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topdog82
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Why is hatha yoga so amazing?
#22411339 - 10/20/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I have been rediscovering yoga recently. While I knew it was awesome before, I never truly realized HOW awesome till I began doing it daily instead of sporadically. It has greater increased my sense of well-being, and my recovery from strength training is through the roof
So my question here is; WHY does yoga have such a profound effect? I don't fully understand auyurveda, and I assume some on this forum do. Could you please explain? Whatever hatha yoga is, it seems to be doing something much more/different than simple strength excercise or stretching. I have done stretching and excercise daily for years and not yielded these type of results in both mental/physical/spiritual awareness. Simple stretching and excercise hasn't boosted my immunity and vitality nearly to the extent that yoga has. So what is it?
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Psilosopherr
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22411480 - 10/20/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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topdog82
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#22411510 - 10/20/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im hoping specifically for that mark dude to chime in. He seems pretty well read 
Anyone else feel free to chime in if you happened to know. I am ridiculously curious and the internet doesn't seem to give me much
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deff
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22412663 - 10/21/15 08:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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i don't know much about the dynamics of it, but i think hatha yoga is supposed to work also with the subtle energy body - the nadis (channels), chakras, etc... perhaps this could be the reason for the effects you're noticing?
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22413697 - 10/21/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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No words can really describe why yoga works better than the actual transformation you're experiencing right now!
 
Check out "Light on Yoga" by BKS Iyengar & The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali translated by Swami Satchitananda.
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Middleman

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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22413762 - 10/21/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've been doing asanas for about a year now. At first it made me super horny until I started doing pranayam at the end to pull all that energy upward. I bring it to the belly before hiking, to the heart before socializing and to the throat before writing or making music. It also helps to greet the 4 directions to balance things out.
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Swarupa

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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22414051 - 10/21/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fundamentally i feel like Haha Yoga brings consistent awareness to different parts of the body and that consistency is what sets it apart so much, as you get to know your own body more intimately but also begin to become aware of a deeper aspect of yourself as an awareness/consciousness that is more consistent than the changeful body, so perhaps ultimately not of the body.
The depth of an asana can also help to release mental tensions which have manifested in the physical body, vice/versa. Yoga is quite focused on the spine aswell which is very central to all of our physical body.
I've also noticed that when i exercise pretty tough then later on relax my body feels lighter than it did before, like a tension followed by release effect. I feel this really applies to Yoga too, and as it hits so deeply the release afterwards is even more pronounced.
Yoga
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topdog82
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: Swarupa]
#22415144 - 10/21/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: i don't know much about the dynamics of it, but i think hatha yoga is supposed to work also with the subtle energy body - the nadis (channels), chakras, etc... perhaps this could be the reason for the effects you're noticing?
Ya I have read a little into auyurveda, but is it as simple as tension in the body closes up your chakras? Seem a little too simple...stretching=open chakras?
Quote:
yogabunny said: No words can really describe why yoga works better than the actual transformation you're experiencing right now!
 
Check out "Light on Yoga" by BKS Iyengar & The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali translated by Swami Satchitananda. 
Lol I just ordered this. I go through books like toilet paper. Its on my reading list
Quote:
Swarupa said: Fundamentally i feel like Haha Yoga brings consistent awareness to different parts of the body and that consistency is what sets it apart so much, as you get to know your own body more intimately but also begin to become aware of a deeper aspect of yourself as an awareness/consciousness that is more consistent than the changeful body, so perhaps ultimately not of the body.
The depth of an asana can also help to release mental tensions which have manifested in the physical body, vice/versa. Yoga is quite focused on the spine aswell which is very central to all of our physical body.
I've also noticed that when i exercise pretty tough then later on relax my body feels lighter than it did before, like a tension followed by release effect. I feel this really applies to Yoga too, and as it hits so deeply the release afterwards is even more pronounced.
