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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.




Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl 1
#22413736 - 10/21/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting story. Any eastern europeans here who can offer some feedback about whats it like in their country?
https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/comments/3pm6gl/dude_tries_cold_copping_in_eu_finds_out_country/
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Bridgeburner]
#22413829 - 10/21/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've heard of this stuff for years, I read about it in the DEA microgram bulletins, etc. They called it "china white" because it was white powder. For a while it was flooding into cleveland through the italian mafia out of Detroit. Its a white powder, lactose basicly with a tiny bit of fentanyl in it. Its almost impossible to cut it correctly for powder which leads to inevitable "hot spots" or bits of powder that may have a speck of pure fentanyl in it. A piece the size of a grain of salt will kill a grown man easy. Its bad news bears and if someone gets on the stuff its only a matter of time before they OD. Theres no possible safe dose for it because its impossible to know purity or determine the presence of hot spots.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22413872 - 10/21/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'd like to modify that a bit.
Its next to impossible to dose in powder form because of those hot spots, true, but as a liquid its perfectly dosable, be it as a nasal spray, sublingual or by injection.
3-MF is one of the best fentanyl derivatives for recreational use because it has a duration comparable to heroin, thus, if addicted you can have some semblance of a normal day/night cycle.
Its a good drug, just WAY too potent to handle as a powder, it has to be liquid.
A typical recreational dose is 5-10mcg, and an amount of 3-MF the size of a grain of salt is 50-100mcg, ten to twenty recreational doses, which is equivalent to about 0.15-0.3 grams of street heroin. Its easy to see why so many people die if the drug is distributed in solid form.
Said numbers are for racemic 3-MF, which is the easiest and cheapest to make form.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Asante]
#22413912 - 10/21/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The way drug mafias sell it is in powder, cut with lactose to be specific. This of course is a direct result of prohibition, as its a cheap heroin substitute sold in this manner and form. 5-6 years ago there was an enourmous "heroin OD" epidemic around Detroit, Cleveland, Akron, and Canton Ohio. There were at least two hundred of these deaths while the drug was being distributed through the italian mafia. All of those "heroin deaths" reported in the tv news and newspapers were actually fentanyl derivative poisonings. It was rare for it to even be called "synthetic heroin" in the press, but when I took a personal interest in the matter and investigated it myself, I found it was a series of fentayl poisonings being misreported as heroin ODs.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22413949 - 10/21/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Unfortunately the black market for fentanyl analogs hasn't outgrown the heroin association.
The gray market has. Fentanyl derivatives in the RC market are often sold as small pump spray bottles, which can be squirted in the nostril, under the tongue or in the water to prepare an injection.
They should stop marketing it to look like heroin, a powder, and instead sell it as drip/pump liquids, as their own thing. The users would happily buy liquid 3-MF as its own thing, since they know its very strong, safe to dose, lasts long enough and is offered at a price heroin cant compete with.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Asante]
#22413950 - 10/21/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Achillita]
#22413987 - 10/21/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Suppose you were an opioid addict and were offered something like this:

and you'd know you could shove it in your nose and pump and one whiff would get you withdrawal free, two would get you high, three whiffs would have you nod out, it lasts about 3 hours, feels good, you would not overdose and it gets offered you for a tenth of the price of smack, the small bottle holds 100 hits and the larger, 250..
Wouldnt you?
The 100 hit bottle would hold about half a milligram, by the way!
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Asante]
#22413998 - 10/21/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seems too easy man... If people passed these around, there would be soooo many opiate addicts.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Achillita]
#22414009 - 10/21/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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thats a problem yes.
I think this is the future of opiates, spray bottles of highly potent opioids, not just Fentanyls but ultrapotent classical opiates too like Etorphine and Buprenorphine.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Asante]
#22414033 - 10/21/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seems much easier and discrete than any other way to take it. I'd imagine the biggest problem would be mass transportation or keeping every bottle not kill you with a spray.
If all drugs were legalized, this would definately come up though.
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LuSiD enthusiast
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/13
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Asante]
#22414271 - 10/21/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: Suppose you were an opioid addict and were offered something like this:

