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Offlinelurkinggoat
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First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics)
    #22413161 - 10/21/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Hey All
I'm new to the forum and also the world of monotubs. I've used TranscendingLife's one flush wonder to a "t" and am at 10 days into colonizing in the tub itself. My concern is it seems that much moisture has evaporated up to the lid and and sides of tub which seemed normal at first. However, as it starts to drip back down onto the substrate surface it's creating small pools along the sides:confused:. There's even some small areas of mycelium that are entirely submerged in the water making me nervous.

I thought about doing a few things, such as opening the lid and dabbing the water up with paper towels, or start fruiting with FAE to in hopes dry the moisture on the surface up. Then I realized I should utilize the expertise on this site for advice.

I've added a few photos of the moist surface. Can't really see the pools of water I'm talking about though. Also through in a pic with the duct tape peeled back so you can see how the myco has colonized through the substrate.

FYI I cased the tub with a very small amount of coir I had left after mixing the substrate and inoculated rye. That's most likely why it looks a little bald in the middle.



Any info to help me proceed would be awesome!

Cheers!
LG


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: lurkinggoat]
    #22413492 - 10/21/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

IMO if that tub was already 100% when you cased go ahead and put into fruiting conditions, most people will put into fruiting when 30% of casing layer is colonized, or straight into fruiting with a coir casing. If not your casing layer will be consumed and pointless.

Edit: if you put a layer of coir on top directly after mixing sub, it's not a casing it's a top layer. Let it fully colonize then fruit.


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Edited by NDStepp84 (10/21/15 12:12 PM)


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: lurkinggoat] * 1
    #22413498 - 10/21/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You don't need to tape the bottom of the tub. Light does not cause side pins, unfavorable fruiting conditions do. If you're seeing a lot of pooling water just tap a corner of the tub onto a counter top and then proceed to pour the water out into the sink. I usually get pooling water on my subs if I don't case them because I don't use a liner. If you use a liner, the condensation that runs down the walls of the tub will run behind it instead of on your substrate.


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Offlinelurkinggoat
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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: insanemike]
    #22413779 - 10/21/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NDStepp84 said:
IMO if that tub was already 100% when you cased go ahead and put into fruiting conditions, most people will put into fruiting when 30% of casing layer is colonized, or straight into fruiting with a coir casing. If not your casing layer will be consumed and pointless.

Edit: if you put a layer of coir on top directly after mixing sub, it's not a casing it's a top layer. Let it fully colonize then fruit.




Thanks for the quick response NDStepp!It's actually a top layer. I got the two mixed up. I should prolly give it some more time for that matter.



Quote:

insanemike said:
You don't need to tape the bottom of the tub. Light does not cause side pins, unfavorable fruiting conditions do. If you're seeing a lot of pooling water just tap a corner of the tub onto a counter top and then proceed to pour the water out into the sink. I usually get pooling water on my subs if I don't case them because I don't use a liner. If you use a liner, the condensation that runs down the walls of the tub will run behind it instead of on your substrate.




Gotcha! Great info. I'll make adjustments to my next grow. As for now all the mycelium looks healthy and there doesn't seem to be any contam issues. If i leave some of that myco submerged though I'm sure I will see some sorta negative effect. Also do I run the risk of contamming by sopping up the excess water with paper towels this far into colonization? I'd be nervous to tip the entire tub on it's side to drain. Cheers!


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: lurkinggoat]
    #22413805 - 10/21/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Open the lid and leave it loose so that there are gaps. Permanent pooling is bad, temporary pooling is okay. You want the water to evaporate from the casing layer. Then spray it to add more moisture.


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Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: lurkinggoat]
    #22413977 - 10/21/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

lurkinggoat said:
Quote:

insanemike said:
You don't need to tape the bottom of the tub. Light does not cause side pins, unfavorable fruiting conditions do. If you're seeing a lot of pooling water just tap a corner of the tub onto a counter top and then proceed to pour the water out into the sink. I usually get pooling water on my subs if I don't case them because I don't use a liner. If you use a liner, the condensation that runs down the walls of the tub will run behind it instead of on your substrate.




