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OfflineLiquidVisions
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Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? * 1
    #22424258 - 10/23/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Hey everyone I've been researching Schizophrenia on my own time for about a year now. I've always been fascinated by this "illness", however now I don't think that it is an illness. I believe schizophrenia is some sort of evolutionary advantage. If you think about it schizophrenia is almost always genetic. People who have schizophrenia usually have hallucinations and delusions. People in America mostly report their symptoms to be terrible and threatening, yet people in more undeveloped countries report their symptoms to be helpful and good. (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/when-hearing-voices-is-a-good-thing/374863/)

I once saw a nightline about schizophrenia and recall seeing a 6 year old girl talking to imaginary fairies and what not. Think about it if you were a kid wouldn't you love schizophrenia!? It seems as if schizophrenia is the development of a super mind. A magnified imagination. I imagine a delusion can be positive as well. Perhaps you can figure out truths through delusions. I believe the problem is what goes into peoples minds within our society and that is why schizophrenics have negative symptoms here. But say we we're in a perfect society.. wouldn't schizophrenia be amazing? If you had no tv but you can create your own reality right in front of your eyes. I also read another article that pretty much says this.
" I think Chester Brown also discusses this in one of his comics. I read it a million years ago but as I remember it his mom is schizophrenic and he was talking about how he thought it was some dark element of our culture that made such a large percentage of schizophrenic delusions negative, rather than an inherent element in the disease itself. i.e., that one could be schizophrenic without being paranoid."http://ask.metafilter.com/242410/Whats-behind-schizophrenic-hallucinations

What do you guys think could schizophrenia be the evolution of our minds?


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions]
    #22424265 - 10/23/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So does that make cancer an evolutionary advantage too?


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions]
    #22424285 - 10/23/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Posted about this in a different thread, but you may find this relevant to your interests:



Biology lecture delving into schizotypalism, how it develops in families that have a tendency for schizophrenia, and how factors such as hearing voices at the right time is an evolutionary advantage even though schizophrenia is not.

Basic premise is that schizophrenia continues to exist despite being detrimental, because a closely related condition provides an advantage which means that people with the full-blown problematic version are acceptable in the larger scheme of things.

He also touches on issues like OCD and the impact it had on the life of Martin Luther, and how such conditions can be beneficial in the context of religiosity.


short form of the lecture which summarizes strictly the numbers and implications around schizophrenia and schizotypalism.


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OfflineLiquidVisions
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22424294 - 10/23/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No but it is a mutation. Evolution is caused through mutations. In our society schizophrenia could never be an advantage but maybe in a more natural environment it can work is all im suggesting here.


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Invisiblemadmodder
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions]
    #22424308 - 10/23/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Smoking weed with schizos is fun :shrug:


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: madmodder]
    #22425249 - 10/23/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

it's a warning sign of dementia that is really dualistic or a medical coma


Edited by Konyap (10/23/15 11:11 PM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions]
    #22425272 - 10/23/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22425663 - 10/24/15 02:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
So does that make cancer an evolutionary advantage too?




It could.


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Offlineak47myth
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] * 2
    #22425665 - 10/24/15 02:23 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
So does that make cancer an evolutionary advantage too?



What a stupid fucking comparison.

Good job.


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InvisibleJvF
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions] * 6
    #22425669 - 10/24/15 02:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidVisions said:
I believe schizophrenia is some sort of evolutionary advantage. 



Sounds like something a schizophrenic person would say


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OfflineTioWWW999
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: madmodder]
    #22425807 - 10/24/15 04:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

madmodder said:
Smoking weed with schizos is fun :shrug:



Oh yeah? Imagine it on salvia like these 2 guys


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: TioWWW999]
    #22425886 - 10/24/15 05:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Free pudding.

There are plenty of genetic traits that aren't evolutionary advantages.  Human societies have been and are compassionate to the defective, which slows their elimination from the gene pool.  Some traits are also probably failed versions or mutations of traits that were beneficial, and in a sense, schizophrenics are a cost of doing business, a built-in failure rate in production design.  Bad traits can persist when they are, in all, coupled with more important good traits.  Add to that, humans can survive in some extremely demented/deranged states.

