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ZippoZ
Knomadic



Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan
#22416381 - 10/22/15 01:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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July 16, the US detonated the first atomic weapon in the world, dubbed Trinity.
On august 6th an atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima Japan. killing 80,000 people instantly, and an estimated double that over time.
That is only 3 weeks time, 21 days from the time the worst weapon in history was created, to the time it to decide to use that against a city.
on August 9th, another bomb was dropped on Nagasaki Japan, 40-80 thousand people died from that bombing.
These death tolls only reflect the people that died instantly, not those that lingered slow painful deaths from radiation poisoning and exposure. estimates range wildly from a hundred thousand to a quarter million.
The only point im trying to even address here, is the fact that it only took 21 days for man kind to develop a weapon capable of destroying the world, to use it.
looking at this, i dont see how there is any hope for humanity
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: ZippoZ]
#22416384 - 10/22/15 01:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Remember, the atom bomb came from the same place as poetry."
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Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: ZippoZ]
#22416388 - 10/22/15 01:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Actually it had been in development for some time prior to the first test, but it was wartime in very different times. Of course we've vastly improved our capabilities of mass destruction since then so yes, you do have a valid point. I would like to say at this point that I lost all hope for humanity years ago.
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 10 minutes, 35 seconds
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: ZippoZ]
#22416414 - 10/22/15 01:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I get that it was kind of fucked up to do, but there was a real reason it was done. In the long run, it was actually probably the best thing for both sides. Yes a lot of people died, but it was done to force Japan to surrender once and for all. Had we waged war in the fashion it was done through most of WWII, the death toll would have been much higher. Japan was getting ready to make their final stand and fight to the death. It was the lesser of two evils.
The fact that the program started much earlier than 21 days before the bombing on Japan aside, it was a pretty isolated incident that just happened to have all the right the right factors to end up being used only 21 days after it was "perfected". It says little about humanity, it says more about timing and circumstance.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 10 minutes, 35 seconds
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Shroomslip]
#22416423 - 10/22/15 01:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Okay, so I probably watched more of that video than you have. I was ready to outright dismiss it since the dude is religious, but I gave it a shot. I watched the first 4 minutes in full, where he explains why it was actually done. Your video literally only supports exactly what I just said. The Japanese were getting ready to fight tooth and nail on their own soil, that the casulty rates should we of engaged them in traditional combat would've been MUCH higher and that he decided to drop the bombs to force Japan to surrender.
EDIT: Lol, judging by the fact you deleted the post, I'm guessing you finally did watch the video and saw that it supported my claim and didn't prove me to be wrong in any way.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,856
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: ZippoZ] 3
#22416478 - 10/22/15 02:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not sure why it would be surprising that the bomb was dropped soon after the first successful test. It was being developed for use in the war after all.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Spanishfly
$$$Rich€€€Bich£££



Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 1,851
Loc: Spain
Last seen: 6 years, 26 days
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: ballsalsa]
#22416499 - 10/22/15 02:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can´t judge the actions of 1945 from the perspective of 2015.
-------------------- I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread. Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115 Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.
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twighead
mͯó



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 29,560
Loc: Glenn Gould's Fuck Windmill
Last seen: 2 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Spanishfly]
#22416584 - 10/22/15 03:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think it was mostly done as a show of force to the soviets.
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Spanishfly]
#22416659 - 10/22/15 04:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spanishfly said: You can´t judge the actions of 1945 from the perspective of 2015.
I like that
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: ZippoZ]
#22417259 - 10/22/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZippoZ said: July 16, the US detonated the first atomic weapon in the world, dubbed Trinity.
On august 6th an atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima Japan. killing 80,000 people instantly, and an estimated double that over time.
That is only 3 weeks time, 21 days from the time the worst weapon in history was created, to the time it to decide to use that against a city.
on August 9th, another bomb was dropped on Nagasaki Japan, 40-80 thousand people died from that bombing.
These death tolls only reflect the people that died instantly, not those that lingered slow painful deaths from radiation poisoning and exposure. estimates range wildly from a hundred thousand to a quarter million.
The only point im trying to even address here, is the fact that it only took 21 days for man kind to develop a weapon capable of destroying the world, to use it.
looking at this, i dont see how there is any hope for humanity
Dropping the bombs on Japan saved more lives than it took on both sides. The Japs were going to make our marines pay in blood for every inch of territory. Without the bomb at least a couple million more folks would have been killed, and at least as many Jap civilians from starvation, disease, and incidental bombings on industrial and military targets. Dropping the atom bomb on the Japanese was the most humane way to end the war for the good of everyone.
And what makes you think these bombs can end the world? Thats just poppycock. Since WW2 over 3500 atom and hydrogen bombs have been set off in nuclear tests by various counties and as far as I can tell there's more people now than ever.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Cj-B
All the same...I saw it first.



Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 4,479
Loc: The Library of Babel
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: twighead]
#22417350 - 10/22/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
twighead said: I think it was mostly done as a show of force to the soviets.
By the time we dropped the atomic bomb Japan was a flagging enemy by any standard. We had already pretty much annihilated their industrial capacity, their urban infrastructure and an enormous amount of residential areas via firebombing campaign. The idea that a land war would've been a long, brutal affair is laughable when Japan had millions of starving homeless people by 1945 and morale was crippled around the country. Combined with the fact that the US navy were blockading the Japanese shipping lines and supply routes while they were pounding said infrastructure into rubble + their failed crop of rice in 1945 causing widespread starvation/malnutrition they had absolutely no chance of resisting a US invasion.
-------------------- "I have no way of knowing whether you, who eventually will read this record, like stories or not. If you do not, no doubt you have turned these pages without attention. I confess that I love them. Indeed, it often seems to me that of all the good things in the world, the only ones humanity can claim for itself are stories and music; the rest, mercy, beauty, sleep, clean water and hot food (as the Ascian would have said) are all the work of the Increate. Thus, stories are small things indeed in the scheme of the universe, but it is hard not to love best what is our own—hard for me, at least."
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Cj-B]
#22417360 - 10/22/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cj-B said:
they had absolutely no chance of resisting a US invasion.
Thats what they said at Iwo Jima...
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,856
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Cj-B] 2
#22417364 - 10/22/15 09:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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They had no chance at Okinawa either, but they tried anyway, and it was quite nasty for all involved
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Cj-B
All the same...I saw it first.



Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 4,479
Loc: The Library of Babel
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#22417467 - 10/22/15 09:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
Cj-B said:
they had absolutely no chance of resisting a US invasion.
Thats what they said at Iwo Jima... 
Quote:
ballsalsa said: They had no chance at Okinawa either, but they tried anyway, and it was quite nasty for all involved
Perhaps I should clarify that they had no chance of resisting a US invasion for very long. We likely could've used our air dominance and our shipping blockades alone to starve them out without need for a land invasion, and even were we forced into a land invasion Japanese morale (civilian and military), supply lines, and weapons production capabilities were crippled.
Staging futile battles where you sacrifice all of your troops to inflict as many casualties as possible on the inevitable victors (only for them to slaughter 6-7+ of you for every one of them) is hardly a sustainable strategy for a war or a resistance against occupying forces. Especially when said victors can easily return the favor tenfold with a bare fraction of the casualties by firebombing population centers and important facilities and denying them crucial resources.
-------------------- "I have no way of knowing whether you, who eventually will read this record, like stories or not. If you do not, no doubt you have turned these pages without attention. I confess that I love them. Indeed, it often seems to me that of all the good things in the world, the only ones humanity can claim for itself are stories and music; the rest, mercy, beauty, sleep, clean water and hot food (as the Ascian would have said) are all the work of the Increate. Thus, stories are small things indeed in the scheme of the universe, but it is hard not to love best what is our own—hard for me, at least."
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Cj-B]
#22417476 - 10/22/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cj-B said: Perhaps I should clarify that they had no chance of resisting a US invasion for very long. We likely could've used our air dominance and our shipping blockades alone to starve them out without need for a land invasion, and even were we forced into a land invasion Japanese morale (civilian and military), supply lines, and weapons production capabilities were crippled.
Staging futile battles where you sacrifice all of your troops to inflict as many casualties as possible on the inevitable victors (only for them to slaughter 6-7+ of you for every one of them) is hardly a sustainable strategy for a war or a resistance against occupying forces. Especially when said victors can easily return the favor tenfold with a bare fraction of the casualties by firebombing population centers and important facilities and denying them crucial resources.
If this is the position you take then you must certainly agree that the use of the bomb saved more lives than it took. The horrors and mass deaths in grisly manners you described especially in the second paragraph are far worse than the destruction of those two Japanese cities.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,542
Loc: United States
Last seen: 5 seconds
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22417504 - 10/22/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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21 days? damn we musta had a ton of other super secret bases enriching uranium that we dont know about and plans from aliens at area 51.
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Cj-B
All the same...I saw it first.



