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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. * 1
    #22424776 - 10/23/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Behold the best fruits of this mornings research: interesting links at the bottom

RR: "Wood ash can also be used in place of lime to raise pH for casing layers and such."

"I was the one that ran the trials with the wood ashes pasteurization method as part of our diversified ag program for some of the African countries. Actually to my surprise, the wood ashes method worked better than any of the other methods we had tried, with better BE than lime or soap or hot water or steam. The fruit bodies were better shaped and better shelf life, in short they were perfect. The only real difference was they fruited a couple days later than the other methods, around 22 days for the oyster strains we were running (4 strains) while the lime and steam ones fruited at 18 or 19 days."
(perhaps the quote above indicates that the nutrients found in ash are beneficial to mycelium/fruits?)

I saw RR claim that the ph of wood ash is around 10 (this likely varies based on what kind of wood was burned however. as well as how it was burned) which is pretty close to the ph of hydrated lime. (which is 12.4)

Some ash also contains size-able amounts of calcium carbonate, (wiki) which is an important ingredient in gypsum according to RR. Maybe ash could replace both lime and gypsum in some instances. (a form of lime is in ash) the only thing it appears to be missing is sulfur :shrug: I wonder which ingredient in gypsum it is that keeps grains from sticking together? perhaps trying that in its pure form would be better in certain applications?

I was thinking it would probably make an effective/cheap alternative to lime when adjusting the ph of casing. With the added bonus of ash repelling bugs (hell, even if you don't use it for anything else maybe use it to treat fungus gnats and other pests that pop up) It may also be useful in providing additional nutrients. (it contains potassium..idk if mycelium needs that or not)

Might make a good additive to woodlover substrates in small amounts as well. :shrug: Perhaps I could test these ideas better with a woodlover. Speaking of woodlovers, ash would be a great thing to use if you get bug/slug problems in outdoor beds. People say ash is a potent repellent

wiki on ash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_ash
30 uses for ash: https://humblelore.wordpress.com/2013/03/18/30-uses-for-wood-ashes-you-never-thought-of/
potash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potash


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22424826 - 10/23/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So that dude was using it to cold pasteurize straw?  Cool.

This is literally wood ashe, like what's left over in the fire pit after burning wood.  Could probably get a shitton for free from some slash burners in lumber towns.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22424852 - 10/23/15 09:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
So that dude was using it to cold pasteurize straw?  Cool.

This is literally wood ashe, like what's left over in the fire pit after burning wood.  Could probably get a shitton for free from some slash burners in lumber towns.



yep, just fireplace ash. Apparently charcoal is also a byproduct of fireplaces but I haven't read up on that yet.

But yeah, stuff would be free/easy to make a batch anytime. You probably wouldn't need much for the applications I'm thinking of


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22424862 - 10/23/15 09:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I wonder how much is needed for cold straw pasteurization.  There's a shitton of ashe in my BBQ, and I gotta do something with all that straw I got that I keep turning to green :smile:


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22424866 - 10/23/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

charcoal is easy to make.
just put some wood inside of a metal container with a small hole in it and heat it
until smoke comes out of the hole. when it stops smoking it's done.


--------------------
Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22424878 - 10/23/15 09:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
charcoal is easy to make.
just put some wood inside of a metal container with a small hole in it and heat it
until smoke comes out of the hole. when it stops smoking it's done.



I thought the whole point was to burn wood in the absence of oxygen? Wouldn't that small hole muck things up?

I don't even know if charcoal would be useful for mycology, but you never know.

edit: holy shit, you can use charcoal to melt iron. ash and charcoal are surprisingly useful substances!! did anyone check out the link to 30 uses for ash I posted in OP?


Edited by Psilosopherr (10/23/15 09:29 PM)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22424910 - 10/23/15 09:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"One additional use of charcoal was rediscovered recently in horticulture. Although American gardeners have been using charcoal for a short while, research on Terra preta soils in the Amazon has found the widespread use of biochar by pre-Columbian natives to turn unproductive soil into carbon rich soil. The technique may find modern application, both to improve soils and as a means of carbon sequestration."

on the charcoal wiki page now :yesnod:
this is oddly interesting


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22424920 - 10/23/15 09:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

well there has to be a hole for gas to escape.
else the lid will pop off.

it works, i did this several times with cotton to make charcloth.


--------------------
Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22424930 - 10/23/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

oh and for what it's worth:
the woodlovers syringes i ordered (cyan and ovoids) all had
a bit of charcoal added to the mix, according to the vendor this is
to help suppress bacterial contams.


--------------------
Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22424949 - 10/23/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
oh and for what it's worth:
the woodlovers syringes i ordered (cyan and ovoids) all had
a bit of charcoal added to the mix, according to the vendor this is
to help suppress bacterial contams.



I forgot all about that practice!

People always told me it was to make it look like you could visually confirm the presence of spores in syringes. (since noobs always think its just plain water)

I'm sure it could very well have two functions though. especially after what I've been reading about its medical uses

and thanks for the clarification on charcoal production. That makes sense now


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22425011 - 10/23/15 10:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

this calls for some experimentation i think.

maybe 2 pf jars, one with and one without charcoal, purposefully infected
to see if there is any difference in the speed of the spread of bacteria.
if it really does work it might be a nice thing to add to homemade syringes.


