy. I recommend getting a friend's opinion on the matter.
Edited by White Beard (10/25/15 02:57 PM)
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
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sounds good to me OC i'm happy to hear that this has precipitated positive changes in your life best wishes!
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: deff]
#22432248 - 10/25/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: sounds good to me OC i'm happy to hear that this has precipitated positive changes in your life best wishes! 
I concur.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Log in to view attachment
The mystery of it all - an OC original.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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I like that a lot! Here's a poem of mine that's on topic:
Robotic Love
Who loves not love? The poet inquires It goes to the loftiest heights! What bad ever comes A full life requires Someone having it there in their sights! Though others are not So rosy about it I've heard it called 'romantic fog' Or else just at best Temporary, so quit All this chatter 'bout kissing a frog And then it goes farther Harsh, blunt, is it truth? An amalgam of sex and sentimentality I'm not so sure It isn't forsooth But I've never been one for banality When one has seen love Go as haywire as I Have seen it go far in the past One wonders a bit And then thinks by an by It's just a mechanism, but vast But I have to suppose That in my good conscience I couldn't dismiss such sublime Thoughts and emotions There isn't a science Of love, as there isn't of rhyme
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Nice. 
Thanks for sharing!
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: White Beard]
#22432453 - 10/25/15 03:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said: Well, I haven't read the outburst but it's hard to judge. However, maybe she shamed you in such a way when you opened up emotionally that it hurt your self-esteem and you started thinking that you are 'crazy' or a 'stalker' and she is being extremely generous by taking you back and you're the unworthy one, when in reality what you said wasn't even that crazy. But like I said, I didn't read it and maybe it was genuinely crazy.
Oh, it was crazy.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (10/25/15 04:04 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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"Where do they teach you to talk like this? In some Panama City sailor wana hump hump bar or is this getaway day, and your last shot at his whiskey. Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here." ~ Jack Nicholson
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 17 days
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: My shrink. I was tested after my emotional breakdown and my serotonin levels were so far below normal that I was barely functional. I was experiencing enormous electric shocks going through my body many times a day for weeks along with extreme mood swings, anxiety and crying jags.
Every single issue of rejection and abandonment in my life exploded all at once two days after my meeting with Haley. The doc said I had a (non-technical term) nervous breakdown due to grief and PTSD. I had not dated in 12 years since my exgf's daughter overdosed and died and my gf left me. I had shutdown completely and never fully processed it.
I first told Haley that it was too much and that I wanted nothing to do with her because I would not allow myself to be vulnerable again, then the next day I told her I loved her and practically asked her to marry me after only 8 hours together. Crazy enough?
Here is the deal though. Everything I went through was necessary to clear my past and make me ready for a real relationship - even if it is not with her. It was a total nightmare and the most painful thing I have ever experienced, yet I am in a much better space now than maybe I ever have been.
Out of a morbid sense of curiousness, did your shrink suggest you contact your "Divine Love" interest again, or to stay away? Either way, what was their rationale?
TIA.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant



Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Your truth will set you free.... seems you've made great strides in being whole again. Staying open, vulnerable, connecting, yanno, anyone you can do that with is your family.... having some around really helps with feeling isolated.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Divine Love vs. Egoic Love [Re: CosmicJoke]
#22448060 - 10/29/15 07:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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1000 drummers are better than 1 drummer.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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