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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Registered: 11/03/03
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Global Elite-Conspiracy
    #2241446 - 01/14/04 01:30 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/011004Hasty/011004hasty.html

I am already convinced that the global elite are at least trying to create a one world fascist state, but maybe this article will help others come to the same conclusion. Unless someone will point out to me what parts of this article are fabricated, I cannot imagine why anybody would just brush it off as more "crazy conspiracy talk."


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2241486 - 01/14/04 01:58 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2241538 - 01/14/04 02:22 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

25% fact, 75% garbage.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2241541 - 01/14/04 02:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Which parts specifically did you feel were garbage?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (01/14/04 02:24 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2241550 - 01/14/04 02:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I agree that there is an elite class which basically rules the world, but I'm not so sure I'd call it a conspiracy. Many such people may not even be aware of the degree of power they hold. Society often has a mind of its own, independent of its constituents.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Rono]
    #2241552 - 01/14/04 02:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Hold on...give me a few minutes to re-read, paste, and comment.
This might take a while.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2241556 - 01/14/04 02:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Take your time... for the record...I don't think this article is 100% correct, but it does raise alot of debate worthy points.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: silversoul7]
    #2241616 - 01/14/04 02:44 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

yeah. I think the word conspiracy is overused by certain people. it's like how they call PNAC a conspiracy, but how can it be a CONSPIRACY when they TELL YOU exactly what they want to do, right there on their website!?


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Anonymous

Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2241666 - 01/14/04 03:00 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I believe it.

:devil:


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Rono]
    #2241738 - 01/14/04 03:20 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, here goes for starters...


Years, even decades before 9/11, plans had been drawn up for American
forces to take control of the oil interests of the Middle East, for
various imperialist reasons.

There were plans sitting on the shelf for the conquest of
Russia...yet did that ever happen? Governments plan for every
contingency. Just because they plan for it, doesn't mean there
is some horrible conspiracy to do it.

I have a feeling the "plans" he is referring to are when Kissinger
suggested military action in the Middle East during the 70's
embargo. Did that ever happen? An official mouthing off during a
crisis or some plan sitting on a shelf somewhere is not indication of
a consistent and planned imperialist strategy.


Recently declassified US government documents, unearthed last October
by investigative journalist John Buchanan at the New Hampshire
Gazette, reveal that Prescott Bush's involvement in financing and
arming the Nazis was more extensive than previously known.

So what? A shitload of companies did business with Nazi Germany and
had factories over there...even during the war. Some American
companies even sued the American government for bombing those
factories in Germany.


Like all the other Bush scandals that have been swept under the rug
in the privatized censorship of the corporate media,


Huh...??? I have seen all kinds of negative reports on shady things
in Bush's past. I have heard tons of reports on Iran-Contra, on Bush
Jr's alcoholism and questionable military service, and on Jeb's
savings and loan adventures.


But Prescott Bush's dealings with the Nazis do more than illustrate a
family pattern of genteel treason and war profiteering—from
George Senior's sale of TOW missiles to Iran at the same time he was
selling biological and chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein

George Senior was not in charge of TOW missiles being sent to Iran.
Admiral Stockdale and Colonel North were. And we kissed Saddam's ass
because he was the enemy of our enemy. Admittedly, the U.S. got
into bed with some really scummy dictators. Most powers on
this earth have done that at one time or another.


A conservative, authoritarian style, with public appearances in
military uniform (which no previous American president has ever done
while in office).

??? He flew onto an aircraft carrier, therefore he wore a flight
suit. So what? When he went to go visit troops, he might have been
wearing some fatigues...so what?


Contempt for international law and treaties.

This I can agree with.


Suspiciously convenient "terrorist" attacks,

What about suspiciously convenient conspiracy theories emanating from
the Left-Wing press?


A carefully manufactured image of "The Leader," who's still just
a "regular guy" and a "moderate."

Every U.S. president in recent memory has strived for that
appearance. So what? Every president in recent memory has
people who are in charge of crafting an image for the him.
So what?


What perplexes me most is probably the same question that plagues
most paranoiacs: why don't other people see these connections?

Because, I am not a brainwashed Lefty.


It would be a lot of work. It would also require critical mass. A
paradigm shift.

Isn't paradigm a word that stupid people use in order to sound intelligent?
(A "Simpsons" quote)


That the Council on Foreign Relations has a history of influence on
official US government foreign policy

Well...jeez...that's their job. To formulate opinions on foreign
policy. It is up to the administration to listen to them or ignore
them.


that the protection of US supplies of Middle East oil has been a
central element of American foreign policy since the Second World War

Well no shit. America runs on oil. We need it. So, the protection
of Middle Eastern oil supplies is of concern to us.


That whether it's heroin from Southeast Asia in the '60s and '70s, or
cocaine from Central America and heroin from Afghanistan in the '80s,
or cocaine from Colombia in the '90s, or heroin from Afghanistan
today no major CIA covert operation has ever lacked a drug smuggling
component, and that the CIA has hired Nazis, fascists, drug dealers,
arms smugglers, mass murderers, perverts, sadists, terrorists and the
Mafia, is not "theory." It's fact.

Admittedly, the CIA has done some nasty shit.


That the 2000 presidential election was deliberately stolen

I have seen no proof of that.


that corporate media were then virtually silent about the Florida
recount

Where the hell was this guy at that time? Virtually silent about the
recount???? That's all that was in the news for a couple of weeks.


and that the Bush 2000 team had planned to challenge the legitimacy
of the election if George W had won the popular, but lost the
electoral vote

So what? G.W. wanted to win, just like Gore did. Gore challenged
the fuck out of everything that was going on(he had lawyers
everywhere bringing forth all kinds of motions). G.W. would have
gone through legal challenges too if he thought he was the winner and
he lost.


That the intelligence about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was
deceptively "cooked" by the Bush administration;

This is probably true.


Iraq today are applying the same brutal counterinsurgency tactics
pioneered in Central America in the 1980s, under the direct
supervision of then-Vice President George HW Bush, is not a "theory."

We are in a war. People are killing our troops. Brutal tactics are
going to occur.


That "Rebuilding America's Defenses," the Project for a New American
Century's 2000 report, and "The Grand Chessboard," a book published a
few years earlier by Trilateral Commission co-founder Zbigniew
Brzezinski, both recommended a more robust and imperial US military
presence in the oil basin of the Middle East and the Caspian region;
and that both also suggested that American public support for this
energy crusade would depend on public response to a new "Pearl
Harbor," is not "theory." It's fact.

This is the stupidest assumption I have ever seen. I have read that
report. The report in no way suggests that a new "Pearl Harbor" must
happen, it merely acknowledges the undeniable fact that if a
new "Pearl Harbor" were to happen, the political and military
landscape would be inexorably changed. Nowhere in that report did I
get the feeling that the writer was hoping for or suggesting a
new "Pearl Harbor" in order to implement certain policies.


That, in the 1960s, the Joint Chiefs of Staff unanimously approved a
plan called "Operation Northwoods," to stage terrorist attacks on
American soil that could be used to justify an invasion of Cuba; and
that there is currently an office in the Pentagon whose function is
to instigate terrorist attacks that could be used to justify future
strategically-desired military responses, is not a "theory." It's
fact.

