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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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a bit of spiritual logic
    #22419547 - 10/22/15 06:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If subject and object are two sides of a single coin, and subjectivity is mind, then objective Nature must also be inherently mind-like.  Does anyone see any fault with this reasoning?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22419592 - 10/22/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I would say what you are calling objective nature contains Mind and in that sense, is mind like. But it also transcends mind and that sense, is not the least bit mind like. So while your logic is good, I believe it to be flawed. But I don't really know anything.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: Peyote Road]
    #22419603 - 10/22/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well I personally believe the universe is fundamentally a sort of hologram, which would indeed be a kind of supervening mind or brain.  But I take your point.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22419648 - 10/22/15 06:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Just to be clear, I mean the holographic metaphor to represent consciousness, not precisely like a brain.  And this I analogize to being mind-like, if there is a distinction to be made between mind and consciousness.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22419665 - 10/22/15 06:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think truthfulness is most important; then peacefulness, then kindness- maybe # 2 or 3 reversed or interchangeable; but this is just sharing.  If you break any of those, need to go back to square one and start all over again.  Theory without loving-kindness is not good in itself.

Love and peace,
J.

With the power to heal comes a great deal of responsibility.  Don't misuse use it.

Peace, brother.
J.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22421606 - 10/23/15 06:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
If subject and object are two sides of a single coin, and subjectivity is mind, then objective Nature must also be inherently mind-like.  Does anyone see any fault with this reasoning?




Makes sense to me. In laymen's terms, we're all made of the same stuff!

Using the coin example, the material the coin is made of shouldnt change due to the angle from which it is being viewed.

:peace:


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Offlinebeachbum2
Registered: 10/21/15
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #22421979 - 10/23/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I was thinking about how the United States looks at weed.

×××In God we dont trust?×××


I was thinking why don't they just legalize it in all states. In a sense the United States is saying in God we don't trust. Reason I say that is, The u.s allows baths salts/k2 to be sold an available just about anywhere. This drug is a man made drug an it causes people to run the streets but ass naked and eat other people/kill them. I never heard about weed causing a death or make people loss there mind like that. The only scary thing I think weed dose is that it gives you memory loss. People are warned that cigarettes give them cancer an can kill them despite warning people still smoke.

So yeah in God the U.S government dose not trust. God gave us this amazing drug but nope we can't trust weed hehe lol, but here take this bath salt/k2 an do this instead.

UNBELIEVABLE!

×××you don't need to comment I just wanted to share my thoughts. When I trip this is the kinda stuff I think about. It's amazing how much clearer your mind works, on the drugs God gave us!


Edited by beachbum2 (10/23/15 09:24 AM)


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Invisiblechampinhom
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22421980 - 10/23/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
If subject and object are two sides of a single coin, and subjectivity is mind, then objective Nature must also be inherently mind-like.  Does anyone see any fault with this reasoning?




you got it.


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
Saul Bellow

“People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing

Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: champinhom]
    #22422267 - 10/23/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Universaleyeni said:
Makes sense to me. In laymen's terms, we're all made of the same stuff!

Using the coin example, the material the coin is made of shouldnt change due to the angle from which it is being viewed.

:peace:




Nicely put.


Quote:

champinhom said:
you got it.




:thumbup:


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22422497 - 10/23/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The most important thing is working together.  With El Nino coming up, crazy weather, this couldn't really possibly be more clear.

Fighting makes no sense because it pretty much attempts to destroy the fabric of society...  We're such amazing beings--  Lived through an ice age, and so much else; the potential within us is very vast..


There is no impediment except the idea that there is an impediment, as Ramana wrote..



Another awy of saying it might be- there are no impediments except saying the world is-----


The world is what we make it.  You, I, and everyone reading this, writing the next posts, interacting--


And everyone else in the universe help create it--  One of the extremely important flaws with eternal argument is that it drags everyone down to the lowest level, pretty much.


If you say to someone, 'You're nuts,' then that's it- it's over.  What friendship could ever be there?


And the whole bit about trying to persuade others--- the huge issue there is that you are not accepting them as who they are--- you're trying to change them, and that is... I won't use stronger words but it's--- not good, lol. 


Infinite diversity basically, to use a Spock-ism.  Or Vulcan, etc.


Peace and kindness,
your friend.



Ah yes- the other problem with closing off from people, etc., as a way of habit - is, we're all the same.


Not just kinda the same - but exactly the same; The same happinesses, the same sorrows -- etc.  When you reach that level of empathic sense-- if someone hurts, you hurt, then you have to become very, very strong and good at sharing peace with people ----

And those who do this, should be respect, as they respect others; and often humble themselves to go to the very lowest.... in order to see the highest; and help people learn to have self-faith, so that we may have peace.


Peace and love,
J.


The secondary error with most communication -- any communication done in error, that is-- not a kind done truthfully, with understanding, peace and wisdom, etc--

The basic error then is -- people give kindness, thinking that it creates something of value... or praise someone, thinking that they somehow bestow upon them the value...