and you'd know you could shove it in your nose and pump and one whiff would get you withdrawal free, two would get you high, three whiffs would have you nod out, it lasts about 3 hours, feels good, you would not overdose and it gets offered you for a tenth of the price of smack, the small bottle holds 100 hits and the larger, 250..
Wouldnt you?
The 100 hit bottle would hold about half a milligram, by the way!
I don't even use opiates amd that is tempting.
-------------------- I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed. Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists. I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke. In erowid we trust. Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: LuSiD enthusiast]
#22414321 - 10/21/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I should sell out and go in advertizing.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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myc_check1212
Through Brass


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Bridgeburner]
#22414373 - 10/21/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bridgeburner said: Interesting story. Any eastern europeans here who can offer some feedback about whats it like in their country?
https://www.reddit.com/r/opiates/comments/3pm6gl/dude_tries_cold_copping_in_eu_finds_out_country/
Not like its krokodil or anything
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Asante]
#22414384 - 10/21/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You would be good in advertising, I keep telling you.
This is not a "good" drug, its a bad drug. Yes, its better than heroin and obviously dissolving it in liquid is the way to go. However, opiates are nasty drugs, leading not just to addiction but ruining health along the way.
Ever heard of "kicking" the habit? Wonder where they got the term? Its because opiate users get restless leg syndrome and their legs and arms may jerk uncontrollably. This also makes it hard to sleep leading to insomnia. It also gives severe constipation, badly affects the brain and has other side effects.
It will lead to another wave of addicts just as the pill mills did. When opiate users cant get pills from the doc, they score heroin. Now with nasal sprays we can expect even high schools to become infested with fent. Low cost, no needles, relatively safe = epidemic.
Whats wrong with pot, shrooms, lsd, ket, mxe and similar stuff? They have some down sides but not as bad as opiates.
I get high on life and jebus.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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myc_check1212
Through Brass