--------------------
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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22425083 - 10/23/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochar

this biochar stuff is really interesting. Seems like a great addition to bio-remediation or whatever that was called.

"Biochar is recognised as offering a number of benefits for soil health. Many benefits are related to the extremely porous nature of biochar. This structure is found to be very effective at retaining both water and water-soluble nutrients. Soil biologist Elaine Ingham indicates[29] the extreme suitability of biochar as a habitat for many beneficial soil micro organisms. She points out that when pre charged with these beneficial organisms biochar becomes an extremely effective soil amendment promoting good soil, and in turn plant, health."

"Pollutants such as metals and pesticides seep into soil and contaminate food supplies, reducing the amount of land suitable for agricultural production. Studies have reported positive effects from biochar on crop production in degraded and nutrient–poor soils.[42] Biochar can be designed with specific qualities to target distinct properties of soils.[43] Biochar reduces leaching of critical nutrients, creates a higher crop uptake of nutrients, and provides greater soil availability of nutrients.[44] At 10% levels biochar reduced contaminant levels in plants by up to 80%, while reducing total chlordane and DDX content in the plants by 68 and 79%, respectively.[45] On the other hand, because of its high adsorption capacity, biochar may reduce the efficacy of soil applied pesticides that are needed for weed and pest control.[46][47] High-surface-area biochars may be particularly problematic in this regard; more research into the long-term effects of biochar addition to soil is needed.[46]"

"Students at Stevens Institute of Technology in New Jersey are developing supercapacitors that use electrodes made of biochar.[65] A process developed by University of Florida researchers that removes phosphate from water, also yields methane gas usable as fuel and phosphate-laden carbon suitable for enriching soil.[66]"


Edited by Psilosopherr (10/23/15 10:39 PM)


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22425217 - 10/23/15 11:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Surprised a TC hasn't come in here and schooled y'all about charcoal and spore germination.


--------------------
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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Inocuole]
    #22425252 - 10/23/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:aweohyou: ...so there's no imminent schooling incoming about the ash?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22425255 - 10/23/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I don't know about that. :shrug:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Inocuole]
    #22426773 - 10/24/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"Interesting stuff. I add activated charcoal to my agar when doing specialty experiments such as germinating very old spores or crossing strains. I've noticed healthier mycelium when grown on activated charcoal, but not necessarily faster or more growth.

I've also noticed a decrease in bacterial contamination when charcoal is used, and bacterial colonies that do get started, seem to stall out after a couple of days, then are overran by the mycelium.

I doubt it's the small amount of infrared that is suppressing the bacteria, but who knows?"

This is an RR quote. It is nine years old but still.


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22427283 - 10/24/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
"Interesting stuff. I add activated charcoal to my agar when doing specialty experiments such as germinating very old spores or crossing strains. I've noticed healthier mycelium when grown on activated charcoal, but not necessarily faster or more growth.

I've also noticed a decrease in bacterial contamination when charcoal is used, and bacterial colonies that do get started, seem to stall out after a couple of days, then are overran by the mycelium.

I doubt it's the small amount of infrared that is suppressing the bacteria, but who knows?"

This is an RR quote. It is nine years old but still.




if this is still a question, it should be easy enough to find out.


--------------------
Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22427312 - 10/24/15 01:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

what question?


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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22427318 - 10/24/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
"I doubt it's the small amount of infrared that is suppressing the bacteria, but who knows?"





--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Inocuole]
    #22427347 - 10/24/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

oh right, I'll leave that IR stuff to someone else.

Can't stop reading about biochar and combining it with compost atm. Stuff seems like it would definitely improve both mushroom and plant cultivation. (there wasn't a single post about biochar on the growery!) Especially helpful for outdoor mushroom beds probably.

You can even purchase some for a decent price on amazon. I'd rather make my own but at least I can get some for experiments asap

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0269749110000643


Edited by Psilosopherr (10/26/15 11:15 PM)


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22427653 - 10/24/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: invitro]
    #22427989 - 10/24/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Finally reading about the actual reactors you can construct to make this stuff. Some of them are as simple as a 55 gallon drum with strategically placed holes.

But this one I'm linking you to actually uses the byproducts (syngas and bio-oil) to fuel the fire after the reaction has started. And it does so very simply, no idea about how safe it is though
http://www.biochar-international.org/sites/default/files/backyard_biochar_kiln_instructions.pdf


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22438192 - 10/26/15 10:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

well my biochar is on the way. Almost forgot all about the ash thing :lol:

I'm a little sad this thread didn't get more attention. I suppose I'll just have to wait until results can be posted to get everybodies 2 cents


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Re: Wood Ash: potentially superior lime alternative, and other potential uses. [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #22438349 - 10/26/15 11:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
I suppose I'll just have to wait until results can be posted to get everybodies 2 cents



:yeahthatsright:


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