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jimbob989
Psilocybernaut

Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 79
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? *DELETED*
#22419360 - 10/22/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by jimbob989Reason for deletion: Cuz i made a more informative one!!!
-------------------- First Cyan (indeed first wild Psilocybe of any kind) that I ever did find! Oddly enough, she was alone, in a fairly dark coloured mix of compost and soil, where as every other cluster since was in light/alder type chips!
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mushmagic
supporting radical habits



Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 5,372
Loc: Candyland
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: jimbob989]
#22419620 - 10/22/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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1 or 3 IMO.
And yea as long as it's sterile you should be fine and you can throw it in the fridge in the meantime.
EDIT: Wait scratch that is the compost sterilized or pasteurized?
--------------------
Trade list in journal (partially under construction; more to be added) Don't judge a man by what kinda shoes he in, judge a man on where that man's shoes been.
Edited by mushmagic (10/22/15 06:49 PM)
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jimbob989
Psilocybernaut

Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 79
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: mushmagic]
#22419642 - 10/22/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sterilized. Im leaning towards innoc all three, and then fruit the compost in a tray and spawn the rye and wbs to coco and verm in a small monotub
-------------------- First Cyan (indeed first wild Psilocybe of any kind) that I ever did find! Oddly enough, she was alone, in a fairly dark coloured mix of compost and soil, where as every other cluster since was in light/alder type chips!
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mushmagic
supporting radical habits



Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 5,372
Loc: Candyland
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: jimbob989]
#22419654 - 10/22/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well if it's sterilized and you're spawning to bulk you'll need to spawn it under sterile conditions. Either in a still air box or in front of a flowhood.
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Trade list in journal (partially under construction; more to be added) Don't judge a man by what kinda shoes he in, judge a man on where that man's shoes been.
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: jimbob989]
#22419678 - 10/22/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jimbob989 said: Hey guys, just getting back in the game after years.
Ive 2pounds of rye, 2pounds wbs, and 5 pounds of compost, each in its own filtered spawn bag, And i had 3 ideas.
1) inoculate the wbs and rye, save the compost to use as bulk sub in a monotub with rye and wbs spawned to compost
2) inoculate all 3 bags, fruit them like they were giant cakes
3) innocate all 3, use two of em to spawn to bulk, fruit the other like it was a cake as a backup incase the bulk contams
Any advice ?
P.s. Can you keep a spawn bag of compost for later use ( fully sterile ) or must it be used right away?
Did you sterilized the compost bag? If you did, you'll have to inoculate the bag with full colonized grains, perhaps you are thinking that you can inoculate the manure/compost bag with spores or LC but it will be very unlikely to colonize at all, spores or LC don't have enough nutrients for the myc to start colonizing the manure, you need to inoculate the compost bag with colonized grains and if you sterilized the compost bag or bought it that way... you would need to inoculate the bag in front of a flow hood or inside a still air box.
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jimbob989
Psilocybernaut

Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 79
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22419707 - 10/22/15 07:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is rye in the compost to help it colonize. I have no flow hood, so you are saying that the compost being sterile not pasturrized will not be good as a bulk sub? In that case im thinking get them all colonized and spawn the rye and wbs to coco and verm, the compost/rye just in a tray
-------------------- First Cyan (indeed first wild Psilocybe of any kind) that I ever did find! Oddly enough, she was alone, in a fairly dark coloured mix of compost and soil, where as every other cluster since was in light/alder type chips!
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: jimbob989]
#22419761 - 10/22/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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ask the vendor to elaborate if its sterilized or not. some make weirdo claims on their site because it makes newer growers feel better. "sterilized" sounds better to someone out of the loop than explaining what "pasteurized" even means.
if u have rye in ur compost, u need to noc that up separate. do not spawn it open air like most tub TEKs call for.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: jimbob989]
#22419773 - 10/22/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jimbob989 said: There is rye in the compost to help it colonize. I have no flow hood, so you are saying that the compost being sterile not pasturrized will not be good as a bulk sub? In that case im thinking get them all colonized and spawn the rye and wbs to coco and verm, the compost/rye just in a tray
If there is rye or any kind of grain in the sterilized compost bag, then you can inoculate with spores syringes or lc (if the bag has an inoculation port). Better do it inside a SAB.
Edited by Mr. Alien (10/22/15 07:24 PM)
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fourleaf033
Stranger