Gotcha! Great info. I'll make adjustments to my next grow. As for now all the mycelium looks healthy and there doesn't seem to be any contam issues. If i leave some of that myco submerged though I'm sure I will see some sorta negative effect. Also do I run the risk of contamming by sopping up the excess water with paper towels this far into colonization? I'd be nervous to tip the entire tub on it's side to drain. Cheers!




I have never run into a problem when tipping my tubs to pour off pooling water. Before the first flush, the sub should be tight against the walls with the myc fingering out and gripping a hold of the tub. I've tried soaking up the water with a paper towel but always seem to cause bruising when I do it, that's why I started tipping my tubs and pouring them. I usually do it right before adding the casing. Like tahoe said, you shouldn't have long term pooling of water on your substrate after introducing FAE, especially if you have a casing layer.


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Offlinelurkinggoat
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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: insanemike]
    #22414508 - 10/21/15 04:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I have never run into a problem when tipping my tubs to pour off pooling water. Before the first flush, the sub should be tight against the walls with the myc fingering out and gripping a hold of the tub. I've tried soaking up the water with a paper towel but always seem to cause bruising when I do it, that's why I started tipping my tubs and pouring them. I usually do it right before adding the casing. Like tahoe said, you shouldn't have long term pooling of water on your substrate after introducing FAE, especially if you have a casing layer.




I took your advice and tilted the tub to drain. Seemed to work like a charm. I still have the dew like drops on the surface which seem to be totally normal but the pools are gone. Thanks a ton for the timely advice. I will continue to post pics of the progress. Cheers!
LG


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Invisibleinsanemike

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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: lurkinggoat]
    #22414804 - 10/21/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You want those droplets on the substrate at all times. :thumbup:


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Offlinedinosaurcocks
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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: insanemike]
    #22415188 - 10/21/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

excessive condensation is usually caused by too much temperature fluctuation, IMO...the mycelium keep the tub very warm (75-80 degrees) and very humid, and when temps go down, often at night, the walls of the tub become much cooler than the air inside the tub, causing condensation...much like a glass of ice water on a hot humid day...the cooler temps also cool the air in the tub, cold air can't hold as much water as warm air can, causing the water to condense, forming dewdrops on the surface of your substrate...

you want moisture on the surface of the substrate, but if condensation is causing it to happen too quickly, before the surface is finished colonizing, it can get excessively wet, slowing colonization at the surface, where speedy growth is most critical. even if it happens mostly after the surface has colonized, it can cause pooling on the surface, which with catch contams floating in the air like fly paper, and give them a place to grow. this can even happen with a liner, as the condensation will often times make the liner stick to the walls of your tub, so that water will run down the walls and into the substrate, rather than below it.

cracking the lid of a monotub during colonization is a bad idea IMO, it releases co2 from the tub and causes evaporation, two main fruiting triggers, while your colony will most likely ignore them while they still have food to consume, i believe that one of the best ways to get strong flushes is to have a fairly noticeable difference between colonizing and fruiting conditions...how will you introduce fruiting conditions if most of them have already been introduced during colonization? in my experience this often leads to staggered and smaller flushes, instead of one uniform and large flush, you get half a dozen mushrooms maturing every few days, no identifiable main flush, and this reduces yield.

tipping tubs is a messy solution to an easily resolvable problem, just drill a 1/8 inch hole in the bottom of one corner of your tub, and cover with a thin, stretchy duct tape, NOT gorilla tape, as it is too rigid to seal  the hole well and WILL leak throughout your grow, making a mess, whenever you notice pooling water at the bottom simply peel back the tape, and let your water drain into a cup, i do this with all my tubs and have never had a contamination because of it.

that being said if you can keep your tubs in a room with a stable temperature, you wont get excessive condensation. regardless of how wet your tubs are...when i first started doing tubs i had the same problem, because they were in the same room as a 600w grow tent, and temps would rise when the light was on and fall significantly when it turned off at night. like you, i miss-diagnosed the problem as too much moisture in my substrate, though i had the same issue with a very dry mix, and after finding the true problem, i eventually returned to my original definition of "field capacity". the entire purpose of bulk substrate is to provide moisture to the colony, it gets most of it's nutrients from your spawn seeds, but they don't hold much moisture, and that's why people don't run tubs of pure wbs. if you over-wet your substrate you get slow colonization, if you use overly dry substrate, you get weaker flushes and less yeild.