Anyway, I'm not uncompassionate or arguing that human societies should go naturally selecting, only saying that we choose to allow the propagation of traits that would otherwise limit survival severely.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleMalcolm_Xtasy
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions] * 3
    #22426054 - 10/24/15 07:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Op you're a moron If you legitimately think schizophrenia is an evolutionary advantage. :dumbass:


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22426081 - 10/24/15 07:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I believe schizophrenia runs through anxiety, so im pretty sure the child would be paranoid about why a fairy is talking to them.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Chakanooga] * 4
    #22426088 - 10/24/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Runs through anxiety? What does that even mean?

I really thought op was gonna present a good argument for this absurd theory. But instead all I got was, "bro wouldn't it be like so cool to be a kid and have schizophrenia? You can talk to fairies and shit."

Schizophrenia is a severe mental illness that destroys the quality of life for a majority of the individuals that are diagnosed


--------------------
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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22427737 - 10/24/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

yeah schizophrenia is like a stroke or brain tumor
it's like a really bad sunburn inside your brain at all times


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Konyap] * 2
    #22428070 - 10/24/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

A sunburn inside your brain huh? That sounds pretty scientificly accurate :shocking:


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22428123 - 10/24/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Malcolm_Xtasy said:


Schizophrenia is a severe mental illness that destroys the quality of life for a majority of the individuals that are diagnosed




Tend to agree with this. I haven't heard a compelling "advantage" that schizophrenia would provide.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: badchad] * 2
    #22428176 - 10/24/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

But dude like Terrence McKenna said it was like a part of shaminism, and he's totally a leading authority on mental health.


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22428183 - 10/24/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:lolsy:


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[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #22428203 - 10/24/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

for most schizophrenia would probably be an issue but there are cases where it sets you up for certain advantages.

think John Nash.

OP watch this tedtalk about how schizophrenics differ from normy and what possible advantages could this give



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InvisibleMalcolm_Xtasy
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22428215 - 10/24/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

John Nash? Schizophrenia totally ruined his life. What advantage did he gain from being schizophrenic?


--------------------
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I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful.
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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22428223 - 10/24/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

it ruined his life? duh fuck? last time i checked he was a respected mathematician with a noble prize.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: ak47myth] * 1
    #22428231 - 10/24/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ak47myth said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
So does that make cancer an evolutionary advantage too?



What a stupid fucking comparison.

Good job.



I think this brings up a good point. An inherited trait doesn't necessarily have to be advantageous in order to stick around in a population. It just has to be not disadvantageous enough that it always prevents reproduction.


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: psi]
    #22428236 - 10/24/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

What about Syd Barrett?


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[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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InvisibleMalcolm_Xtasy
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22428238 - 10/24/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:rolleyes:


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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #22428256 - 10/24/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

for a schizophrenic hes far more accomplished than most people. we all have issues but the glory is in overcoming them.


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InvisibleMalcolm_Xtasy
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22428259 - 10/24/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

My point was that schizophrenia didn't help him win a nobel prize or enhance his mathematical abilities in any way.


--------------------
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I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful.
I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner.
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OfflineSleepyE
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22428277 - 10/24/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

dude, just watch the video i posted, michael shermer goes over why that statement is false.

because of schizophrenia he sees more patterns than most, but when you see too many patterns you start linking events that have more correlation.

thats the main issue, the up side is you notice things people miss, but on the down side you easily attach events that have no connection.


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InvisibleMalcolm_Xtasy
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22428283 - 10/24/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ok cool I'll watch it in a sec


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OfflineOceanshore23Forest
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22429297 - 10/24/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i hear voices and get delusional and paranoid alot :confused:


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Oceanshore23Forest]
    #22429361 - 10/24/15 08:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Being a skitzo that makes you good at math really isn't an evolutionary advantage. Math is something we created like catching a football. Being the best football player in the world isn't going to make you have some evolutionary benefit. Intelligence is an advantage for sure but given the extremes from being skitzo I'd say it isn't very evolutionary advantageous to have savant like math abilities. You wouldn't want to be running through the dark night thinking every bush was a lion because soon enough you'd adjust to lions.