Yoga 
I hypothesize that the spine is the center of "lifeforce" (basically its a bigass bundle of fibers), that strategically massaging it may do something powerful to it
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once in a lifetime
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22415277 - 10/21/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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the most simplest answer is because you do it 
have done an admixture of yoga & aikido from a early age, or fairly early. . . remember reading along the way - both a zen master and a martial arts master can see spirit; an interesting concept i kept at h'art an' meditated upon over the years.
yoga means union/ specifically, union with the divine, so that is the ultimate goal, sort of, maybe not in oneness or maybe- ramakrishna often wrote, the servant-i is much better than oneness, so the union can be of that kind, god and the individual soul unified by love..
as lun ar eclipse beautifully put it, oneness would be lonely!
btw am dancing with love and bliss
mi gi dem burning spear!
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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topdog82
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Quote:
once in a lifetime said: the most simplest answer is because you do it 
have done an admixture of yoga & aikido from a early age, or fairly early. . . remember reading along the way - both a zen master and a martial arts master can see spirit; an interesting concept i kept at h'art an' meditated upon over the years.
yoga means union/ specifically, union with the divine, so that is the ultimate goal, sort of, maybe not in oneness or maybe- ramakrishna often wrote, the servant-i is much better than oneness, so the union can be of that kind, god and the individual soul unified by love..
as lun ar eclipse beautifully put it, oneness would be lonely!
btw am dancing with love and bliss
mi gi dem burning spear!
akido sounds badass. With the newfound bodily and spacial awareness yoga is giving me, I am hoping to get into this type of gymnastics
Either way, sounds awesome!
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deff
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22415362 - 10/21/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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looks difficult
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topdog82
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: deff]
#22415393 - 10/21/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: looks difficult 
Lol it probably is. But thats the fun part. Once my spinal injury heals I want to get the handstand, handstand pushup, pushup, pullups, one legged squats, and bridge down. Yoga has me obssessed with how the body moves through space. Truly amazing stuff...
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deff
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22415430 - 10/21/15 07:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah i've recently taken up yin yoga which i love and a dvd called qi flow yoga which is kind of like qigong/tai chi - really enjoyable and beneficial stuff i love the feeling of holding a deep stretch and relaxing into it, letting go it's a very enjoyable practice
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22415563 - 10/21/15 08:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yoga is a transcendental science, meaning that its techniques have originated in states of consciousness characterized by præternatural insight, prajna (wisdom). Those insights were transformed, (metaphorically, like a step-down transformer such as the one which supplies a laptop computer with 12 volts stepped-down from 110-115 house voltage) into systematic techniques which engage the mind-body, and which prepares it for the direct reception of transcendental states. Namaste. ॐ
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Psilosopherr
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doing yoga stretches?
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topdog82
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#22415941 - 10/21/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Yoga is a transcendental science, meaning that its techniques have originated in states of consciousness characterized by præternatural insight, prajna (wisdom). Those insights were transformed, (metaphorically, like a step-down transformer such as the one which supplies a laptop computer with 12 volts stepped-down from 110-115 house voltage) into systematic techniques which engage the mind-body, and which prepares it for the direct reception of transcendental states. Namaste. ॐ
thats beautiful

Thanks for the info!Quote:
rbalzer said: doing yoga stretches?
As I mentioned in the first post, its MUCH more than stretches
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#22416107 - 10/21/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
rbalzer said: doing yoga stretches?
Postures in Yoga, of which there are 84 basic ones, are called Asanas. Asanas are the 3rd 'limb' of 8-Limbed or Ashtanga Yoga (also called Raja or 'kingly' Yoga in Swami Vivekananda's system). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali ; The word Yoga has the same Indo-European root as the word 'yoke,' and is usually translated as Union. The postures follow two ethical preparatory stages, but in the West they have become fetishized and competitive displays by acrobatically gifted individuals, and they've become adapted by the 'body beautiful' "culture of narcissism." Ancient Asanas are intended to condition the body-mind for the influx of higher levels of bio-electric energy or Prana. High pranic states or "hyperpranic" states are attributed to the surging of energies referred to as Kundalini-Shakti in Hindu Tantric Yoga, or the gTummo in Tibetan Buddhism, or by other names in different esoteric traditions. Psychedelic states also liberate these energies. I could never have tolerated high doses without performing certain Hatha Asanas to move the energy upward (The Bow is a particularly important one for this, Dhanurasana). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asanas
The design of the Asanas are each geared to specific nerves and nerve centers (ganglia) in the physical body, but they are also geared to the subtle nerves (nadis) and their centers (chakras) of the Subtle or Astral body (Sukshma karira). The physical body has, interpenetrated with it, a subtle body. The Causal body is not a body with form, strictly speaking, but is more like a plane or expanse, yet it is a more refined aspect of the human being which borders on the Ultimate Source, which in Hindu Vedantic thought is called Atman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Bodies_Doctrine_(Vedanta) These categories are a matter of experience, not speculation/fabrication.
