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SleepyE
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for most schizophrenia would probably be an issue but there are cases where it sets you up for certain advantages.
think John Nash.
OP watch this tedtalk about how schizophrenics differ from normy and what possible advantages could this give
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SleepyE]
#22428215 - 10/24/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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John Nash? Schizophrenia totally ruined his life. What advantage did he gain from being schizophrenic?
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22428223 - 10/24/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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it ruined his life? duh fuck? last time i checked he was a respected mathematician with a noble prize.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: ak47myth] 1
#22428231 - 10/24/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ak47myth said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: So does that make cancer an evolutionary advantage too?
What a stupid fucking comparison.
Good job.
I think this brings up a good point. An inherited trait doesn't necessarily have to be advantageous in order to stick around in a population. It just has to be not disadvantageous enough that it always prevents reproduction.
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: psi]
#22428236 - 10/24/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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What about Syd Barrett?
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SleepyE]
#22428238 - 10/24/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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for a schizophrenic hes far more accomplished than most people. we all have issues but the glory is in overcoming them.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SleepyE]
#22428259 - 10/24/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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My point was that schizophrenia didn't help him win a nobel prize or enhance his mathematical abilities in any way.
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22428277 - 10/24/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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dude, just watch the video i posted, michael shermer goes over why that statement is false.
because of schizophrenia he sees more patterns than most, but when you see too many patterns you start linking events that have more correlation.
thats the main issue, the up side is you notice things people miss, but on the down side you easily attach events that have no connection.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: SleepyE]
#22428283 - 10/24/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok cool I'll watch it in a sec
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Oceanshore23Forest
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22429297 - 10/24/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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i hear voices and get delusional and paranoid alot
-------------------- Jenny, jehny, sean, taliesen, taylor I was the Head honcho And...... i still am Jonas is everready matthew is a psychiatrist Marcus is a therapist Arthur has Appeared ..... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1Gz8gmpPZTDdbWY7sNa3D5PGER3mxvp2 The drugs i use: Day: Clozaril 400mg, Zyprexa, 15mg, Seroquel 20mg, Risperdal 6mg, Invega 9mg The all in One Curved Rounded Pillar, Klonopin 1mg, Truvada The now mushroomm, Tivicay the Daydreams mushroom, Gabapentin 600mg Night: Lithium 300mg, Ativan 3mg, 5Htp, Trazodone 100mg, Hydroxyzine 2 at sleep time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWWopjG9URo&nohtml5=False
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Gorlax



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Being a skitzo that makes you good at math really isn't an evolutionary advantage. Math is something we created like catching a football. Being the best football player in the world isn't going to make you have some evolutionary benefit. Intelligence is an advantage for sure but given the extremes from being skitzo I'd say it isn't very evolutionary advantageous to have savant like math abilities. You wouldn't want to be running through the dark night thinking every bush was a lion because soon enough you'd adjust to lions.
You really need to break down things when talking about evolutionary advantage to the simplest degree.
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shadyy
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Gorlax]
#22429951 - 10/24/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lol are you really comparing a mathematician to a footbal player??
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Gorlax]
#22430160 - 10/24/15 11:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gorlax said: Being a skitzo that makes you good at math really isn't an evolutionary advantage. Math is something we created like catching a football. Being the best football player in the world isn't going to make you have some evolutionary benefit.
really? you mean to tell me that catching a football isnt an evolutionary advantage, hand eye coordination isnt important? fast reflexes arent important on an evolutionary scale? catching things wasnt 'invented' or 'created' it is part of the instincts we have that are built in such as dodging things being thrown at us, it's a part of survival and can be developed as a skill proving it to be an evolutionary advantage
Quote:
Intelligence is an advantage for sure
I dont think you should be talking about intelligence after this statement
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LiquidVisions
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22430163 - 10/24/15 11:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Malcolm_Xtasy said: Runs through anxiety? What does that even mean?
I really thought op was gonna present a good argument for this absurd theory. But instead all I got was, "bro wouldn't it be like so cool to be a kid and have schizophrenia? You can talk to fairies and shit."
Schizophrenia is a severe mental illness that destroys the quality of life for a majority of the individuals that are diagnosed
Only in western societies is Schizophrenia said to be this severe mental illness and that means that there is something wrong with this society. To have schizophrenia means to have a super mega mind. You can create your own visual and auditory information. As a child wouldn't you love being in your own imaginary world instead of watching spongebob? Think about it. Get on my level.
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LiquidVisions
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions]
#22430169 - 10/24/15 11:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The benefit can be having this mega creative mind possibly. A voice that provides guidance like some people in the article that I posted originally have reported.
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Tantrika
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: LiquidVisions] 2
#22430324 - 10/25/15 01:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LiquidVisions said: Hey everyone I've been researching Schizophrenia on my own time for about a year now. I've always been fascinated by this "illness", however now I don't think that it is an illness. I believe schizophrenia is some sort of evolutionary advantage. If you think about it schizophrenia is almost always genetic. People who have schizophrenia usually have hallucinations and delusions. People in America mostly report their symptoms to be terrible and threatening, yet people in more undeveloped countries report their symptoms to be helpful and good. (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/when-hearing-voices-is-a-good-thing/374863/) ...
Was able to sit down and read the full study at: https://www.academia.edu/15399080/Hearing_Voices_in_different_cultures_a_social_kindling_hypothesis
And there are a number of factors worth noting.
Foremost, the formal study only interviewed 20 people from each country, which is not really a great sample size. There also does not seem to be much accounting for different types of schizophrenia, and rather opted to just get whoever they could that qualified as schizophrenic generally.
Being forgiving in that regard though, there are other interesting things.
First, despite claims of the experiences being positive, the data does not do a lot to support that:

Only in Ghana is there a significant number of individuals that classify their experience as predominately positive, and in that instance it is half, which is a large amount but not in the range of majority.
Interestingly, Ghana also had a really notable case of negative encounter with the condition:
Quote:
One woman experienced her psychosis as an unpleasant spirit marriage. It was a sexually active relationship, and if the spirit was displeased it beat her physically, a comment made by two others in the Accra sample.

What the data seems to show more of is that Americans have a more concrete interpretation of schizophrenia as a mental health condition, whereas in Africa and India there is more of an emphasis of supernatural aspects to the voices.
Giving a respectful leeway to the idea that, because the patients do not view their experiences as clinical and something to be resisted, their encounters with schizophrenia are less stressful or causes them less mental anguish may have some validity. Even if that is the case though, would not go so far to classify them having the condition as being positive.
More than that, none of the data suggests anything that is an adaptive evolutionary advantage. Even if the content of the experiences may have a cultural context of being more positive, that does not make the experiences necessarily beneficial.
Another source for India suggests that even the cultural context around schizophrenia is not necessarily positive either:
Quote:
It took some time for Shamma’s family and teachers to understand why she was struggling at school.
“Teachers complained that my daughter fought with other girls because they called her names,” says Shamma’s father, Mohammad Yusuf Mansuri. “The problem got worse. People began saying she had been possessed or fallen under black magic.”
On the brink of despair, Mohammad found hope through a mental health facility in their home state of Gujarat, India, where Shamma was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Here, at last, she was able to get the help she so desperately needed.
http://www.who.int/features/2015/mental-health-care-india/en/
Struggling in school, looked upon as a victim of demons or black magic -- not really positive framing.
What I did find really interesting about the study was how many of the individuals in all three countries professed to having a personal religious faith -- it was in the majority in all three countries, and reflects on some of what was mentioned in the biology lecture I had shared in my initial post.
Edited by Tantrika (10/25/15 02:01 AM)
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koods
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: Free pudding.
There are plenty of genetic traits that aren't evolutionary advantages. Human societies have been and are compassionate to the defective, which slows their elimination from the gene pool. Some traits are also probably failed versions or mutations of traits that were beneficial, and in a sense, schizophrenics are a cost of doing business, a built-in failure rate in production design. Bad traits can persist when they are, in all, coupled with more important good traits. Add to that, humans can survive in some extremely demented/deranged states.
Anyway, I'm not uncompassionate or arguing that human societies should go naturally selecting, only saying that we choose to allow the propagation of traits that would otherwise limit survival severely.
Like many common genetic illnesses, it doesn't manifest itself until after childbearing age.
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morrowasted
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: Tantrika] 2
#22430385 - 10/25/15 03:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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First of all, I think the label schizophrenia is too broad and that there are varying brain pathologies that end up getting labeled as instances of it.
Second of all, I think the only way you could possibly come to the conclusion that most of instances of what gets labeled as schizophrenia have the potential to be advantageous or positive is if you are being highly selective about your research.
Go to a psychiatric facility and talk to some schizophrenics.
I have been in a psychiatric facility and talked to schizophrenics. It isn't pretty.
For the most part, they appear to have overwhelmingly negative misperceptions. For example, one of the ones I talked to believed that the devil was stalking them. Another one believed that aliens were conducting research on him. Some of them aren't even coherent enough to be able to describe what it is they are perceiving, but whatever it is, it's obviously not good, because they are attempting suicide, or acting out violently, or otherwise engaging in extremely antisocial behavior.
If it were the case that they were perceiving something legitimate or accurate that other people cannot perceive, and they have the same brain pathology, then there would be agreement among them about their perceptual experiences. But there is not.
What seems to be happening, as I understand it, is a disruption in dopamine signaling that presents and encourages the schizophrenic to engage in delusional thinking.
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Asante
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Re: Schizophrenia Evolutionary Advantage? [Re: morrowasted]
#22430578 - 10/25/15 05:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Morrowasted, then still alleged "schizophrenia" is very diffeent among differing groups. In Africa it tends to be more benign and positive and tends to the shamanic and because people are more culturally used to spirits meddling with human affairs, there tends to be less anxiety and less feeling of violation.
In the west there is the expectancy that if you hear voices, they must try put you up to awful things. Thats the anxiety and medicalization of the CONDITION distorting the messages of the voices.
In traditional rural Africa, if you are a psychotic you are taken to the local shaman who then assesses if you have what it takes to be a shaman's apprentice and if so, will coach you into living with the condition and using your "connection with the spirit world" for the benefit of the people.
In this way, a psychotic inclination is a burden to most people who have it, but can be a benefit to primitive society if the psychotic is trained in seeing what others cannot discern, such as clairvoyance.
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