You really need to break down things when talking about evolutionary advantage to the simplest degree.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Gorlax]
    #22429951 - 10/24/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Lol are you really comparing a mathematician to a footbal player??


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Gorlax]
    #22430160 - 10/24/15 11:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gorlax said:
Being a skitzo that makes you good at math really isn't an evolutionary advantage. Math is something we created like catching a football. Being the best football player in the world isn't going to make you have some evolutionary benefit.





really? you mean to tell me that catching a football isnt an evolutionary
advantage, hand eye coordination isnt important? fast reflexes arent
important on an evolutionary scale? catching things wasnt 'invented' or
'created' it is part of the instincts we have that are built in such as
dodging things being thrown at us, it's a part of survival and can be
developed as a skill proving it to be an evolutionary advantage

Quote:

Intelligence is an advantage for sure




I dont think you should be talking about intelligence after this statement


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OfflineLiquidVisions
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22430163 - 10/24/15 11:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Malcolm_Xtasy said:
Runs through anxiety? What does that even mean?

I really thought op was gonna present a good argument for this absurd theory. But instead all I got was, "bro wouldn't it be like so cool to be a kid and have schizophrenia? You can talk to fairies and shit."

Schizophrenia is a severe mental illness that destroys the quality of life for a majority of the individuals that are diagnosed



Only in western societies is Schizophrenia said to be this severe mental illness and that means that there is something wrong with this society. To have schizophrenia means to have a super mega mind. You can create your own visual and auditory information. As a child wouldn't you love being in your own imaginary world instead of watching spongebob? Think about it. Get on my level.


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OfflineLiquidVisions
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions]
    #22430169 - 10/24/15 11:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The benefit can be having this mega creative mind possibly. A voice that provides guidance like some people in the article that I posted originally have reported.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions] * 2
    #22430324 - 10/25/15 01:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidVisions said:
Hey everyone I've been researching Schizophrenia on my own time for about a year now. I've always been fascinated by this "illness", however now I don't think that it is an illness. I believe schizophrenia is some sort of evolutionary advantage. If you think about it schizophrenia is almost always genetic. People who have schizophrenia usually have hallucinations and delusions. People in America mostly report their symptoms to be terrible and threatening, yet people in more undeveloped countries report their symptoms to be helpful and good. (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/when-hearing-voices-is-a-good-thing/374863/)
...




Was able to sit down and read the full study at:
https://www.academia.edu/15399080/Hearing_Voices_in_different_cultures_a_social_kindling_hypothesis

And there are a number of factors worth noting.

Foremost, the formal study only interviewed 20 people from each country, which is not really a great sample size.
There also does not seem to be much accounting for different types of schizophrenia, and rather opted to just get whoever they could that qualified as schizophrenic generally.

Being forgiving in that regard though, there are other interesting things.

First, despite claims of the experiences being positive, the data does not do a lot to support that:


Only in Ghana is there a significant number of individuals that classify their experience as predominately positive, and in that instance it is half, which is a large amount but not in the range of majority.

Interestingly, Ghana also had a really notable case of negative encounter with the condition:
Quote:

One woman experienced her psychosis as an unpleasant spirit marriage. It was a sexually active relationship, and if the spirit was displeased it beat her physically, a comment made by two others in the Accra sample.






What the data seems to show more of is that Americans have a more concrete interpretation of schizophrenia as a mental health condition, whereas in Africa and India there is more of an emphasis of supernatural aspects to the voices.

Giving a respectful leeway to the idea that, because the patients do not view their experiences as clinical and something to be resisted, their encounters with schizophrenia are less stressful or causes them less mental anguish may have some validity.
Even if that is the case though, would not go so far to classify them having the condition as being positive.

More than that, none of the data suggests anything that is an adaptive evolutionary advantage.  Even if the content of the experiences may have a cultural context of being more positive, that does not make the experiences necessarily beneficial.

Another source for India suggests that even the cultural context around schizophrenia is not necessarily positive either:
Quote:

It  took some time for Shamma’s family and teachers to understand why she was struggling at school.