Bottom line: Hatha (Sun-Moon) Asanas are not and never were merely physical stretches because we are not merely physical bodies.
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/21/15 11:10 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22416112 - 10/21/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Psilosopherr
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
rbalzer said: doing yoga stretches?
Postures in Yoga, of which there are 84 basic ones, are called Asanas. Asanas are the 3rd 'limb' of 8-Limbed or Ashtanga Yoga (also called Raja or 'kingly' Yoga in Swami Vivekananda's system). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali The word Yoga has the same Indo-European root as the word 'yoke,' and is usually translated as Union. The postures follow two ethical preparatory stages, but in the West they have become fetishized and competitive displays by acrobatically gifted individuals, and they've become adapted by the 'body beautiful' "culture of narcissism." Ancient Asanas are intended to condition the body-mind for the influx of higher levels of bio-electric energy or Prana. High pranic states or "hyperpranic" states are attributed to the surging of energies referred to as Kundalini-Shakti in Hindu Tantric Yoga, or the gTummo n Tibetan Buddhism, or by other names in different esoteric traditions. Psychedelic states also liberate these energies. I could never have tolerated high doses without performing certain Hatha Asanas to move the energy upward (The Bow is a particularly important one for this, Dhanurasana. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asanas
The design of the Asanas are each geared to specific nerves and nerve centers (ganglia) in the physical body, but they are also geared to the subtle nerves (nadis) of the Subtle or Astral body (Sukshma karira). The physical body has, interpenetrated with it, a subtle body. The Causal body is not a body with form, but is more like a plane or expanse, yet it is a more refined aspect of the human being which borders on the Ultimate Source, which in Hindu Vedantic thought is called Atman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Bodies_Doctrine_(Vedanta)
Bottom line: Hatha (Sun-Moon) Asanas are not and never were merely physical stretches because we are not merely physical bodies.
very interesting. gonna have to read more about this in the morning.
interesting that it helps you tolerate high doses too
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topdog82
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#22416232 - 10/21/15 11:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I 100% agree with that. I have had much more clairty in my psychedelic trips ever since doing yoga daily. It is a habit that I am going to keep up for life hopefully. Its surprising how powerful it is
And I have also mixed yoga with light doses of psyches. Its amazing
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yogabunny
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22417076 - 10/22/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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topdog, i am truly so excited for you. it's so cool to watch someone discover yoga and really "get it".
i think you might find it interested to also research the vagus nerve, or "the wandering nerve". i came across it in some internet research about 4 months ago, and have been obsessed ever since. the stimulation of this nerve through yoga practice & breath work (pranayama) seems to play a major role in why yoga works. if i ever go back to school i would probably study this nerve in an attempt to link it to the chakra system. it travels in two paths down the right and left side of the body from the brain to the abdomen helping to regulate breathing, heart rate, digestion. people with a high "vagal tone" are more resilient to stress, and research is showing that yoga, meditation, pranayama all strengthen the vagal tone.
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topdog82
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: yogabunny]
#22417597 - 10/22/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said: topdog, i am truly so excited for you. it's so cool to watch someone discover yoga and really "get it".
i think you might find it interested to also research the vagus nerve, or "the wandering nerve". i came across it in some internet research about 4 months ago, and have been obsessed ever since. the stimulation of this nerve through yoga practice & breath work (pranayama) seems to play a major role in why yoga works. if i ever go back to school i would probably study this nerve in an attempt to link it to the chakra system. it travels in two paths down the right and left side of the body from the brain to the abdomen helping to regulate breathing, heart rate, digestion. people with a high "vagal tone" are more resilient to stress, and research is showing that yoga, meditation, pranayama all strengthen the vagal tone.