Registered: 11/30/13
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22419991 - 10/22/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I fruit my spawn bags as cakes... works just like small cakes.
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jimbob989
Psilocybernaut

Registered: 10/12/15
Posts: 79
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: fourleaf033]
#22420080 - 10/22/15 08:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I read such conflicting reports on whether spore syringe thru self healing port needs a glove box or sab if you have a decently clean room. Its done now anyway. Golden teacher and Pf strain
-------------------- First Cyan (indeed first wild Psilocybe of any kind) that I ever did find! Oddly enough, she was alone, in a fairly dark coloured mix of compost and soil, where as every other cluster since was in light/alder type chips!
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: jimbob989]
#22420134 - 10/22/15 08:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Normally people make ports in jars so they can inoculate without a sab. But with substrates no precaution is too much.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#22420313 - 10/22/15 09:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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normally people do bags in front of flow hoods via g2g or use their SAB when doing agar to grain.
no matter if you use a ship or not you should still do it in a SAB. Best just learn to use the sab right away..
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fourleaf033
Stranger


Registered: 11/30/13
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: spacechildo]
#22434704 - 10/26/15 05:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is my rye grain cake.
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: fourleaf033]
#22435173 - 10/26/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's contaminated with bacteria.
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fourleaf033
Stranger


Registered: 11/30/13
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22437130 - 10/26/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Where do u see that?
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: fourleaf033]
#22437195 - 10/26/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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All that white shiny stuff is not mycelium, is bacteria. I'm trying to get an example for you to see.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
Posts: 7,076
Loc: to the brain
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22437206 - 10/26/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Alien said: All that white shiny stuff is not mycelium, is bacteria. I'm trying to get an example for you to see.
Looks more like mycogone...maybe not though http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17165834
--------------------
Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
Edited by LocN9ne (10/26/15 06:56 PM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22437212 - 10/26/15 06:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think he would have noticed the smell if he had that much bacteria on his cake. Does it seem like milk? Could be looking like that cuz he just misted it. Cant really see clearly in the pic thats true
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#22437247 - 10/26/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not all the bacteria smell like when you smell your contaminated spawn jars that smell like vinegar. Some of that white bacteria or whatever is called when it reach to the fruiting stage is really odorless.
This is bacteria.

Although i could be wrong and it could be trichoderma in its early stages when is white, but that white stuff on the OP Pic is not healthy myc.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22437289 - 10/26/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Alien said: that white stuff on the OP Pic is not healthy myc.
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: spacechildo]
#22437302 - 10/26/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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This bacterial substrate is more alike to the OP picture.

Image above courtesy of @TaGyo.
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fourleaf033
Stranger


Registered: 11/30/13
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22437332 - 10/26/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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It was misted just before the pic, heavily I might add. Smells real good like fresh mushies...when it gets dry, it is actually fluffy
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: fourleaf033]
#22437347 - 10/26/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, i'm telling ya.. some bacteria is odorless on the fruiting stage. I can't see a single mushroom growing on top of that white blobs. Why is that?
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fourleaf033
Stranger


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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22437493 - 10/26/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not that I don't believe you, because I really don't know. But from all the research I did, it would seem more like a mutation.
I guess only time can tell...
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fourleaf033
Stranger


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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: fourleaf033]
#22437515 - 10/26/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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fourleaf033
Stranger


Registered: 11/30/13
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: fourleaf033]
#22437529 - 10/26/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: fourleaf033]
#22437641 - 10/26/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I never heard of a mutated mycelium. I've heard of mutated fruits in the sense of different morphology, etc. (fruits are mycelium..). What your picture shows and the other pictures, it appears to be inhibiting fruiting at the surface where the anomaly is, pretty much sound like a bacteria or contam that is growing at surface level. PE cubes would produce some kind of blobs but they don't look like what you have.
This is PE blobs.