What does some 40 year old hairbrained scheme have to do with what is
going in today?


George H.W. Bush was meeting in Washington with representatives of
Osama bin Laden's family, and other investors in the world's largest
private equity firm, the Carlyle Group;

Osama has been disowned by his family. His family is very rich and
powerful. It is no surprise that Osama's family has dealings in
international business stuff.


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Anonymous

Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2241916 - 01/14/04 04:30 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

nice work. that article was quite a load of shit.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: ]
    #2241955 - 01/14/04 04:45 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't notice any lies in that article..it was admittedly biased, but it was all true in my opinion.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2242025 - 01/14/04 05:12 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Nice job showing what a hack job that biased writer tried to pass.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2242051 - 01/14/04 05:21 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

So what part was lies again?...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Rono]
    #2242090 - 01/14/04 05:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Is "hack job" now the definition for lies in Canoodia?

I didn't realize it was different now.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2242112 - 01/14/04 05:38 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Please elaborate what you mean by Hack job...his writing style?...since by your above comment it would seem that you are not disputing anything he stated as a fact,


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Rono]
    #2242140 - 01/14/04 05:47 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Sure, be glad to. However since Randal has already pointed out the inaccuracies, half truths and omissions, it would be a waste of space for me to copy and paste them. I'll do so if you like however.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2242165 - 01/14/04 05:59 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Please point out the inaccuracies...and I would still like your definition of "Hack Job"...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2242194 - 01/14/04 06:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Governments plan for every
contingency. Just because they plan for it, doesn't mean there is some horrible conspiracy to do it.




True...but by that logic, it doesn't mean that there isn't either.

Quote:

So what? A shitload of companies did business with Nazi Germany and had factories over there...



Again...very true. But are they in charge of the worlds only superpower now?

Quote:

Huh...??? I have seen all kinds of negative reports on shady things
in Bush's past. I have heard tons of reports on Iran-Contra, on Bush Jr's alcoholism and questionable military service, and on Jeb's savings and loan adventures.




Yet even after reading about all the 'known' shady deals, you still think that Bush family has the countrys best interests in mind...and not their own?..interesting.

Quote:

George Senior was not in charge of TOW missiles being sent to Iran.
Admiral Stockdale and Colonel North were. And we kissed Saddam's ass
because he was the enemy of our enemy. Admittedly, the U.S. got into bed with some really scummy dictators. Most powers on this earth have done that at one time or another.


As the president..he was responsible.

Quote:

He flew onto an aircraft carrier, therefore he wore a flight suit. So what? When he went to go visit troops, he might have been wearing some fatigues...so what?



This I agree with...it shouldn't have even been made an issue...although it seemed pretty tacky on his behalf.

Quote:

Well no shit. America runs on oil. We need it. So, the protection of Middle Eastern oil supplies is of concern to us.



Finally someone who is honest...Which brings us back to the point that the Iraq war was for Oil...not liberating the Iraqis, not for WMD's...oil.

Quote:

This is the stupidest assumption I have ever seen. I have read that
report. The report in no way suggests that a new "Pearl Harbor" must
happen, it merely acknowledges the undeniable fact that if a
new "Pearl Harbor" were to happen, the political and military
landscape would be inexorably changed. Nowhere in that report did I
get the feeling that the writer was hoping for or suggesting a
new "Pearl Harbor" in order to implement certain policies.



How else would the PATRIOT act have gotten passed so quickly before anyone actually had a chance to review it?...Makes perfect sense to me.

Quote:

What does some 40 year old hairbrained scheme have to do with what is going in today?



It has EVERYTHING to do with what is going on today...it proves that your government is not above staging attacks on it's own people in order to further it's agenda.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Rono]
    #2242206 - 01/14/04 06:17 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Like all the other Bush scandals that have been swept under the rug in the privatized censorship of the corporate media,

That the 2000 presidential election was deliberately stolen

that corporate media were then virtually silent about the Florida recount




There's 3. I copied them from Randal's post as the original displays aboot 1" wide for some reason. Too tough on my old eyes to read a second time.

Hack job.... poorly written, has inaccuracies, omissions and half truths. Poorly done. Lame. Biased.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Rono]
    #2242217 - 01/14/04 06:20 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


He flew onto an aircraft carrier, therefore he wore a flight suit. So what? When he went to go visit troops, he might have been wearing some fatigues...so what?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This I agree with...it shouldn't have even been made an issue...although it seemed pretty tacky on his behalf.




So let him know how you feel. Maybe next time he'll wear a tux on the plane and hunter safety orange in Iraq.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Rono]
    #2242282 - 01/14/04 06:47 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)


Governments plan for every contingency. Just because they plan for
it, doesn't mean there is some horrible conspiracy to do it.


True...but by that logic, it doesn't mean that there isn't either.

True.


So what? A shitload of companies did business with Nazi Germany and
had factories over there...


Again...very true. But are they in charge of the worlds only
superpower now?

This guy seems to insinuate that repeatedly, all the while
offering nothing but innuendo and conspiracies.


Huh...??? I have seen all kinds of negative reports on shady things
in Bush's past. I have heard tons of reports on Iran-Contra, on Bush
Jr's alcoholism and questionable military service, and on Jeb's
savings and loan adventures.


Yet even after reading about all the 'known' shady deals, you still
think that Bush family has the countrys best interests in mind...and
not their own?..interesting.

I never claimed to know what goes on in the mind of G.W. Bush,
or his family members. I believe the reasons he chose to invade Iraq
were purely political and of interest to the U.S. Am I saying he
was right? No. Am I saying I am even right on this? No. But,
as of now there is not concrete evidence to support what this guy is
attempting to say.


George Senior was not in charge of TOW missiles being sent to Iran.
Admiral Stockdale and Colonel North were.


As the president..he was responsible.

This occurred during the Reagan adminstration. George senior was
not the president.


Well no shit. America runs on oil. We need it. So, the protection of
Middle Eastern oil supplies is of concern to us.


Finally someone who is honest...Which brings us back to the point
that the Iraq war was for Oil...not liberating the Iraqis, not for
WMD's...oil.

Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't. Oil is definately a factor whenever
the U.S. does ANYTHING in the Middle East. But, the idea that this
war was purely for taking Iraq's oil and profiteering, has not been
proven or even made feasible. I think there were a lot of political
reasons for this war(I listed them in another thread).


The report in no way suggests that a new "Pearl Harbor" must
happen, it merely acknowledges the undeniable fact that if a
new "Pearl Harbor" were to happen, the political and military
landscape would be inexorably changed. Nowhere in that report did I
get the feeling that the writer was hoping for or suggesting a
new "Pearl Harbor" in order to implement certain policies.


How else would the PATRIOT act have gotten passed so quickly before
anyone actually had a chance to review it?...Makes perfect sense to
me.

It was passed so quickly because of the outrage of the American
public and elected officials. Over-exaggerated backlash often
occurs when dealing with a tragic situation.

The bottom line is that this guy is saying that certain members of the
government intentionally let 9/11 happen. There is no proof of this.
All of the things he is using as "proof" are innuendo at best.