thanks for the info. I will look into it. Funny you mention in, I am a neuroscience student. I will ask my anatomy professor about it in class and see if he has any insights. Or I will just look into it myself
Thanks!
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: yogabunny]
#22417618 - 10/22/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, I did some research into the chakras, man it was years and years ago, and the author, who was a westerner looking into Eastern spirituality and yoga specifically, determined that the neurological root for the chakra system is the vagus nerve. It is instrumental in spiritual insight and proclivity. Not much is known why or how, as far as I know.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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yogabunny
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I would like to know the name of the author, because when I googled "chakra system vagus nerve", not too much came up.
Hopefully we'll have more research soon, as Vagal Nerve Stimulation (VNS) treatment seems to be effective in treating epilepsy, rheumatoid arthritis, atrial fibrillation, tinnitus
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/29/hacking-the-nervous-syste_n_7469526.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/magazine/can-the-nervous-system-be-hacked.html
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: yogabunny] 1
#22418881 - 10/22/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Unfortunately, I have no idea. We're talking about 2002 here, and it was some obscure book at my local university library from I think the twenties or thirties. I could not figure out what that book was if my life depended on it. My apologies.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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topdog82
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: yogabunny]
#22419297 - 10/22/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
yogabunny said: I would like to know the name of the author, because when I googled "chakra system vagus nerve", not too much came up.
Hopefully we'll have more research soon, as Vagal Nerve Stimulation (VNS) treatment seems to be effective in treating epilepsy, rheumatoid arthritis, atrial fibrillation, tinnitus
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/29/hacking-the-nervous-syste_n_7469526.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/magazine/can-the-nervous-system-be-hacked.html
just read through both. Cool stuff
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once in a lifetime
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#22419625 - 10/22/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: Or I will just look into it myself
Thanks!
This. You got it, all within you, brother. No need to ask external sources.
Jaya!
Those who try to lead you away from yourself, lead you falsely. 
Jaya, love and peace.
Quote:
yogabunny said: topdog, i am truly so excited for you. it's so cool to watch someone discover yoga and really "get it".
i think you might find it interested to also research the vagus nerve, or "the wandering nerve". i came across it in some internet research about 4 months ago, and have been obsessed ever since. the stimulation of this nerve through yoga practice & breath work (pranayama) seems to play a major role in why yoga works. if i ever go back to school i would probably study this nerve in an attempt to link it to the chakra system. it travels in two paths down the right and left side of the body from the brain to the abdomen helping to regulate breathing, heart rate, digestion. people with a high "vagal tone" are more resilient to stress, and research is showing that yoga, meditation, pranayama all strengthen the vagal tone.

|This is pretty amazing, to read - thank you for sharing.
I discovered these things on my own-- ah, to have more awaken so less responsibility is on us few. 
hehe, actually it's beautiful all the time... Wish you all could see it- share love, peace... etc.
I know many do, am so grateful-- infinitely, basically.
Love and peace, J.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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topdog82
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Hey I have been doing yoga almost daily since I posted this. Good stuff. I am moving into advanced movements. Don't have cash to go to a yoga studio. At least not yet
It's more enjoyable than the gym so I kind of quit it for now. I will hit the gym again in a year or two. But right now just yoga
Anyways I just wanted to ask a question; would it be pointless to practice 1 hour in the morn and 1 in the eve?
I ask because inflammation and random stomach pains that I had had since a young age (like 7ish) on and off have strongly diminished. I have been eating "healthy" for years but yoga is the only thing that rly reversed these pains. I am far from cured but treated to a large extent. I am hoping to attempt to completely cure it by trying 2 hours a day for a few months. I already enjoy my current practice. But this wud b purely to see if I cud gain any more health benefits and end these abdominal pains for good. Would this work? I mean I have to try at the end of the day myself but is this a "done" thing? Is there a safe limit to yoga? Like would I be overextending my body's capabilities?