Registered: 07/16/11
Posts: 4,479
Loc: The Library of Babel
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#22417534 - 10/22/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
Cj-B said: Perhaps I should clarify that they had no chance of resisting a US invasion for very long. We likely could've used our air dominance and our shipping blockades alone to starve them out without need for a land invasion, and even were we forced into a land invasion Japanese morale (civilian and military), supply lines, and weapons production capabilities were crippled.
Staging futile battles where you sacrifice all of your troops to inflict as many casualties as possible on the inevitable victors (only for them to slaughter 6-7+ of you for every one of them) is hardly a sustainable strategy for a war or a resistance against occupying forces. Especially when said victors can easily return the favor tenfold with a bare fraction of the casualties by firebombing population centers and important facilities and denying them crucial resources.
If this is the position you take then you must certainly agree that the use of the bomb saved more lives than it took. The horrors and mass deaths in grisly manners you described especially in the second paragraph are far worse than the destruction of those two Japanese cities.
It likely saved a great deal of Japanese lives, yes. Probably hundreds of thousands, with a few 10s of thousands of American soldiers saved. I highly doubt that the reason they were dropped was to save lives in the long run though. It simply doesn't make any sense to me when victory is so close at hand without much further input from the US military to drop a strateguc trump card like an atomic bomb. Especially since casualties in the Pacific were comparatively light when faced with the European theatres numbers. The American populace at the time certainly didn't give a shit if the Japanese died in horrific numbers, so long as retribution for Pearl Harbor was extracted. It makes a great deal more sense to use the trump card to finish off a weakened enemy to get a much more powerful enemy/uneasy ally (the Soviets) to back off. Nagasaki was just showing off that we should replicate the feat at will, rather than the nuke being a one-off win button, further crushing Japan's will to fight and forcing the Soviets away from direct confrontation...at least til they had nukes of their own anyway.
-------------------- "I have no way of knowing whether you, who eventually will read this record, like stories or not. If you do not, no doubt you have turned these pages without attention. I confess that I love them. Indeed, it often seems to me that of all the good things in the world, the only ones humanity can claim for itself are stories and music; the rest, mercy, beauty, sleep, clean water and hot food (as the Ascian would have said) are all the work of the Increate. Thus, stories are small things indeed in the scheme of the universe, but it is hard not to love best what is our own—hard for me, at least."
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Uzziel
O_o


Registered: 12/30/10
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: ZippoZ] 2
#22417610 - 10/22/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Japan was never going to surrender unless drastic measures were taken. They kept the war going even after Germany was defeated.
Why should we have to die for their fight? They forced us to fight them with pearl harbor and they forced us to drop the bomb on them.
They weren't even going to stop. We bluffed them into thinking we had more atomic bombs.
Japan wasn't going to quit.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


Registered: 07/28/10
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Uzziel] 1
#22417698 - 10/22/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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They started it we finished it boo fucking hoo
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twighead
mͯó



Registered: 08/27/08
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Re: It only took the United States 21 days to test the first atomic bomb, and then drop it on Japan [Re: Uzziel]
#22418156 - 10/22/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Uzziel said: Japan was never going to surrender unless drastic measures were taken. They kept the war going even after Germany was defeated.
Why should we have to die for their fight? They forced us to fight them with pearl harbor and they forced us to drop the bomb on them.
They weren't even going to stop. We bluffed them into thinking we had more atomic bombs.
Japan wasn't going to quit.
I think you guys are missing the point - All historical record shows that privately - most of the Japanese rulers really did want to surrender even if they publicly said they didn't, however they wanted to negotiate with the Soviets instead of the Americans since they were a lot more neutral - So by dropping the bomb the US forced negotiation with themselves which had the dual purpose of denying soviet gains and promoting US interests. Plus we got to test our bombs on a two different kinds of cities which was also a factor in the target choice.
'It should be clearly made known to Russia that she owes her victory over Germany to Japan, since we remained neutral, and that it would be to the advantage of the Soviets to help Japan maintain her international position, since they have the United States as an enemy in the future'
-Prime Minister: Admiral Kantarō Suzuki
Edited by twighead (10/22/15 01:04 PM)
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