What does some 40 year old hairbrained scheme have to do with what is
going in today?


It has EVERYTHING to do with what is going on today...it proves that
your government is not above staging attacks on it's own people in
order to further it's agenda.

What does the government of 40 years ago(that was made up of
completely different officials than now) have to do with the
government of today? His assertion(if true) does not prove that
9/11 happened with government complicity. It proves that 40 years
ago some completely different people came up with a fucked up idea.

If this guy is going to claim that the world is run by a few powerful
people who do all kinds of horrible stuff in order to consolidate
power, he should show ample proof. Instead he takes some "facts"
(some of which I doubt), adds a bunch of bias, and comes up with
a viewpoint that does not hold up to scrutiny. As luvdem said,
this guy is a hack.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2242294 - 01/14/04 06:51 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

But, as of now there is not concrete evidence to support what this guy is attempting to say.



Evidence?

EVIDENCE?

Lefties don need no stinkin evidence!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2242398 - 01/14/04 07:39 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

This has nothing to do with left/right. You'll find plenty of right wing (particularly libertarian) conspiracy whack jobs.

What this boils down to is... BULLSHIT. The article is basically taking a bunch of facts, and claiming that they are evidence of something which they are obviously not.

For instance:

"Nor, finally, is it in any way a "theory" that the one, single name that can be directly linked to the Third Reich, the US military industrial complex, Skull and Bones, Eastern Establishment good ol' boys, the Illuminati, Big Texas Oil, the Bay of Pigs, the Miami Cubans, the Mafia, the FBI, the JFK assassination, the New World Order, Watergate, the Republican National Committee, Eastern European fascists, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the United Nations, CIA headquarters, the October Surprise, the Iran/Contra scandal, Inslaw, the Christic Institute, Manuel Noriega, drug-running "freedom fighters" and death squads, Iraqgate, Saddam Hussein, weapons of mass destruction, the blood of innocents, the savings and loan crash, the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, the "Octopus," the "Enterprise," the Afghan mujaheddin, the War on Drugs, Mena (Arkansas), Whitewater, Sun Myung Moon, the Carlyle Group, Osama bin Laden and the Saudi royal family, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, and the presidency and vice-presidency of the United States, is: George Herbert Walker Bush. "

Why is Bush connected with these things? Because he's the fucking president of the United States! It's his job to be involved with all the major organizations around the world.

Why are the heads of major corporations friends? Because they're rich. There are only a handful of private schools that can be considered the best in the nation, so guess where the rich and powerful send their kids. They meet, remain friends for life. Does this result in a few people getting preferencial deals and what not? Of course. Is this evidence that they're conspiring together to take over the world and turn it into a police state? Only if you're a moron who likes jumping to conclusions based on little or no evidence.

The article talks about the fact that the major media doesn't discuss conspiracy theories as if this were evidence they were in on the whole thing. What would they report, anyways?

"This just in, the heads of major corporations are good friends, and have been known to meet with powerful people in government. According to Joe46 of conspiracies.com, this is evidence of a massive global plot that incorporates the media, oil companies, the UN, and governments around the world to take control of the planet and form a single world government. When asked to back this up with evidence, Joe46 responded 'Just look around you, man'. This is frightening stuff. Back to you, Brian."

Bull-shiiiieet.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Phluck]
    #2242422 - 01/14/04 07:50 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

This has nothing to do with left/right.



Perhaps you missed "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre".

In it a statement was made which has been misquoted for years. My comment was a paraphrase of that which was intended in a humorous way.

Glad to see you agree the way the article was written is crap. (that's hack job for a certain Canoodian)


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/14/04 07:54 PM)


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2242473 - 01/14/04 08:22 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, I got the "badges" reference, I just wanted to make it clear that stupidity crosses political boundaries. It's a magical force that unites us all.

Anyways,
The guy is claiming it's a "fact" for chrissakes, it goes way beyond hack job. Obviously this moron has no idea what constitutes evidence. Imagine he was trying to build a court case based on the kind of "evidence" he's presented here. This idiot would be laughed out of the courtroom.

There's a reason conspiracy theorists aren't taken seriously, and it has nothing to do with secret government agencies holding them down.

If you want to criticize the government and explore Bush's idiocy, I think that's great, but you've got to follow certain rules. I mean, if there's a far more logical explanation for what you see, then it's stupid to just assume the wild story you've come up with is correct, and if that's stupid, then reporting your assumptions as true fact is irresponsible, unprofessional and downright ignorant.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Phluck]
    #2242485 - 01/14/04 08:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Obviously this moron has no idea what constitutes evidence.



Sad just how common that is these days.


Quote:

then reporting your assumptions as true fact is irresponsible, unprofessional and downright ignorant.



Wise words. Too bad many, including some here, don't get it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2244134 - 01/15/04 03:08 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Anyone who took this article seriously care to respond now?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Phluck]
    #2244228 - 01/15/04 04:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I'm typing up a response now- expect it around 10-11.


Edited by TrueBrode (01/15/04 04:32 PM)


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2244977 - 01/15/04 10:47 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

There were plans sitting on the shelf for the conquest of
Russia...yet did that ever happen? Governments plan for every
contingency. Just because they plan for it, doesn't mean there
is some horrible conspiracy to do it.


No no no, free governments do not entail a select group of elite politicians planning wars, and then presenting them to their people in a new light to gain mass approval.  You can use the past and status quo of governmental affairs to justify as much as you want, but us people that care about our freedoms and futures are not willing to accept this blatant manipulation. 

I have a feeling the "plans" he is referring to are when Kissinger
suggested military action in the Middle East during the 70's
embargo. Did that ever happen? An official mouthing off during a
crisis or some plan sitting on a shelf somewhere is not indication of
a consistent and planned imperialist strategy.


I don't know what the author's talking about there, there were always plans to cozy up in the Middle East, but we do know of the PNAC agenda, which is out in the open, and just recently, Paul O Neil came forward, with documents (though I have not read his book yet so I don’t know what they say, but supposedly they support his assertion), telling that Bush wanted to invade Iraq before 911.  This is not some off the cuff comment; this is a man using an event to jumpstart wars he always wanted.  And just a little side note- Cheney is really the one who is making out from all this. 

We all know of Dick Cheney’s involvement with Halliburton (he was CEO from 1995-2000 for those of you living under a rock), which is just fine and dandy as it is, but  that is not the interesting part- even though he is under fire for his problems related to that now.  Did you know that Halliburton has a subsidiary company called Brown and Root.  Do you know what they dabble in?  “Peacekeeping Operations.”  They profit from war- if you don’t know what peacekeeping operations entail then do some research.  That aside, you may still be saying: “so what, they profit a little from war, and Cheney happens to be involved with a company involved with them.”  Well first of all, if it was just one minor overlooked connection, then that would be another story, but it is not like that, again and again we see the same thing from the government elite, and again and again they seem to do things that benefit them, not thinking anything of the people, just the all mighty dollar. 