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yogabunny
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#23022590 - 03/19/16 07:44 AM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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Once in the morning and once in the evening is considered ideal, actually. You'd only be overdoing it if you're practicing in a way that is too much.
Maybe consider a gentler evening practice?
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topdog82
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: yogabunny]
#23022712 - 03/19/16 09:12 AM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well that's a lot of time to put into yoga. But I will try this. I shud be able to make time for a 2 hour practice and hopefully the health benefits pay off
I will do handstand and bridges etc. in the morn and more relaxing evening practice. In a about a year or two I will switch to schedule with wieghts involved. Thanks!
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#23023933 - 03/19/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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Addendum:
You would have to take it on faith that there is the life-force called Prana, just as one who enjoins the Chinese methods of exercise/martial arts accepts the reality of Chi (Qi). Prana is subdivided into 5 aspects or 'winds.' (In Tibetan Buddhism, they use the term 'winds'). But quite right about the Ayurvedic connection. The 5 forms of Prana are related to the 3 Doshas of Ayurveda: Kapha (the Water element), Pitta (the Fire element), and Vata (the Air element). It is the Vata or Air element that one is working with the forms of Prana (as in Pranayama, the 4th limb of 8-limbed Astanga Yoga, where Asana is the 3rd limb). One generates, stores, and transmutes these vital airs through the chakras, which have governance over various physical processes. As mentioned in this Wiki article, "All movement in the body is due to property of vata. Pain is the characteristic feature of deranged vata." So, in the Hatha [Sun-Moon] Yoga which focuses on the body and its movements via asana, strength and recuperation, including the reduction of pain is greatly enhanced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dosha
Related to this are the Muslim Fakirs of Northern India. These men are known for their demonstrations of immunity from pain, lying on beds of spikes, piercing themselves without apparent physical damage, etc. "The Fakir is a form of spiritual development which also focuses on the physical body. In the Fourth Way teaching of G. I. Gurdjieff the word fakir is used to denote the specifically physical path of development, as opposed to the words yogi (which Gurdjieff used for a path of mental development) and monk (which he used for the path of emotional development)." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fakir
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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topdog82
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Addendum:
You would have to take it on faith that there is the life-force called Prana, just as one who enjoins the Chinese methods of exercise/martial arts accepts the reality of Chi (Qi). Prana is subdivided into 5 aspects or 'winds.' (In Tibetan Buddhism, they use the term 'winds'). But quite right about the Ayurvedic connection. The 5 forms of Prana are related to the 3 Doshas of Ayurveda: Kapha (the Water element), Pitta (the Fire element), and Vata (the Air element). It is the Vata or Air element that one is working with the forms of Prana (as in Pranayama, the 4th limb of 8-limbed Astanga Yoga, where Asana is the 3rd limb). One generates, stores, and transmutes these vital airs through the chakras, which have governance over various physical processes. As mentioned in this Wiki article, "All movement in the body is due to property of vata. Pain is the characteristic feature of deranged vata." So, in the Hatha [Sun-Moon] Yoga which focuses on the body and its movements via asana, strength and recuperation, including the reduction of pain is greatly enhanced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dosha
Related to this are the Muslim Fakirs of Northern India. These men are known for their demonstrations of immunity from pain, lying on beds of spikes, piercing themselves without apparent physical damage, etc. "The Fakir is a form of spiritual development which also focuses on the physical body. In the Fourth Way teaching of G. I. Gurdjieff the word fakir is used to denote the specifically physical path of development, as opposed to the words yogi (which Gurdjieff used for a path of mental development) and monk (which he used for the path of emotional development)." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fakir
huh...very interesting stuff. Thats a pretty solid explanation. Obviously I can't sustain 2 hours a day. But I think this has some basic logic backing its efficacy up
Anyways...instead of expecting people to take these life-forces as "existing" why not just label it as another perspective. ( I am a neuroscience major) and in almost all neuro textbooks, the exact place where the nervous system branches out, these are where chakra's are. Considering that there are 7 chakra's and they are all placed EXACTLY where the nervous system branches into the body, I would personally assume that the chakras are basically places where lymph, blood, bile, hormones etc. are controlled/regulated and that the "airs" are to at least some extent analogous to these things
Anyways, my larger takeaway here is that instead of assuming these forces exist with no evidence, I just see it as another way of looking at the world. You call "atman" someone else calls it "God" and others call it "emptiness". And some say "he is nice" and others say "he is kind". Truth is, words are relative and merely point to a reality of some sort (like a finger). Both eastern and western modalities are legitamate and point to truth in their own way
/rant
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topdog82
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#23024072 - 03/19/16 05:59 PM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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also; so the movement of the body correlates to the realigning of vata; hence delivering the benefits of asanas on the body?