“Teachers complained that my daughter fought with other girls because they called her names,” says Shamma’s father, Mohammad Yusuf Mansuri. “The problem got worse. People began saying she had been possessed or fallen under black magic.”

On the brink of despair, Mohammad found hope through a mental health facility in their home state of Gujarat, India, where Shamma was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Here, at last, she was able to get the help she so desperately needed.



http://www.who.int/features/2015/mental-health-care-india/en/

Struggling in school, looked upon as a victim of demons or black magic -- not really positive framing.

What I did find really interesting about the study was how many of the individuals in all three countries professed to having a personal religious faith -- it was in the majority in all three countries, and reflects on some of what was mentioned in the biology lecture I had shared in my initial post.


Edited by Tantrika (10/25/15 02:01 AM)


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22430374 - 10/25/15 02:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Free pudding.

There are plenty of genetic traits that aren't evolutionary advantages.  Human societies have been and are compassionate to the defective, which slows their elimination from the gene pool.  Some traits are also probably failed versions or mutations of traits that were beneficial, and in a sense, schizophrenics are a cost of doing business, a built-in failure rate in production design.  Bad traits can persist when they are, in all, coupled with more important good traits.  Add to that, humans can survive in some extremely demented/deranged states.

Anyway, I'm not uncompassionate or arguing that human societies should go naturally selecting, only saying that we choose to allow the propagation of traits that would otherwise limit survival severely.




Like many common genetic illnesses, it doesn't manifest itself until after childbearing age.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #22430385 - 10/25/15 03:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

First of all, I think the label schizophrenia is too broad and that there are varying brain pathologies that end up getting labeled as instances of it.

Second of all, I think the only way you could possibly come to the conclusion that most of instances of what gets labeled as schizophrenia have the potential to be advantageous or positive is if you are being highly selective about your research.

Go to a psychiatric facility and talk to some schizophrenics.

I have been in a psychiatric facility and talked to schizophrenics. It isn't pretty.

For the most part, they appear to have overwhelmingly negative misperceptions. For example, one of the ones I talked to believed that the devil was stalking them. Another one believed that aliens were conducting research on him. Some of them aren't even coherent enough to be able to describe what it is they are perceiving, but whatever it is, it's obviously not good, because they are attempting suicide, or acting out violently, or otherwise engaging in extremely antisocial behavior.

If it were the case that they were perceiving something legitimate or accurate that other people cannot perceive, and they have the same brain pathology, then there would be agreement among them about their perceptual experiences. But there is not.

What seems to be happening, as I understand it, is a disruption in dopamine signaling that presents and encourages the schizophrenic to engage in delusional thinking.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: morrowasted]
    #22430578 - 10/25/15 05:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Morrowasted, then still alleged "schizophrenia" is very diffeent among differing groups. In Africa it tends to be more benign and positive and tends to the shamanic and because people are more culturally used to spirits meddling with human affairs, there tends to be less anxiety and less feeling of violation.

In the west there is the expectancy that if you hear voices, they must try put you up to awful things. Thats the anxiety and medicalization of the CONDITION distorting the messages of the voices.

In traditional rural Africa, if you are a psychotic you are taken to the local shaman who then assesses if you have what it takes to be a shaman's apprentice and if so, will coach you into living with the condition and using your "connection with the spirit world" for the benefit of the people.

In this way, a psychotic inclination is a burden to most people who have it, but can be a benefit to primitive society if the psychotic is trained in seeing what others cannot discern, such as clairvoyance.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Asante]
    #22430728 - 10/25/15 07:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I was with you until you mentioned clairvoyance. I can see how the shamanic treatment of some scizophrenics can be more helpful than the Western treatment in terms of helping them to cope with the symptoms of their pathology in a way leads to positive interpretations of misperceptions rather than negative interpretations of them. But I have not seen any evidence that schizophrenics or shamans or anyone really has the ability to see the future or any other kind of supernatural ability. I'd like it if you shared some with me.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #22430742 - 10/25/15 07:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I have no objective empirical evidence. I have however seen way too much personally to not consider it, and as you know finding lost objects and predicting the availability of herds of animals typically were shamanic tasks. That wouldnt be so if they were unreliable.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: morrowasted]
    #22430755 - 10/25/15 07:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

some intelligent people who have it but are high functioning might get a creative edge though, definitely not a supernatural ability like clairvoyance, but i do think in some cases it could be considered enhanced ability, with a lot of possible negative though. :shrug:

its funny a lot of mental disorders do have some positive kick backs, like OCD, it can sometimes manifest itself into an incredible work ethic because of your obsession with minor details.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Asante]
    #22430760 - 10/25/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
That wouldnt be so if they were unreliable.



a lot people think homeopathics are reliable.