During the first Gulf War, Cheney was Secretary of Defense under George Bush Sr.  Cheney was Secretary of Defense (keep in mind he was involved with Halliburton at this point too), he is the one in charge of the Gulf War, and he bombs the Iraqi oil infrastructure.  Then who goes in their with all the contracts to rebuild, wow, you guessed it, none other than Halliburton.  And who is CEO about five years later, wow you guessed it, Dick Cheney!  And what is happening right now in Iraq and Afghanistan?  THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENED IN THE GULF WAR!  AND WHO IS PROFITING FROM THIS?  THE SAME FAMILIES THAT BENEFITTED FROM THE FIRST GULF WAR! 

They just did the same underhanded business move twice!

So what? A shitload of companies did business with Nazi Germany and
had factories over there...even during the war. Some American
companies even sued the American government for bombing those
factories in Germany.


If you knew a little about this, you would have been able to actually call this piece of the article a blatant half-truth, instead of trying to justify justify justify your way to proof!  But since you obviously do not believe in research, I will make the point for you. 

Prescott Bush was on the board of the Union Bank, which was partially owned by a Dutch bank, which was also a conglomeration of a German Steel company owned by a man named Thyssen.  Thyssen broke with the company in 1938 after he found out about the Jews treatment and fled.  However, the Dutch company’s shares were owned by, you guessed it, members of the Union Bank Board of Directors- Harriman and Prescott Bush, who kept on with the business until the United States Government seized it under the Trading With The Enemy Act in 1942.  Now if you had any idea what you were talking about, you would have been able to point out that Prescott Bush owned just ONE share of those 4000, while Harriman held virtually all of the remaining stock.  That detail alone is enough to relieve Prescott of any immediate connection to a conspiracy of funding the Nazis, as does the fact that he was not directly funding the Nazis.  What is interesting, is that he went on with this involvement as far as he could before the government forced seizure- now there is no way to prove he knew what was going on in Germany, with the company and banking connections, or even knew what his involvement entailed, but it is damn hard to believe he didn’t!  The only reason the government did not take action against them was that they had no resources to do it, remember… they were fighting a pretty big war.

George Senior was not in charge of TOW missiles being sent to Iran.
Admiral Stockdale and Colonel North were. And we kissed Saddam's ass
because he was the enemy of our enemy. Admittedly, the U.S. got
into bed with some really scummy dictators. Most powers on
this earth have done that at one time or another.


Well, the Iran Contra scandal is complex and while Bush Sr. may not have been “in direct charge” of the TOW missile operation and other Iran Contra events, he most surely knew they were going on- which he lies about until this day.  He was in the fucking meeting with Reagan, North and Weinberg on May 16, 1986 when they were discussing the press catching on to the whole operation- what, do you think the former CIA director was in there making sandwiches for everybody?  He was the power behind the Reagan Presidential Administration, he was the guy with the CIA ties= he knew what the fuck was going on!  And then, as if that is not enough, he met with some Israeli terrorism person in King David Hotel about the arms deal, which he claims was an anti-terrorism meeting!  You can buy the lies all you want, but Bush knew about Iran Contra, and he had some part in it, and it is just absolutely beyond me how anybody can let that pass.  However, I will concede that the article went to far with that claim- the evidence is there, there is no need to embellish like that.

Huh...??? I have seen all kinds of negative reports on shady things
in Bush's past. I have heard tons of reports on Iran-Contra, on Bush
Jr's alcoholism and questionable military service, and on Jeb's
savings and loan adventures.


Yeah I agree with you there to an extent, but not nearly as much reporting has been done on the Bush Administration’s ties to corporate giants such as Halliburton, save the quick snippet here and there.  I guess nobody seems to care either, which is a pity.

And we kissed Saddam's ass
because he was the enemy of our enemy. Admittedly, the U.S. got
into bed with some really scummy dictators. Most powers on
this earth have done that at one time or another.


The U.S. did?  Haha no, a few select members of the Reagan (really Bush) administration did, and CIA was always willing to let Saddam go about as he pleased- they always loved him.  If you want to blame their total carelessness/monetary drive of selling weapons on an entire government representing hundreds of millions than you fail to see the problem.

??? He flew onto an aircraft carrier, therefore he wore a flight
suit. So what? When he went to go visit troops, he might have been
wearing some fatigues...so what?


This was taken out of one aspect of the author’s lovely, and accurate comparison to Hitler.

Every U.S. president in recent memory has strived for that
appearance. So what? Every president in recent memory has
people who are in charge of crafting an image for the him.
So what?


There is no problem with that, everything he does and represents is quite like a socialist dictator, that is his image, no problem.

Because, I am not a brainwashed Lefty.

I am a republican. :eek:

Well...jeez...that's their job. To formulate opinions on foreign
policy. It is up to the administration to listen to them or ignore
them.


Wait a minute, who the hell asked for groups of elite politicians and businessman to sit in meetings that (at first were completely secret, and some group’s still are) to decide our foreign policy based on their economic gain.  It may be a legal thing to do, but it is damn low, and something needs to be done.

Well no shit. America runs on oil. We need it. So, the protection
of Middle Eastern oil supplies is of concern to us.


Yeah as long as your car is running, war is justified.  Lies are justified.  Secrecy is justified. 

Admittedly, the CIA has done some nasty shit.

Thank God you can see that!

I have seen no proof of that. (in reference to the 2000 election being stolen)

Ok, I have to agree with you there, I did not like that turn in the article.

So what? G.W. wanted to win, just like Gore did. Gore challenged
the fuck out of everything that was going on(he had lawyers
everywhere bringing forth all kinds of motions). G.W. would have
gone through legal challenges too if he thought he was the winner and
he lost.


Yeah, agreed.  As stated above I did not like this turn in the article.

This is the stupidest assumption I have ever seen. I have read that
report. The report in no way suggests that a new "Pearl Harbor" must
happen, it merely acknowledges the undeniable fact that if a
new "Pearl Harbor" were to happen, the political and military
landscape would be inexorably changed. Nowhere in that report did I
get the feeling that the writer was hoping for or suggesting a
new "Pearl Harbor" in order to implement certain policies.


Have you read The Grand Chessboard?

What does some 40 year old hairbrained scheme have to do with what is
going in today?


This is a very important document.  It is proof that ideas of using terrorism to gain mass approval for wars was an idea floating around the military industrial complex 40 years ago.  You do know who shot that idea down don’t you?

Osama has been disowned by his family

That I did not know, and admit is a compelling fact that I will do more research on.

It was passed so quickly because of the outrage of the American
public and elected officials. Over-exaggerated backlash often
occurs when dealing with a tragic situation.


Bills passed without even being read by most of congress, that completely obliterate due process, are pretty damn underhanded and DO NOT MAKE SENSE, but this is no worse than what we’ve seen in prior times of war and paranoia, I will admit that.



Why are the heads of major corporations friends? Because they're rich. There are only a handful of private schools that can be considered the best in the nation, so guess where the rich and powerful send their kids. They meet, remain friends for life. Does this result in a few people getting preferencial deals and what not? Of course. Is this evidence that they're conspiring together to take over the world and turn it into a police state? Only if you're a moron who likes jumping to conclusions based on little or no evidence.