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#23026497 - 03/20/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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I had a New Testament professor in seminary who told me "Metaphor is more powerful than LSD." I didn't agree with him then and figured well, he never took LSD. But his words convey a lot of truth. Science is a collection of models, and models have been surpassed repeatedly in the history of science. The Rutherford atom was a model with which fission was produced. Today's atomic model shows just how simplistic the Rutherford model was. The 4 elements of Empedocles which Aristotle popularized and which were still used just a few hundred years ago still carry some esoteric weight in alchemy. You are not going to accurately reduce every esoteric proposition to some physical-empiricle datum. If you want to see nerve ganglia as corresponding to chakra psychology, that is not new. I don't necessarily believe C.W. Leadbeater when he illustrates 'astral vortices' of varying colors which can be seen by clairvoyants, but the chakras are said to be components of the astral sheath, the Sukshma Sarira which occupies the same space-time coordinates as the physical sheath or body (Sthula Sarira). The Causal Body (not a body of form, but a level of consciousness unextended in space and time) is said to give rise to the lower bodies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_physiology
I cannot prove in any way the Out-Of-Body-Experience (OOBE) that met much of the criteria for so-called astral projection, so it remains just a story for me to tell. But my nature during those brief moments did not comply with any hard science principles that I am aware of, and I did begin my academic career in the sciences after a childhood of science-related hobbies. There were no recording devices, but when 'I' looked down at my body from a position suspended about 12 feet in the air outside my bedroom window, and saw no body, I was whisked backwards through a window or wall, into my physical body which jackknifed up with a jolt to the Navel Center - where one's 'silver cord,' or astral umbilical is said to connect. I did not see the cord, and another observer probably would have seen my physical body on the bed, but no ghostly ectoplasmic astral body leaving and entering me. In other words, my consciousness was experienced 'AS IF' it was embodied as a subtle body, with directional vision and a sense of motion, but this was completely subjective. Similarly, there is no physical instrumentation that will detect anything "astral," only physiological changes in the physical body.
Chakras, winds, drops, and nadis are localized experiences relative to the incorporated astral and physical 'sheaths,' but scientific methods will not detect the astral sheath when it has (metaphorically speaking) discorporated from the physical body. It may be that my entire bodily consciousness assumed the same comprehensible 'form' as a 'phantom limb,' which we speak of metaphorically. We know that there is no ghostly limb remaining in space-time, but amputees experience it thusly. I experienced a sense of embodiment that could fly, float, and perceive some 10 feet outside my window and 12 feet off the ground. Science has a difficult time admitting that consciousness is not reducible to physical epiphenomena, or that there is correlation but not necessarily causation by the physical. I am also not asserting metaphysical dualism of mind and body even if it seems so.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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topdog82
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so in your opinion, do you think that science will, at some point, come to be able to detect these types of astral bodies? Just curious?
Although we cannot at this moment, I am personally of the belief that we just lack the current and more up to date worldview/biochemistry to understand any of this "metaphysical mumbo jumbo". Anyone who I have explained it to just deems it as a hoax of some sort. But I personally believe it to be very real, as I have experienced things that could have only been experienced assuming that these metaphysical "models" are true
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#23028448 - 03/20/16 11:35 PM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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"mumbo jumbo" is some slur on Afro-Carribean religions. "Gibberish" is a slur against the alchemist Ibn Jabbir Hayyan, whose Latinized name was Geber. And to the ignorant and uninitiated, anything that was beyond their limited knowledge-base was similar to Geber's veiled writings - Geber-ish - Gibberish. Metaphysical refers to a condition that is ontologically 'prior to the the physical.' Physics as it exists today, did not exist at The Beginning. It is foolish and shortsighted to attribute physical reality as the frame of reference for Ultimate Reality. This is like the rooster who thinks his crowing causes the sun to rise. Metaphysics, by definition, precedes physics.