But thats not anything i have experience with so i cant judge on if it is reliable aha.:justdontknow:


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SleepyE]
    #22430762 - 10/25/15 07:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

What if there are actual, tangible clues preceding events and some people are more susceptible to picking those up?

Its to do with the fabric of reality, and so does psychosis.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #22430769 - 10/25/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

my experience with any sort of "shamanic visions of the future" is that you get a bunch of bullshit that doesnt come true, and a few that actually do. mainly because you have actual capability to achieve what you "envisioned" on the things that come true, so in my eyes its more like a tool to set a goals by dreaming and manifesting it into reality through hard work. If its realistic.


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Edited by SleepyE (10/25/15 07:26 AM)


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions]
    #22430795 - 10/25/15 07:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidVisions said:
Quote:

Malcolm_Xtasy said:
Runs through anxiety? What does that even mean?

I really thought op was gonna present a good argument for this absurd theory. But instead all I got was, "bro wouldn't it be like so cool to be a kid and have schizophrenia? You can talk to fairies and shit."

Schizophrenia is a severe mental illness that destroys the quality of life for a majority of the individuals that are diagnosed



Only in western societies is Schizophrenia said to be this severe mental illness and that means that there is something wrong with this society. To have schizophrenia means to have a super mega mind. You can create your own visual and auditory information. As a child wouldn't you love being in your own imaginary world instead of watching spongebob? Think about it. Get on my level.



Wrong wrong wrong wrong.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
    #22430825 - 10/25/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

making assertions with no explanation is not going to prove your point.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #22430923 - 10/25/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I was with you until you mentioned clairvoyance.




Same here. I agree though on the point that any possible advantage is probably going to be best understood by looking at a tribal/social context, rather than the "individual vs the world" kind of thing people often think of when they conceptualize survival of the fittest.

Rather than clairvoyance I'd go with "outside the box" thinking as a possible advantage. Same general idea though minus the supernatural element: the person might be able to provide some useful ideas that nobody else in the group was likely to come up with.


Edited by psi (10/25/15 08:43 AM)


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: psi] * 2
    #22431021 - 10/25/15 09:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Then I'm glad clairvoyance was the last word of the post :sun:


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Asante]
    #22433520 - 10/25/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

http://io9.com/the-most-popular-antidepressants-are-based-on-a-theory-1686163236
The Myth Of The Chemical Imbalance Theory

There is no question that the chemical imbalance theory has spurred chemists to invent new anti-depressants, or that these anti-depressants have been shown to work; but proof that low serotonin is to blame for depression – and that boosting serotonin levels is the key to its treatment – has eluded researchers.

The Most Popular Antidepressants Are Based On An Outdated Theory [UPDATED]
For starters, it is impossible to directly measure brain serotonin levels in humans. You can’t sample human brain tissue without also destroying it. A crude work-around involves measuring levels of a serotonin metabolite, 5-HIAA, in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF), which can only be obtained with a spinal tap. A handful of studies from the 1980s (like this one) found slightly decreased 5-HIAA in the CSF of depressed and suicidal patients, while later studies have produced conflicting results on whether SSRIs lower or raise CSF levels of 5-HIAA. These studies are all circumstantial with regards to actual serotonin levels, though, and the fact remains there is no direct evidence of a chemical imbalance underlying depression. [Left: The only way to measure brain serotonin levels in living people is to take a sample of cerebrospinal fluid, via spinal tap. Credit: Blausen.com staff, Wikiversity Journal of Medicine | CC BY 3.0.]