The article talks about the fact that the major media doesn't discuss conspiracy theories as if this were evidence they were in on the whole thing. What would they report, anyways?

"This just in, the heads of major corporations are good friends, and have been known to meet with powerful people in government. According to Joe46 of conspiracies.com, this is evidence of a massive global plot that incorporates the media, oil companies, the UN, and governments around the world to take control of the planet and form a single world government. When asked to back this up with evidence, Joe46 responded 'Just look around you, man'. This is frightening stuff. Back to you, Brian."

Bull-shiiiieet.


That’s a lot of writing that says nothing.  Do you want to present some evidence, some facts, some research, some anything, or just write more condescending posts that get us nowhere.  Really, persuade me, I HAVE NO PERSONAL PRIDE TO LOSE HERE.  UNLIKE YOU, DISCUSSION AND ARGUING ARE NOT CONTESTS TO MAKE ME FEEL BETTER.  So either state your cases, point me to the flaws, or debate with me so that I can better understand the truth. 

Obviously this moron has no idea what constitutes evidence.

Ad hominem

The guy is claiming it's a "fact" for chrissakes, it goes way beyond hack job. Obviously this moron has no idea what constitutes evidence. Imagine he was trying to build a court case based on the kind of "evidence" he's presented here. This idiot would be laughed out of the courtroom.

Wait… like you claiming it is bullshit five times make your view a CASE all of the sudden.  Make some points, point out some flaws and kindly guide this poor quack conspiracy theorist in the right direction.  Otherwise you spent five paragraphs talking about how stupid you think it is with no real knowledge to offer. 

. Is this evidence that they're conspiring together to take over the world and turn it into a police state? Only if you're a moron who likes jumping to conclusions based on little or no evidence.

I would love to present some more evidence of my own research, but you probably would not get passed the first sentence without calling it bullshit, and then as a response find 20 different ways to say how stupid it is, even though you provide no insight yourself.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2245063 - 01/15/04 11:20 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

regardless of any debating i just thought i'd throw you all a little curve ball.
in a video that came out about 7 years ago JOHN ASHCROFT HIMSELF can be seen proclaiming that a FAR LEFT CONSPIRACY is trying to implement a NEW WORLD ORDER.

Page
Images and Audio From the Video "GLobal Governance"

there's so much confusion out there that very few people even know who their real enemy is. you could argue that it is a result of a massive misinformation campaign on the part of the global elites. or, you could argue that there is no conspiracy of elites, and just ignorant non-elites.
i tend to believe that there most cetainly IS a sect of humans who posess extraordinary ammounts of gold and believe their bloodlines to be superior to others because of that simple fact.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Clean]
    #2245736 - 01/16/04 11:10 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

That's Ashcroft being as paranoid and silly as the guy who wrote the article. He's basically saying feminists, communists, gays and all that are part of the conspiracy.

"i tend to believe that there most cetainly IS a sect of humans who posess extraordinary ammounts of gold and believe their bloodlines to be superior to others because of that simple fact. "

Because of what simple fact? Because Ashcroft spewed some bullshit?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Phluck]
    #2245789 - 01/16/04 11:35 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

no because of the wealth fact.
of course ashcroft is silly, it was just shocking to me to see him accuse the left of a global conspiracy. usually it's the "lefites" accusing people like him of those types of things.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2246182 - 01/16/04 03:19 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)


free governments do not entail a select group of elite politicians
planning wars, and then presenting them to their people in a new
light to gain mass approval.

us people that care about our freedoms and futures are not willing to
accept this blatant manipulation.

If Bush administration officials intentionally lied about WMD's, they
deserve to be sent to prison.


Paul O Neil came forward, with documents (though I have not read his
book yet so I don’t know what they say, but supposedly they support
his assertion), telling that Bush wanted to invade Iraq before 911.

No surprise. Bush Jr. has always hated Saddam and always has
wanted to get rid of him. That isn't much of a secret. In fact,
Bush's attitude towards Saddam was the attitude of the Clinton
administration; i.e. he should be gotten rid of.


And just a little side note- Cheney is really the one who is making
out from all this.

We all know of Dick Cheney’s involvement with Halliburton.

again and again we see the same thing from the government elite, and
again and again they seem to do things that benefit them, not
thinking anything of the people, just the all mighty dollar.

Hasn't Cheney resigned from all Halliburton positions and sold
all of his stock? How is he profiting?

Halliburton is a behemoth of a company. They do all kinds of stuff
and they do it well. That may be why the government calls upon
them to do some stuff.


During the first Gulf War, Cheney was Secretary of Defense

(Cheney) bombs the Iraqi oil infrastructure. Then who goes in their
with all the contracts to rebuild, wow, you guessed it, none other
than Halliburton.

And who is CEO about five years later

The Iraqi oil infrastructure was not rebuilt after the first Gulf War.
It is being rebuilt now(more than ten years later), and(if I
remember from news reports correctly) Cheney is no longer financially
involved with Halliburton.


A shitload of companies did business with Nazi Germany and
had factories over there...even during the war. Some American
companies even sued the American government for bombing those
factories in Germany.


If you knew a little about this, you would have been able to actually
call this piece of the article a blatant half-truth, instead of
trying to justify justify justify your way to proof!

Quote:


Prescott Bush owned just ONE share of those 4000, while Harriman held
virtually all of the remaining stock. That detail alone is enough to
relieve Prescott of any immediate connection to a conspiracy of
funding the Nazis





I'm not trying to justify anything.

The bottom line is is that this author is trying to prove that
an elite few control the world and are responsible for the current
Iraq war. The grandfather of the President Bush has absolutely
nothing to do with the current Iraq situation(which makes his attack
on Prescott Bush seem like nothing more than mudslinging).

The fact that it is as you called it a "blatant half-truth",
proves that this article is tainted with bias. Everything
this guy is saying is suspect. That is why conspiracy theorists
are not taken seriously. They stretch the truth, add a bunch of
innuendo, and come to a wacky conclusion that is not supported by
evidence.

Iran Contra events, Bush most surely knew they were going on- which
he lies about until this day.

Probably true. But with that whole scandal, the people involved
thought they were doing what was best for their country(funding
anti-communist fighters and getting hostages freed). With the
situation that this author is attacking(the current Iraq war and the
war on terrorism), he is claiming that the only motivating factor
is greed and profit. He does not provide near enough evidence
to support this.

what, do you think the former CIA director was in there making
sandwiches for everybody?

God no. Director Casey knew everything that was going on(read "Veil"
by Bob Woodward).

And we kissed Saddam's ass because he was the enemy of our enemy.


CIA was always willing to let Saddam go about as he pleased- they
always loved him.

Damn right. We were trying to counter Iran. Also, we were
trying to counter the Soviet's influence in the Middle East. The
CIA had to do some pretty low things to attempt to counter the
communists who were trying to take over the world.

America runs on oil. We need it. So, the protection
of Middle Eastern oil supplies is of concern to us.


Yeah as long as your car is running, war is justified. Lies are
justified. Secrecy is justified.