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Offlinelurkinggoat
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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: dinosaurcocks]
    #22417808 - 10/22/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dinosaurcocks said:
excessive condensation is usually caused by too much temperature fluctuation, IMO...the mycelium keep the tub very warm (75-80 degrees) and very humid, and when temps go down, often at night, the walls of the tub become much cooler than the air inside the tub, causing condensation...much like a glass of ice water on a hot humid day...the cooler temps also cool the air in the tub, cold air can't hold as much water as warm air can, causing the water to condense, forming dewdrops on the surface of your substrate...

you want moisture on the surface of the substrate, but if condensation is causing it to happen too quickly, before the surface is finished colonizing, it can get excessively wet, slowing colonization at the surface, where speedy growth is most critical. even if it happens mostly after the surface has colonized, it can cause pooling on the surface, which with catch contams floating in the air like fly paper, and give them a place to grow. this can even happen with a liner, as the condensation will often times make the liner stick to the walls of your tub, so that water will run down the walls and into the substrate, rather than below it.

cracking the lid of a monotub during colonization is a bad idea IMO, it releases co2 from the tub and causes evaporation, two main fruiting triggers, while your colony will most likely ignore them while they still have food to consume, i believe that one of the best ways to get strong flushes is to have a fairly noticeable difference between colonizing and fruiting conditions...how will you introduce fruiting conditions if most of them have already been introduced during colonization? in my experience this often leads to staggered and smaller flushes, instead of one uniform and large flush, you get half a dozen mushrooms maturing every few days, no identifiable main flush, and this reduces yield.

tipping tubs is a messy solution to an easily resolvable problem, just drill a 1/8 inch hole in the bottom of one corner of your tub, and cover with a thin, stretchy duct tape, NOT gorilla tape, as it is too rigid to seal  the hole well and WILL leak throughout your grow, making a mess, whenever you notice pooling water at the bottom simply peel back the tape, and let your water drain into a cup, i do this with all my tubs and have never had a contamination because of it.

that being said if you can keep your tubs in a room with a stable temperature, you wont get excessive condensation. regardless of how wet your tubs are...when i first started doing tubs i had the same problem, because they were in the same room as a 600w grow tent, and temps would rise when the light was on and fall significantly when it turned off at night. like you, i miss-diagnosed the problem as too much moisture in my substrate, though i had the same issue with a very dry mix, and after finding the true problem, i eventually returned to my original definition of "field capacity". the entire purpose of bulk substrate is to provide moisture to the colony, it gets most of it's nutrients from your spawn seeds, but they don't hold much moisture, and that's why people don't run tubs of pure wbs. if you over-wet your substrate you get slow colonization, if you use overly dry substrate, you get weaker flushes and less yeild.




Thanks for the tips and useful info. My temps are prolly shifting from 74ish during the day all the way t00 66ish at night, so that must be the problem.


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OfflineLorettaLynn
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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: dinosaurcocks]
    #28362527 - 06/16/23 08:07 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Your response was SUPER helpful in identifying why I have a smaller yield than anticipated. I appreciate you sharing.


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OfflineHysteria
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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: LorettaLynn] * 3
    #28362535 - 06/16/23 08:15 PM (7 months, 9 days ago)

If they return after 7.5 years away and see your compliment, I'll be both impressed and filled with a renewed love for humanity.


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Offlinejohnukguy
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Re: First monotub grow concerns with too much moisture (w/pics) [Re: LorettaLynn] * 1
    #28363214 - 06/17/23 11:40 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Welcome to the Shroomery. Necroing really old posts can be problematic, as they can often contain inaccurate or out of date advice.


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