The corollary to the chemical imbalance theory, which implies that raising brain serotonin levels alleviates depression, has also been hard to prove. As mentioned previously, the serotonin-depleting drug reserpine was itself shown to be an effective anti-depressant in the 1950s, the same decade in which other studies claimed that reserpine caused depression-like symptoms. At the time, few psychiatrists acknowledged these conflicting reports, as the studies muddled a beautiful, though incorrect, theory. Tianeptine is another drug that decreases serotonin levels while also serving as a bona-fide anti-depressant. Tianeptine does just the opposite of SSRIs – it enhances serotonin reuptake. Wellbutrin is a third anti-depressant that doesn’t increase serotonin levels. You get the picture.

If you prefer your data to be derived more accurately, but less relevantly, from rodents, you might consider a recent meta-analysis carried out by researchers led by McMaster University psychologist Paul Andrews. Their investigation revealed that, in rodents, depression was usually associated with elevated serotonin levels. Andrews argues that depression is therefore a disorder of too much serotonin, but the ambiguous truth is that different experiments have shown “activation or blockage of certain serotonin receptors [to improve] or worsen depression symptoms in an unpredictable manner.”

Other problems with the chemical imbalance model of depression have been well documented elsewhere. For instance, if low serotonin levels were responsible for symptoms of depression, it stands to reason that boosting levels of serotonin should alleviate symptoms more or less immediately. In fact, antidepressants can take more than a month to take effect. Clearly, something here just doesn’t add up.


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Konyap]
    #22433532 - 10/25/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/266102.php

Quote:

"There are several studies, mine included, that show people with schizophrenia have smaller-than-average cranial size.

Since cranial development is completed within the first few years of life, there may be some aspect of earliest development - perhaps things such as pregnancy complications or exposure to viruses - that on average, affected people with schizophrenia."

The brain scans also showed that those who suffer from schizophrenia demonstrated the highest tissue loss in the first 2 years after their first episode, after which point it slowed down significantly.

The results showed that the higher the dosage of anti-psychotic medication in patients, the more brain tissue was lost.




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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Konyap]
    #23144707 - 04/22/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I've had schizophrenia since i was a kid. My grandfather had it. Overall it's not fun.
I have paranoid schizophrenia so i'm very functional, but i have trouble trusting anyone and get paranoid delusions about almost everyone i meet.

I used to get intense pzychotic episodes as a kid where i'd go into other worlds of pure terror and fear. Those stopped completely as soon as i started smoking weed in high school and i continue to smoke daily.

CBD has been proven to be a safe and effective antipsychotic.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23093112

I've had some positive delusions, dreams of specific things that have come true, law of attraction type of things, lots of synchronicities.
I'm a good artist and musician.
I can be arrogant at times.

This documentary on John Nash describes the disease perfectly.


Edited by SirDabsAlot (04/22/16 04:04 PM)


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SirDabsAlot]
    #23144725 - 04/22/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SirDabsAlot said:
I have paranoid schizoohrenia so i'm very functional





this explains a lot


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23144827 - 04/22/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

:smokeweedallday:


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SirDabsAlot]
    #23144986 - 04/22/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

"My brain is slowly breaking down. I can't organise my thoughts and generally I am unaware of any self or mind, the thoughts I do have seem correct because I can't think anything else but in reality are completely irrational and disconnected, paranoia and evil seemingly in the air, in everyone's eyes and voice, in public I'm sure every conversation is about me. Emotions are flat but sometimes sheer frustration breaks through and I think I could kill someone.

Better let me lead the pack guys."


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: circastes]
    #23145971 - 04/22/16 11:59 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Who said that?


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SirDabsAlot] * 1
    #23146132 - 04/23/16 02:15 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

It's my example of a typical schizophrenic claiming an evolutionary advantage. :sun:


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SirDabsAlot]
    #23146300 - 04/23/16 05:12 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SirDabsAlot said:
:smokeweedallday:



you shouldnt smoke weed man with any meds you are on thats all im gonna say. :knowwhatnevermind:


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: trekie]
    #23146340 - 04/23/16 05:43 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

:lol: Weed IS my medication.


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