I never said that. I just was responding to how the author
was all in a huff that the U.S. would dare to craft foreign policy
that takes oil supplies into account. While I don't support
strong-arm or imperialist foreign policy, I believe the U.S. has
a right to be concerned about its oil supply.

Have you read The Grand Chessboard?

No.

What does some 40 year old hairbrained scheme have to do with what is
going in today?


It is proof that ideas of using terrorism to gain mass approval for
wars was an idea floating around the military industrial complex 40
years ago.

The idea of staging an atrocity to gain public support is nothing
new. If current officials seriously would allow something like
that to happen(like 9/11), I would be horrified. Show me the
proof and I will believe. I need real evidence and not conspiracy
theories however.


Edited by RandalFlagg (01/16/04 03:23 PM)


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2248087 - 01/17/04 12:27 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Hasn't Cheney resigned from all Halliburton positions and sold all of his stock? How is he profiting?

No, he is still receiving checks each year of varying amounts from Halliburton. His stock options are in a “charitable trust,” which means he put them someplace else for himself. It is one of the oldest tricks in the book. He has over 400,000 shares of stock last time I checked. You may also want to check all the business he did at Halliburton when he was CEO, including deals with, none other then-Saddam Hussein. Then you can look at the business of Halliburton from 1995-2000, and the incredible leaps it made by using Cheney’s connections with government. It is disgusting. Republican, Democrat whatever you may be, it is disgusting and irreprehensible to have this kind activity between a business and our government. That is not what political office is about.

Cheney is no longer financially involved with Halliburton.

HE FLAT OUT LIED ABOUT HIS CONNECTIONS WITH HALLIBURTON ON “MEET THE PRESS.” FLAT-OUT-LIED. He has been receiving “deferred” (this is what is in dispute) payment checks each year since 2001, and has more checks due in 2004 and 2005.

And you know what, the guy is so fucking greedy- he made 36 million dollars in 2000- that he needs to get these chump change checks and even risk being exposed like this. These little weird intricacies I am talking about seem to come up endlessly with this administration.

"As vice president, I have absolutely no influence of, involvement of, knowledge of, in any way shape or form, of contracts led by the Corps of Engineers or anybody else in the federal government." Dick Cheney on “Meet the Press” September 2003

Funny, because Halliburton received a 1 billion dollar grant to repair the oil fields in March of 2003 from the Army Corps of Engineers, and then their subsidiary- Brown and Root got yet another 1 billion dollar contract!

Now Randal, think about this logically, why in hell would Cheney make a statement like that. If you’re going to lie, at least make it a lie that is not easily proven one!

The grandfather of the President Bush has absolutely
nothing to do with the current Iraq situation (which makes his attack
on Prescott Bush seem like nothing more than mudslinging).


Well with this, I think he was trying to call the moral standard of this family into question to make his point that they are far from pristine. Also, these powerful families have a lot of weird connections. Like the Rothschilds, you do a little reading and you find out they were contributors to the Bolshevik Revolution, you think- what the hell were they doing with that involvement, so I think that was why he brought it up. Again, see my statement below; there is no place or need to manipulate the truth like that.

The fact that it is as you called it a "blatant half-truth",
proves that this article is tainted with bias. Everything
this guy is saying is suspect. That is why conspiracy theorists
are not taken seriously. They stretch the truth, add a bunch of
innuendo, and come to a wacky conclusion that is not supported by
evidence.


Ok you are right here, but I think the author’s own incompetence is to blame- was he doing all those things on purpose, like the family he criticizes, we may never know. I truly believe that there is a conspiracy to make to world a one world fascist state, and I spend a lot of my time reading the theories and trying to back them up with evidence.

In my haste, after reading an article that flowed with all my conclusions, I decided to post it to inspire people to question more aspects of government and directions it takes. I still do think the article raises many good points though.

Damn right. We were trying to counter Iran. Also, we were
trying to counter the Soviet's influence in the Middle East. The
CIA had to do some pretty low things to attempt to counter the
communists who were trying to take over the world.


First of all, regardless of the reasons, since when is our government supposed to be playing chess in the Middle East with the CIA and dictatorships, without us really even knowing much about a lot of it? Shouldn’t this be the country’s decision? Maybe if they told us about things like this and the Chilean Coup in ’70 for example, we wouldn’t end up in these situations that embarrass us 20-30 years later.

We sold weapons to Saddam right up until he attacked Kuwait. That was 1989. That was years after he had used Chemical weapons. That was years after the Iran scenario. That was years into his brutal reign. The CIA actually met with him in the late 50’s when he was studying in Cairo, and always had some kind of relationship with him- that was what was meant by them “loving him.” They also had significant influence on the revolution insurgency in the ‘60’s.

If Bush administration officials intentionally lied about WMD's, they
deserve to be sent to prison.


The WMD’s are not even the problem here, even though the fact that they’ve been in Iraq for 9 months and can’t find anything but a short-range missile in a soccer stadium and some clean lab stations should tell you something. If you’re going in their for oil, for business, for whatever the cause- it is not right to lie to the people you’re supposed to represent to gain a approval for a war. That is called manipulation of the masses.

No surprise. Bush Jr. has always hated Saddam and always has
wanted to get rid of him. That isn't much of a secret. In fact,
Bush's attitude towards Saddam was the attitude of the Clinton
administration; i.e. he should be gotten rid of.


Just as you “truly believe” that Bush Jr. went into Iraq because he hated Saddam and it was in our best interest, I don’t buy that bullshit for a second, and that is where we seem to differ on these issues, which have not been proven wrong in most cases, just that you see them as innocuous little mistakes that don’t mean much. I see the same patterns -I don’t believe the smartest men in the world keep making the same silly mistakes. Saddam has been a great catalyst for the Bush team’s ulterior motives to be undertaken.

But with that whole scandal, the people involved
thought they were doing what was best for their country (funding
anti-communist fighters and getting hostages freed).


That’s quite a spin to put on it. Communism was a hollow threat long before Iran Contra. The CIA was selling weapons, playing more chess in other countries affairs, and I don’t care where the money ended up going (or not going). And on top of it all, they did this in secret, and then they lied about it until they were caught red-handed. Even on top of all that, Bush still feels the need to lie about his involvement.

I never said that. I just was responding to how the author
was all in a huff that the U.S. would dare to craft foreign policy
that takes oil supplies into account. While I don't support
strong-arm or imperialist foreign policy, I believe the U.S. has
a right to be concerned about its oil supply.


If this is the case then how come the Bush Administration has repeatedly told us that it is not the case! Even you, I’m assuming a Bush supporter as of now, have admitted that you think oil played some sort of part in this war, so if this is the case- TELL THE PEOPLE THAT ELECTED YOU THE REAL REASONS YOU ARE STARTING A WAR. Again, that is called manipulation. The sad part is, it’s so fucking obvious that oil plays at least some part in it. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s out in the open, and nobody in this country cares about it, or even cares to look into it.

