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Devizome
A friend


Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 140
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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The Copying of Consciousness
#22418387 - 10/22/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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A few weeks ago I was conversing with my friend about a newer videogame he'd finished recently, Soma. He was explaining certain events and mechanics in the game that really got him thinking about the nature of human being and consciousness. I'm going to spoil some things in this game, so don't read this if you care about that.
The game begins with the main character getting a brain scan at some facility. The device lowers over his head, and when it comes back up the environment is completely different -- not the medical facility, but an underground facility in the future. What happened was, unknown to the main character, a copy of his consciousness (csns) was saved in a database for future activation in the event of a global catastrophic event which eliminates the human population. So, that happened, apparently, and the copy-csns was awoken. What's interesting, though, is the immediacy of it; there was no period of "unconsciousness", just a direct progression to the next aware state. Moving on.
The next point at which this concept is address is when the main character -- who has since realized that his csns now dwells in a man-made robotic body -- must transfer to a different body to complete a task. He successfully uploads his csns into the new body, but then notices his previous body unconscious on the floor. His companion, a female csns within a portable device who's been helping him this whole time, explains that he "won the coin toss", so now he can continue with the mission. The "other guy", copy-csns-1, would probably wake up sometime soon and wonder why, if the process didn't work, the new transfer body is gone as well as his companion. Eerie.
So now the main character is copy-csns-2 (the copy of the copy of the original csns). In the last moments of the game, he and his female companion are to upload their csns's to The Ark, a virtual reality generator meant to launch into space in hopes of preserving human csns. The process is engaged and completed, and...the main character watches as The Ark blasts off without him and his companion. But she explains that the mission was successful -- they simply "lost the coin toss". So that means copy-csns-3 is in The Ark, and copy-csns-2 gets to spend the rest of his battery-powered awareness trapped underground.
My question is, what do you think about this concept of copying csns? Can it even be done? If so, would it be like it was in this game? Let's say I wanted to upload my csns to a digital database so I could live there forever. Would that process inherently create a copy of my csns instead of transferring "me" into the database? Is there a way around this? That idea of "losing a coin toss" really creeps me out.
This concept also applies to teleportation, or at least from what I have heard of how it would work. The "you" that steps into one teleporter is disassembled and then something that looks and acts like you is reassembled and comes out the other end. But is that really you? Or is it a copy? But, in the case of teleportation, where there is no original body for the csns to dwell, perhaps the original csns would then proceed to the teleported form. Perhaps the "coin toss" only applies when there are two separate bodies that each house a very similar csns.
I have more to say, but I don't want this post to get too long. Please, let me know your thoughts
-------------------- Love & Respect, Devin
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: The Copying of Consciousness [Re: Devizome]
#22418425 - 10/22/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is all very interesting, and quite imaginative. I would think consciousness could definitely be copied, or saved/preserved. After all, it's all information. Reconstruct the information in a different place and, voila, there you are. I think the information is all that matters, not necessarily the physical substrate or substance the process is nested in.
The coin-toss is fun. I think really, you're fully conscious in both places, and whichever version of you is physically perceiving observes in perspective where he is. So there is always a winner and loser, simultaneously. If we're copying. It's sort of like Many-Worlds, very similar. Thanks for sharing.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Devizome
A friend


Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 140
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Reconstruct the information in a different place and, voila, there you are. I think the information is all that matters, not necessarily the physical substrate or substance the process is nested in.
Right, but let's say you, as in you in your current physical form, are still alive and aware at the time that your preserved csns becomes aware. The latter is not you, right? You would not experience what that copy experiences. You may not even know that it is aware.
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: The coin-toss is fun. I think really, you're fully conscious in both places, and whichever version of you is physically perceiving observes in perspective where he is. So there is always a winner and loser, simultaneously. If we're copying. It's sort of like Many-Worlds, very similar. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah, I think the winning or losing the coin toss is a subjective thing depending on which scenario you preferred. Do you think it would be possible to be aware of all of your presences simultaneously? Or is it the case that, once your csns splits, it is now a separate csns and no longer "you" because of its differing perspective?