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Stonehenge]
#22414396 - 10/21/15 04:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: You would be good in advertising, I keep telling you.
This is not a "good" drug, its a bad drug. Yes, its better than heroin and obviously dissolving it in liquid is the way to go. However, opiates are nasty drugs, leading not just to addiction but ruining health along the way.
Ever heard of "kicking" the habit? Wonder where they got the term? Its because opiate users get restless leg syndrome and their legs and arms may jerk uncontrollably. This also makes it hard to sleep leading to insomnia. It also gives severe constipation, badly affects the brain and has other side effects.
It will lead to another wave of addicts just as the pill mills did. When opiate users cant get pills from the doc, they score heroin. Now with nasal sprays we can expect even high schools to become infested with fent. Low cost, no needles, relatively safe = epidemic.
Whats wrong with pot, shrooms, lsd, ket, mxe and similar stuff? They have some down sides but not as bad as opiates.
I get high on life and jebus.
And CRACKpot 9/11 theories.
And antisemitism
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#22414578 - 10/21/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: You would be good in advertising, I keep telling you.
This is not a "good" drug, its a bad drug. Yes, its better than heroin and obviously dissolving it in liquid is the way to go. However, opiates are nasty drugs, leading not just to addiction but ruining health along the way.
Ever heard of "kicking" the habit? Wonder where they got the term? Its because opiate users get restless leg syndrome and their legs and arms may jerk uncontrollably. This also makes it hard to sleep leading to insomnia. It also gives severe constipation, badly affects the brain and has other side effects.
It will lead to another wave of addicts just as the pill mills did. When opiate users cant get pills from the doc, they score heroin. Now with nasal sprays we can expect even high schools to become infested with fent. Low cost, no needles, relatively safe = epidemic.
Whats wrong with pot, shrooms, lsd, ket, mxe and similar stuff? They have some down sides but not as bad as opiates.
I get high on life and jebus.
Its a good drug in the sense that it has the potential to positively transform the life of junkies. If handled well it might get them off the streets and out of crime. What if you could maintain a habit for $10 a day? $5? What if a user picked up a $25 spray bottle once every two weeks instead of having to raise money and score round the clock?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (10/21/15 05:03 PM)
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22414646 - 10/21/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said: The way drug mafias sell it is in powder, cut with lactose to be specific. This of course is a direct result of prohibition, as its a cheap heroin substitute sold in this manner and form. 5-6 years ago there was an enourmous "heroin OD" epidemic around Detroit, Cleveland, Akron, and Canton Ohio. There were at least two hundred of these deaths while the drug was being distributed through the italian mafia. All of those "heroin deaths" reported in the tv news and newspapers were actually fentanyl derivative poisonings. It was rare for it to even be called "synthetic heroin" in the press, but when I took a personal interest in the matter and investigated it myself, I found it was a series of fentayl poisonings being misreported as heroin ODs.
i think this was going around in new england around the end of 2013 too. i had a life long friend of mine who lived up there at the time. he was a drug counselor for 12 years. he quietly relapsed and was found dead in his bed by his girlfriend one morning in early 2014. i can't be sure of what killed my friend, but for some reason i recall seeing news stories about "heroin spiked with fentanyl" up north around that time, and if that is the case then it wouldn't surprise me if that is what happened with him. i remember reading the story thinking it sounded like hype. your earlier reply about the powder having spots that make od'ing unavoidable made me think of it. awful shit. i don't even understand why anyone trying to turn a profit would do that to their client base.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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LuSiD enthusiast
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 4,325
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Asante]
#22414682 - 10/21/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: I should sell out and go in advertizing. 
You know it's really funny. Earlier this morning you mentioned 3-mf in another thread, (which is the first I'd heard of it) and now i see it here.
I wish i remembered the saying but i heard somewhere that when you learn a new word you will hear it "x" times in the next 24 hours or you will forget ever hearing it. Guess it's true, i still remember it, pretty sure it was like 14-25 times (it was a high number) and I'm probably around 9-10 of having read the word.
Wonder where I'll read or hear it next.
Apparently it's baader meinhof syndrome? There was a saying i heard to recently that summed it up though. Wish i remembered it. kinda ironic i don't remember it.
-------------------- I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed. Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists. I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke. In erowid we trust. Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.
Edited by LuSiD enthusiast (10/21/15 05:30 PM)
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MichAnon.ael
Dark Stranger


Registered: 12/15/14
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: millzy]
#22414690 - 10/21/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah i remember the news stories..
I have little intrest in opioids, aside from purely medicinal get rid of this pain now type applications, tho this thread is packed full of very valuable information. Thanks to both of you for knowing your shit and sharing it.
I pray the right people who need it find it here. Thanks again fellas!
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Dude tries cold copping in EU, finds out country has no heroin since 2002 but 3-methylfentanyl [Re: Asante]
#22414700 - 10/21/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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>What if you could maintain a habit for $10 a day? $5? What if a user picked up a $25 spray bottle once every two weeks instead of having to raise money and score round the clock?
Oh yeah, cheap heroin, just what everyone needs. I would not be interested in free fent, I might try it one time but most people who try it will try it again and again. The cheapness is one of the things that makes it dangerous. It means kids will share it with their buddies saying "its no big thang". We have people in this thread interested in using it now.
Its good in that junkies don't have to steal as much to float their habit. But don't kid yourself, they will just get high more often instead of buying just enough not to get sick. Then they need more and more and eventually are back to the same expensive routine.
We all think we can handle it, that goes with the territory. We find out later that we can't. For genuine pain patients this is great just to save the arm and leg the greedy pharm companies charge and the doctors visit. But to everyone else its their next nightmare.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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