Have you read The Grand Chessboard? No

It is by the same guy whose report you read about the Pearl Harbor type incident. He used to be a member- I think- on the trilateral commission, another group of the global elite that decides our foreign policy for us. He wrote The Grand Chessboard in 1993 if I remember correctly, released about a year before Oklahoma City, and it basically details an incident much like Oklahoma City- all about domestic terrorism and all that a big domestic terrorism incident would mean for the country i.e. how the CIA and FBI could paint many militia-like groups as terrorists and shut them down by force. Quite a coincidence- by these odds, I may pay attention to what he writes next and choose not to fly that year. Oh, and just because he does not outright condone the attack, does not mean anything. The conditional tense does not make his timely reports/predictions any less suspect.

The idea of staging an atrocity to gain public support is nothing
new. If current officials seriously would allow something like
that to happen(like 9/11), I would be horrified. Show me the
proof and I will believe. I need real evidence and not conspiracy
theories however.


I don’t know if the event was actually staged, or they just let it happen, but the whole Bush squad certainly knew about the attacks and wanted the attacks. I am so positive about this- there is so much evidence out there- that I will guarantee that something is going to come out that puts the nail in the coffin within the next few years- it’s just too sloppy a cover-up to go unnoticed. Of course that’s why they won’t let an independent probe investigate. And why everyone who tries to ask questions is referred back to the FBI, who then refuses to answer them as well, but I am going to try and type something up to convince you.

But for starters- let’s look at what was in the article- a minor piece of evidence, but so telling. The reactions of the most important men in the country on that morning. By the way, something the author did not include, both George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfield lied about what they were doing that morning. And not just confusing times by five minutes or so years later, I mean within the next 3 weeks they were caught lying in great detail, about what they were doing on that morning. Now explain to me (and this is just for starters because it’s in the article) why the hell the most powerful men in the world were all unavailable at the time, why they did not panic that hijacked airliners were crashing into the greatest cities and buildings of our country. Why George W. Bush, who was 5 minutes from an airport while he was at the school, would just sit there if the event was random and the next strike could be anywhere. Tell me why after the Secret Service received a threat about Air Force 1 (which they came out and admitted was a lie a few weeks later once they knew they were caught in that lie), they went and flew around in Air Force 1 for hours! Tell me why Dick Cheney just sat there watching television until he was physically dragged out of the room. If you don’t know the Bush and Rumsfield lies I’m talking about, then I will type those up for you too- they’re so blatant it is ridiculous. Explain these actions to me, and what was in the article, and again, if you would like a more accurate write-up of exactly what happened on the morning of 911, it would take me some time, but I will do it.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248098 - 01/17/04 12:35 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

one conspiracy which is definitely not a secret is the federal reserve board..who are demanding that ppl work longer hours at lower pay..and that we wage wars of aggression..in order to prevent further degradation of their worthless paper money...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2248147 - 01/17/04 01:14 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I never said that. I just was responding to how the author
was all in a huff that the U.S. would dare to craft foreign policy
that takes oil supplies into account. While I don't support
strong-arm or imperialist foreign policy, I believe the U.S. has
a right to be concerned about its oil supply.




So...the oil in other sovereign countries belongs to the US?

Well then. I think Canada should take over the USA...you aren't exporting enough of our Florida Oranges to us!

YOU EVIL BASTARDS!

:smirk:
silliness...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: trendal]
    #2248173 - 01/17/04 01:21 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Read it again.

He said it's "supply", not it's "property.

You get (I'm assuming here) your supply of food from a store. You get your supply of gasoline from a gas station. Does that mean they belong to you before you pay for them? Nope. Our oil supply des not belong to us either until it's paid or traded for.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: trendal]
    #2248182 - 01/17/04 01:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

So...the oil in other sovereign countries belongs to the US?

it does in the minds of alot of amerikkkans..our intended victims are after all.."evil"...this also ties in with my earlier post ..the neocons in washington view military munitions as being similar to stock options wrt to what they can steal with it..in order to prop up fiat currency with stolen goods...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248189 - 01/17/04 01:25 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

You get (I'm assuming here) your supply of food from a store. You get your supply of gasoline from a gas station. Does that mean they belong to you before you pay for them? Nope. Our oil supply des not belong to us either until it's paid or traded for.

If the grocery store refused to supply food to me...I wouldn't go bomb it :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: trendal]
    #2248204 - 01/17/04 01:31 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
If the grocery store refused to supply food to me...I wouldn't go bomb it :smirk:



I guess it's safe to assume that our president doesn't go by the name 'Trendal' on The Shroomery BBS.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: trendal]
    #2248205 - 01/17/04 01:31 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)


I believe the U.S. has a right to be concerned about its oil supply.


So...the oil in other sovereign countries belongs to the US?


No, no, no. You misunderstand me. The oil in these other countries
does not belong to us, but it does constitute the oil that we get,
so it could be termed our supply. Just like if all of Canada's
oranges come from Florida, you could term Florida's oranges to be
your supply.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2248225 - 01/17/04 01:42 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

What I want to know is: how does being "concerned" over your "supply" of something give you the right to forcefully obtain that "supply"?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: trendal]
    #2248232 - 01/17/04 01:44 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Demonstrate that the US bombed anyone strictly for it's oil.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248237 - 01/17/04 01:46 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

That's not what I'm doing here, and I'm not going to argue that with you as I already know what your mind is on this subject :wink:

I was simply replying to randalflagg's post in which he said:
"I believe the U.S. has a right to be concerned about its oil supply."

Now stop changing the subject.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2248252 - 01/17/04 01:57 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

First of all, I am not a Bush supporter. I am not a republican.

Second of all, show me factual evidence that is not tainted with bias
(the article that you posted is) and I will be more open to hearing
these ideas.

These are the reasons why I think the Iraq war happened:

1. Saddam was an embarrassment to us. He continually
defied us(violating no-fly zones, shooting at our aircraft, etc..).
He was a true symbol of defiance to the U.S., which gave him some
support in the Middle East(not too much...but some). I think that
one of the reasons we got rid of him was to save face and look like
we weren't afraid to finish stuff.

2. To reduce our reliance on Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is
run by an unpopular government, which its citizens hate. The U.S.
keeps that government in power by giving them money and weapons.
The Saudis in turn produce a lot of oil that we buy.

If we are able to get Iraq's oil fields flowing again, and have a
friendly pro-American government in Iraq, we can get away from the
Saudi government.

3. To get our troops out of Saudi Arabia. One of the main reasons
that Muslims hate us is because we have troops in the Saudi
Kingdom(which has the holiest Muslim sites). With Saddam gone we
have an excuse to pull our troops out of there without looking
like wimps.

4. To pressure Iran and Syria. They blatantly support Muslim
terrorism groups and have done so for many years. With American
troops on their borders, they may think twice about continuing to do
so.

5. To try to pressure all non-democratic regimes in the Middle
East to lean towards democracy. Not one Arab government in the
Middle East is democratic, and this pisses off most Arab citizens.
They want democracy, and they view America as keeping certain
governments in power which in turn limits the freedom of the
Arab citizens.