No- the value is already there.  Kindness said or done out of condescension can never truly be called kindness.


As Em wrote, 'almost all men descend to meet each other,' and overcoming this-- is very wonderful.


Peace and love,
J.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22422767 - 10/23/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Well I personally believe the universe is fundamentally a sort of hologram, which would indeed be a kind of supervening mind or brain.  But I take your point.




I agree with you on that, I just don't think the universe is all that big in comparison to all that is. The way I have been shows things is that, to quote Ramana Maharshi, "the entire universe exists inside a tiny pinhole in the heart".


Another way to explain is that I have read in some Hindu scripture, possiblty the Bhagavad Gita, that all of phenomenal existence only makes up 1% of God's total being.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: Peyote Road]
    #22423317 - 10/23/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

silence and reality


--------------------
It's all for the :lol:s


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22423329 - 10/23/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

hi Eggtimer; I rarely look at videos- but by your name, and signature, just seeming the purity and beauty beyond your words and sig. i would like to view this one, but i am unable;

could you put it in link form?  for instance url?

gratefully yours,
jake

Quote:

Peyote Road said:I agree with you on that, I just don't think the universe is all that big in comparison to all that is. The way I have been shows things is that, to quote Ramana Maharshi, "the entire universe exists inside a tiny pinhole in the heart".


Another way to explain is that I have read in some Hindu scripture, possiblty the Bhagavad Gita, that all of phenomenal existence only makes up 1% of God's total being.




hehe i replied in another thread, beautifully said, (i kno, i kno, random or oblique) i wanted to say here; loved this... don't ever undervalue these things :sun: not that you would... hehe.

beautiful realizations, sharing wisdom and what not-- dogen expressed it beautifully here-

'Each moment of zazen is equally wholeness of practice, equally wholeness of realization. This is not only practice while sitting, it is like a hammer striking emptiness: before and after, its exquisite peal permeates everywhere. How can it be limited to this moment?'

it's a beautiful and wonderful instance of description of it... one may return to such things many times throughout life, and generally as we grow and develop; they often make more meaning, mean much more, and we are able to relate to them more, as we grow and develop.

Peace and love!
J.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: Peyote Road]
    #22423473 - 10/23/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Well I personally believe the universe is fundamentally a sort of hologram, which would indeed be a kind of supervening mind or brain.  But I take your point.




I agree with you on that, I just don't think the universe is all that big in comparison to all that is. The way I have been shows things is that, to quote Ramana Maharshi, "the entire universe exists inside a tiny pinhole in the heart".


Another way to explain is that I have read in some Hindu scripture, possiblty the Bhagavad Gita, that all of phenomenal existence only makes up 1% of God's total being.




Well I happen to subscribe to the multiverse theory as well, which stipulates infinities of infinities.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22423875 - 10/23/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

once in a lifetime said:
hi Eggtimer; I rarely look at videos- but by your name, and signature, just seeming the purity and beauty beyond your words and sig. i would like to view this one, but i am unable;

could you put it in link form?  for instance url?

gratefully yours,
jake

Quote:

Peyote Road said:I agree with you on that, I just don't think the universe is all that big in comparison to all that is. The way I have been shows things is that, to quote Ramana Maharshi, "the entire universe exists inside a tiny pinhole in the heart".


Another way to explain is that I have read in some Hindu scripture, possiblty the Bhagavad Gita, that all of phenomenal existence only makes up 1% of God's total being.




hehe i replied in another thread, beautifully said, (i kno, i kno, random or oblique) i wanted to say here; loved this... don't ever undervalue these things :sun: not that you would... hehe.

beautiful realizations, sharing wisdom and what not-- dogen expressed it beautifully here-

'Each moment of zazen is equally wholeness of practice, equally wholeness of realization. This is not only practice while sitting, it is like a hammer striking emptiness: before and after, its exquisite peal permeates everywhere. How can it be limited to this moment?'

it's a beautiful and wonderful instance of description of it... one may return to such things many times throughout life, and generally as we grow and develop; they often make more meaning, mean much more, and we are able to relate to them more, as we grow and develop.

Peace and love!
J.




Here ya go. Thanks but I'm no angel pretty devious and selfish at times but I'm working on it :heart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMi5yrnrVD8


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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22424465 - 10/23/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

oh! cool, alan watts :smile: i loved him; his take on karma like the trail of a boat on the water is very nice!

here's one for ya in return


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22452133 - 10/30/15 03:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

there's a false coin, and a real coin.

the coin referenced here in this thread is a false coin.

the real coin is that with no dichotomy. all-mind and all-object.

the world we make up around us is the world we answer to.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: a bit of spiritual logic [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22458430 - 10/31/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

well I think with subjectivity comes a certain categorical imperative..which IS necessarily the fulfilling of the subject that you are..as a self..but objective truths..are clear in so far as they are presented correctly!


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