-------------------- Love & Respect, Devin
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: The Copying of Consciousness [Re: Devizome]
#22418856 - 10/22/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Devizome said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Reconstruct the information in a different place and, voila, there you are. I think the information is all that matters, not necessarily the physical substrate or substance the process is nested in.
Right, but let's say you, as in you in your current physical form, are still alive and aware at the time that your preserved csns becomes aware. The latter is not you, right? You would not experience what that copy experiences. You may not even know that it is aware.
I would say the latter is not you, but that it has the same memories, personality traits, ways of perceiving, thought patterns, etc. You wouldn't normally know that it was aware, but things get tricky here -- see below.
Quote:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: The coin-toss is fun. I think really, you're fully conscious in both places, and whichever version of you is physically perceiving observes in perspective where he is. So there is always a winner and loser, simultaneously. If we're copying. It's sort of like Many-Worlds, very similar. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah, I think the winning or losing the coin toss is a subjective thing depending on which scenario you preferred. Do you think it would be possible to be aware of all of your presences simultaneously? Or is it the case that, once your csns splits, it is now a separate csns and no longer "you" because of its differing perspective?
The problem is ontological -- I mean, separating brain and consciousness. The functionality of one's brain does not necessarily determine the properties of one's consciousness. Now, if you believe in a soul, how does the soul get divided up? Is a new soul born? Or do you have some sort of fundamental diffusion across all of your csns'? I think probably, for practical purposes, each time consciousness gets copied you get a separate being. But can you somehow tune into yourself if you're at an advanced enough level of awareness -- or if you're high enough? I would not say definitely not. Of course, without experimental evidence it's very hard to say. But that's the question. So to answer your question possibly both.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
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Loc: Between
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Re: The Copying of Consciousness [Re: Devizome]
#22422271 - 10/23/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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We have no clue how, why or even if a self-consciousness/-awareness would travel into another body or object. My best guess is, that the copy indeed would think it would be you. The fatal thing is, as far as I see, that you don't share experiences, so you are still in your old body, looking through your own two eyes. If the copy now thinks, it is the real you and goes for killing you, then your experiences are going to be finished and you and your own consciousness will go void. It will live on in the copy, but sadly without you to experience it. You have nothing from the copy for living on. For you it is as if a stranger would continue living while you just died. Same for teleporters, btw 
There is a cool movie, I sadly don't remember the name of it, where a magician has found a way to copy himself. So he can reappear wherever he wants. The problem is, he had to kill the original afterwards everytime. The original agreed to be killed everytime in favour of the trick and after one copy, there was no original anyways anymore
Edited by BlueCoyote (10/23/15 10:17 AM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: The Copying of Consciousness [Re: BlueCoyote]
#22422302 - 10/23/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said: There is a cool movie, I sadly don't remember the name of it, where a magician has found a way to copy himself. So he can reappear wherever he wants. The problem is, he had to kill the original afterwards everytime, where the original agreed to be killed everytime in favour of the trick and after one copy, there was no original anyways anymore 
I think you're talking about The Prestige with Christian Bale and Hugh Jackman. David Bowie plays Tesla.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: The Copying of Consciousness [Re: Devizome]
#22422584 - 10/23/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Machio Kaku writes about this idea in his book The Future Of The Mind.
He also talks about it in this youtube video
I read the book, and I like his definition of consciousness, and I also like what he wrote about traveling across the universe. If we could transfer consciousness to a computer, then that information could be transferred via a laser at the speed of light. We could send machines that build things to distant areas of the universe. Then we could simply shine lasers with our consciousness to those areas and the machines that we sent there before could build a robot, to house our consciousness. Or, maybe this laser containing consciousness could make it through a wormhole or black hole and go to another universe or time or place in our own universe, or whatever is on the other side.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,805
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Re: The Copying of Consciousness [Re: Devizome]
#22424262 - 10/23/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't know about consciousness being copied because it's simply being aware but it could be possible to 'copy' someones conscience through a sharing of experience.
A worm is conscious and knows when it's been poked but it doesn't have a conscience.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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