6. To lessen the suffering of the Iraqi people(bear with me on
this one...). The sanctions levied against Iraq have caused
that country to become destitute. A lot of people die from
malnutrition and preventable diseases(all while Saddam and his sons
played in their palaces). Saddam never followed the rules that
would have lifted the sanctions because he wanted to use his
people's suffering as propaganda to the rest of the Arab world
to show how "horrible" America was. With the sanctions(and Saddam)
gone, the Iraqi people can have access to a better life


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: trendal]
    #2248259 - 01/17/04 01:59 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)


What I want to know is: how does being "concerned" over your "supply"
of something give you the right to forcefully obtain that "supply"?

It doesn't.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2248270 - 01/17/04 02:08 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Good, I'm glad we're clear on that :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: trendal]
    #2248275 - 01/17/04 02:10 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't change the subject. I responded to your post.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2248288 - 01/17/04 02:17 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

one conspiracy which is definitely not a secret is the federal reserve board..who are demanding that ppl work longer hours at lower pay..and that we wage wars of aggression..in order to prevent further degradation of their worthless paper money...

Annapurna- that is the strongest part of my belief that there is some sort of an attempt to create global governance.  What is amazing is that nobody can give one solid reason why the Federal Reserve exists- why all the money in our country is controlled by a private bank, which was and is owned by other banks, and they are owned by about 7 families.  I have read sooo much about this if you ever want to discuss it I would love to. 

Whistleblower magazine (of worldnetdaily.com) did a huge article on the Fed, a great article, but could not list one reason for its being-they mentioned conspiracy but did not want to touch the idea. 

Newt Gingrich tried to shut it down in 1998 because he knew what was going on- what the Federal Reserve actually means (a debt that cannot ever be paid back unless we start printing our own money), but guess what happened to him- he was chastised for writing a fucking book!  Then Hillary Clinton does the same thing, to an extent far worse (listening to Bill O Riley expose her book signings and marketing techniques is some of the best comedy available), and it does not matter- unbelievable!    :lol:


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248392 - 01/17/04 03:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't change the subject. I responded to your post.

Then maybe you can notice that I didn't say, anwhere, that "the US bombed anyone strictly for it's oil." :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248423 - 01/17/04 03:22 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Demonstrate that the US bombed anyone strictly for it's oil.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

unlike you..however..i'll at least bother to explain those :lol:s, courtesy of your fellow conservative paul o'neill ..

Quote:

According to O'Neill, invading Iraq was a Bush goal before he had even learned where the Oval office supply closet was. It came up just ten days after the inauguration, at the new president's first National Security Council meeting. "It was all about finding a way to do it," O'Neill says. "That was the tone of it. The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this.'" [article here]




Quote:

The details supplied by O?Neill make clear that the internal US discussions on Iraq were not simply ?contingency planning,? as they have been portrayed by administration spokesmen over the past two years, and continue to be portrayed even in news accounts of O?Neill?s revelations. O?Neill reviewed?and kept copies of?memoranda from the first days of the administration with titles like ?Plan for Post-Saddam Iraq? and ?Foreign Suitors For Iraqi Oilfield Contracts,? which examined such questions as how Iraq should be governed under US occupation and which countries and companies would be seeking a share of the spoils from the seizure of the second largest oil reserves on the planet. [article here]




--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: trendal]
    #2248430 - 01/17/04 03:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
I didn't change the subject. I responded to your post.

Then maybe you can notice that I didn't say, anwhere, that "the US bombed anyone strictly for it's oil." :wink:



OK, but you did say this....
So...the oil in other sovereign countries belongs to the US?

And then this....
If the grocery store refused to supply food to me...I wouldn't go bomb it

And then this....
What I want to know is: how does being "concerned" over your "supply" of something give you the right to forcefully obtain that "supply"?

I think that adds up to exactly what I asked. If you say it doesn't, I'm not a mind reader so I'll take your word for it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248436 - 01/17/04 03:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

No I wouldn't say that adds up to what you asked. At least, I did not intend it to!

The first was in reply to randal's post where he DID mention US "interest" in oil-supply (I think obviously refering to the Iraq situation).

You should be able to put the rest of what I said in context, knowing that.

For the record: I don't think the Iraq war was just over oil...though I'm quite sure oil did play a part. If you dissagree with that, that's your opinion :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2248439 - 01/17/04 03:30 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah. Funny how many here seem to think no-one in the Bush admin says anything truthful.... until they say something they want to hear.  :lol:

Of course what he said is in no way influenced by the desire to sell books and/or the desire to give the shaft to someone he feels wronged him.  :lol:

Hell... I'm convinced.  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: trendal]
    #2248470 - 01/17/04 03:41 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Context is no proble. Add those three items up, add them to other posts of yours and.... bingo.

However as I said, I can't read your mind.


As for the war being just for oil, here's an earlier post with link.....
2-11-2003
Rono, see if you can find where I ever posted that oil wasn't a factor. You won't. What you will find is that I said it wasn't the main reason.
Link

There are others but I figure one will suffice.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248472 - 01/17/04 03:43 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah. Funny how many here seem to think no-one in the Bush admin says anything truthful.... until they say something they want to hear. :lol:

o'neill wasnt a member of the junta when he gave that interview...

Of course what he said is in no way influenced by the desire to sell books and/or the desire to give the shaft to someone he feels wronged him. :lol:

as if the junta shouldnt be given the shaft..for whatever reason...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248491 - 01/17/04 03:51 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

luvdem: "What you will find is that I said it wasn't the main reason."

trendal: "For the record: I don't think the Iraq war was just over oil...though I'm quite sure oil did play a part."

Looks like we're of like mind on this, at least, so no need to argue eh :smile:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2248503 - 01/17/04 03:59 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

o'neill wasnt a member of the junta when he gave that interview...



And that means he is telling the truth because......


Quote:

as if the junta shouldnt be given the shaft..for whatever reason...



Which has exactly zero to do with proving he was truthful.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248524 - 01/17/04 04:27 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

either o'neill is not telling the truth or the junta isnt..and they cant both be right...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2248593 - 01/17/04 05:01 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, they could both be telling the truth as they see or recall it.

That is neither here nor there when used as an response to my earlier statement which was....
Funny how many here seem to think no-one in the Bush admin says anything truthful.... until they say something they want to hear.

So I'll be more direct... why, when so many call the members of the administration liars, is one of them suddenly to be taken as truthful when they say something you want to hear?


And to clear up what seems to be a misunderstanding you seem to have....
I am a libertarian. Paul O'Neil and I are most likely more different than similar.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2248708 - 01/17/04 05:44 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

So I'll be more direct... why, when so many call the members of the administration liars, is one of them suddenly to be taken as truthful when they say something you want to hear?

to repeat..o'neill *wasnt a member of the administration* when he said that..although that still doesnt make what he said true or false...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Global Elite-Conspiracy [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2248735 - 01/17/04 05:53 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
So I'll be more direct... why, when so many call the members of the administration liars, is one of them suddenly to be taken as truthful when they say something you want to hear?

to repeat..o'neill *wasnt a member of the administration* when he said that..although that still doesnt make what he said true or false...



How's this then....
Why, when so many call the members of the administration liars, is one of them,  past or present  , suddenly to be taken as truthful when they say something you want to hear?
:wink:  I know, you already answered.... yet so many are so quick to take his words as gospel merely because they wish to believe what O'Neil said is true.

That doesn't make it true however.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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