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olof
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Registered: 09/30/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Clarification needed on Casing/Fruiting
#22411373 - 10/20/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi! Im a new cultivator and have been lurking these forums for a long while, reading all over different techniques and fun ways to grow mushrooms.
Finally I begun my first attempt primarilly following DOC34s WBS TEK and Damion5050 Coir tek.
The WBS Jars went great, All my jars colonized fully, 12 quarts total.
One set colonized much faster so I followed the monotub and coir tek to the T in my first monotub. I Mixed most of the coir/verm with my WBS really well and saved for a small layer of Coir/verm on top and let it sit in the dark for 2 days. Some white was already popping up out of the coir so I patched it on day 3 and put this tub into fruiting. Now Day 5 is here and theres just more white hairy puffs all over the top of my casing... I fear this is the start of overlay based on pictures.
Anyways Then My other 6 jars were fully colonized and I Started another monotub.. This time I mixed less of the coir/verm with the wbs and saved enough for a 3/4inch layer on top. That has been in the dark for 3 days now with no white poking through anywhere yet.
Does it sound like my container in fruiting is on the right path? Am I following these procedures right? I have no pins yet... Should I patch my first monotub? Did I put it into fruiting too soon? Why do some people case right over plain WBS and some people mix WBS with coir/verm and then case??
Thanks
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
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Re: Clarification needed on Casing/Fruiting [Re: olof]
#22411420 - 10/20/15 09:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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All colonization begins from the spawn. Think about the distance from the spawn to the top.
In the first instance, you used a very thin top layer with spawn right under it. I won't take long for the mycellium to protrude through that. You may have put it into fruiting a bit too fast, but it will colonize and do what it's going to do. I doubt you have overlay, I think you're just seeing what mycellium looks like when colonizing coir. Overlay is more like when a casing fully colonizes (which will occur with coir) and THEN dries out on the surface and flattens, forming a "overlay" which prevents pinning. At least that's my understanding. Monotubs are way too humid for that to occur.
The other tub has 3/4" of substrate over it, so it's going to take time for the mycellium to colonize all the way to the top of that, at which point the substrate bellow will definitely be fully colonized. 3/4" is more than you'd want for a real casing, though with coir it will be fine, just take a bit longer.
I don't think you need to patch #1. Casing straight grains was an older method that yielded less than spawning to bulk substrate because it lacked the watermass to fruit out its nutrients. Almost nobody cases straight WBS.
There is a lot of terminology confusion.
Coir is both a casing and a bulk substrate. Use it either way, it doesn't matter. It's there for water capacity, not really for nutrition, though it is more nutritious than a casing is technically supposed to be, it's low enough that it still works decently well. Downside is that it his 100% colonization faster/more easily than peat/verm based casing.
"Casings" refered to PF cakes put in a tray and surrounded in peat verm casing. In that instance, the casing was used in such large quantity that it added water mass, makin it act as a bulk substrate, not just a top layer for improving microclimate and inducing pinning.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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olof
Stranger
Registered: 09/30/15
Posts: 7
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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The terminology is sure confusing to a beginner and so is working through all this outdated tek!...
So my BULK SUBSTRATE is a coir verm mix that I add to my WBS so that theres more of a water absorbant colonized mass.
and my CASING is the layer (1/4" in my first tub, 3/4" in my second) on top of the bulk substrate
All im confused with now is how to tell when my 2nd monotub is ready for fruiting, i have read all over that you see mycellium in the valleys and then move to fruiting.
Also I have 12 more jars of WBS just started... Should I use a bulk substrate and no casing? Should I use a very tiny casing?? or my thicker casing? (When i move onto 2 more monotubs)
Finally what will my 1st monotub look like in the next few days to make sure stuff is going well? Will the whole casing layer become colonized>? Will pins form soon>?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Clarification needed on Casing/Fruiting [Re: olof]
#22411566 - 10/20/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22144051
Read that and click the pics for getting past the outdated bs.
As for when to fruit.. At 100% colonization. With a casing you can fruit immediately after casing, all the way up until about 30% colonization of the casing. I usually fruit just as the first signs of myc pass through the casing.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
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Re: Clarification needed on Casing/Fruiting [Re: olof]
#22411734 - 10/20/15 11:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, with a coir top layer, it kinda depends on how long you let it colonize as to whether it's a casing or just more bulk substrate.
If you let it colonize to 50% or less, then you're using it as a casing. If you let it hit 100%, then it's just bulk substrate essentially.
In regards to what bulk substrate is, it's, as its name implies, a substrate you use lots of. Grain spawn is added to a larger quantity of bulk substrate (typically 1 parts spawn to 2-3 parts bulk substrate for cubensis.) The spawn colonizes the bulk substrate, then draws on the immense water capacity when fruitin. Since mushies are 90% water, you run out of water long before you run out of nutrients when using straight grains. The bulk substrate has some nutritional contents, enough to cover the colonization energy, but not a lot more than that. Because it is not super nitritious, it can be colonized in non-sterile conditions, unlike the starch rich spawn.
I think casing is worth while, and it's really hard to fuck up a coir casing, allthough its moisture retention is inferior to peat IMO.
For two monos, save like 3 qts of coir from your 20qt batch. Distribute the rest into tubs and mix in spawn. I prefer to store coir in the frige but it's up to you. Once you see your tubs are fully colonized, add 1.5qt substrate to each as a casing, fruit once you see any signs of mycellium pushing through.
Your second tub should be ready to rock'n roll whenever you see mycellium poking through the top.
You can expect your first tub to take some time. With such a thin top layer applied during spawning, you could reasonably expect that mycellium would be poking through it before full colonization. My tubs usually colonize for 4-7 days, then are cased and colonize that in about 5 days, then start pinning like 3-7 days after that. Anyway, don't be suprised if it just chill out for a week or two before fruiting. Depends on genetics as well.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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WChef


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 191
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Very simple and clear explanation, Machiavelliavore. I too struggled with the outdated teks that use completely new, esoteric terminology in what is supposed to be used as a guide for someone who doesn't already know how to do it. I think half the people writing them forgot that last part.
It took multiple readings of multiple different teks before I had any clue what any of them were talking about.
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olof
Stranger
Registered: 09/30/15
Posts: 7
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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thanks alot Mach... This did really help me out alot.
guess im playing the waiting game 
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