Edited by Mr. Alien (10/27/15 12:11 AM)
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22438478 - 10/27/15 12:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok i saw the last link you posted and pay attention what this guy says to the op of that thread
Quote:
Thrill said: Not really sure what the blobs are, they look like mutants, but in my experiences blob mutants are an off white/beige color (the color of a mushroom stem)
Is basically the color he is describing to the PE blobs on the last picture I showed you
So i think the op of that thread had also a contaminated substrate, these kind of white shiny looking contams are often easily mistaken by mycelium or "mutated mycelium" (that's a new one for me ) Because is also white like mycelium.
Also the OP of that thread never posted pictures of the fruiting stage, most probably was a fail.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22438557 - 10/27/15 01:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Alien said: Some of that white bacteria or whatever is called when it reach to the fruiting stage is really odorless.
Didn't know that.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#22438659 - 10/27/15 01:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dude that's bacteria.
But to clarify, the white stuff is not what the bacteria is. The white shit is the mycelium's morphological response to the bacteria, which is why different bacteria produce different outward results such as overly thick or brittle aerial mycelium, white blobs, or whatever it is you have there. It's mycelium but it's angry confused upset mycelium that won't be fruiting, because bacteria.
Make more sense?
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Inocuole]
#22438735 - 10/27/15 02:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Except that rye cake looks like it's pinning pretty well. I'd just roll with it. No harm. If you see it start to get any green, chuck it.
As for OP question:
As I understand it you have
1 Bag WBS
1 Bag Rye
1 Bag Compost
First off, you can't inoculate that compost with spore solution and expect a result. It's a bulk substrate, low in nutrition.
Fruiting grain bags will yield way less than spawning that same grain to bulk, since the grain lacks the water to capacity to flush its nutritional load by a long shot.
Noc both grain bags. If you can, just go grab a brick of coir from the pet shop for $3, hydrate with 4qt boiling water, and spawn the grains to that.
As others have said, if that compost is actually sterilized, you're going to need to spawn to it in a still air box/flow hood. It will probably be pretty awkward in the airbox. If it's pasteurized, than you're good to use it as a standard open air spawning bulk substrate.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Bacteria != trash. It just has a lower overall yield, and much easier to contam.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: Except that rye cake looks like it's pinning pretty well. I'd just roll with it. No harm. If you see it start to get any green, chuck it.
I meant, there's no pins coming off the parts that are busy contending with the bacteria. If there are any relatively unaffected areas those are the most likely to produce at that time. But you won't see a pin shooting right out of a bacterial blob or anything. The overall effect is, as was said, reduced yield.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Inocuole]
#22439009 - 10/27/15 05:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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lesson of the day, spawn your grain bags dont roll them in verm!
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Inocuole]
#22439406 - 10/27/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Dude that's bacteria.
But to clarify, the white stuff is not what the bacteria is. The white shit is the mycelium's morphological response to the bacteria, which is why different bacteria produce different outward results such as overly thick or brittle aerial mycelium, white blobs, or whatever it is you have there. It's mycelium but it's angry confused upset mycelium that won't be fruiting, because bacteria.
Make more sense?
That's a very good explanation, I thought something like that was happening because the different morphological responses you mentioned. Different bacteria, different response. Which also explains why the blobs smell like healthy myc and not like bacteria.
I thought that because the blobs were inhibiting fruiting... the blobs were the actual bacteria and odorless, but your explanation makes more sense.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Spawn bags to bulk or fruit as is? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22441422 - 10/27/15 06:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah it's noticeable when you accidentally bruise one of those weird ass spots.
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