I do not think that the physical sciences will master, which is to say reduce non-physical phenomena to physical phenomena. The physical plane is the result of an evolution of the Primal Energy at the Big Bang into positive and negative, proton and neutron, thence to Hydrogen and stars wherein all the other elements were forged. The Great Chain of Being followed from which we as self-conscious beings exist to ask these questions. Meanwhile, prior to the Big Bang, there was, and is, a Mystery. We as conscious beings are connected to this Mystery, and the language of metaphysics within philosophy, and of theology, both speak more phenomenologically accurately of 'soul' and 'spirit' than the language of science for which these verities fall outside of its purview. The material world is the last sphere on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, symbolically taken, and science is relevant only to physical phenomena, not spiritual, theological, metaphysical levels of Reality. Newton's laws is irrelevant to the Quantum level of physics, but beneath the Quantum Foam, quantifiability itself becomes irrelevant. As one presumably enters that which is metaphysical - physics (physis is nature in Greek) no longer exists, but its Source does. Science is relevant to space-time phenomena, but other dimensions of conscious experience exist which the scientific method will never extend itself into. How could it? Space-Time does not exist in timelessness and spacelessness and consciousness is unextended in space and time.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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yogabunny
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#23029066 - 03/21/16 07:30 AM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anyways...instead of expecting people to take these life-forces as "existing" why not just label it as another perspective. ( I am a neuroscience major) and in almost all neuro textbooks, the exact place where the nervous system branches out, these are where chakra's are. Considering that there are 7 chakra's and they are all placed EXACTLY where the nervous system branches into the body, I would personally assume that the chakras are basically places where lymph, blood, bile, hormones etc. are controlled/regulated and that the "airs" are to at least some extent analogous to these things
Does this relate to the vagus nerve as well?
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topdog82
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Quote:
yogabunny said:
Quote:
Anyways...instead of expecting people to take these life-forces as "existing" why not just label it as another perspective. ( I am a neuroscience major) and in almost all neuro textbooks, the exact place where the nervous system branches out, these are where chakra's are. Considering that there are 7 chakra's and they are all placed EXACTLY where the nervous system branches into the body, I would personally assume that the chakras are basically places where lymph, blood, bile, hormones etc. are controlled/regulated and that the "airs" are to at least some extent analogous to these things
Does this relate to the vagus nerve as well?
not really https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_cranial_nerves
There are 12 cranial nerves. They run from the brain to the body and the vagus nerve just seems to be some random nerve. This means that the cranial nerves run from the brain to different parts of the body in charge of sensory or motor function to "tell them" and communicate what to do. The vagus nerve is one the nerves that is in charge of throat function, heart rate, digestion, and breathing
I suspect that this is all simply the tip of the iceberg. I am sure the vagus nerve is in charge of MUCH more. But neurosceience is a constantly growing field. And the human body is really one huge blob of millions and billions of interconnected biochemical reactions. I am almost certain that there is more to this picture
I asked my neuro professor about the vagus nerve and he just told me that the vagus nerve was in charge of a lot of automatic sort of function. Keep in mind, he is a pretty knowledgable guy. when I googled his name, his name came up and he has participated in a handful of landmark studies regarding the amygdala and fear etc. Sort of when neuroscience was just starting to gain attention as a field
What I am trying to illustrate here is that form the western neuroscientists perspective, there is a lot to be learned. But for now, the "average" neuro student just sees the vagus nerve as some random nerve. Obviously there are a handful of studies showing that it has strong implications for emotional states. But my main point here is that I was incredibly surprised such an obscure nerve breifly mentioned in my class could be connected to so much more. In the next decade, as hatha yoga grows, and meditation/other spiritual practices grow, we will learn much more
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: "mumbo jumbo" is some slur on Afro-Carribean religions. "Gibberish" is a slur against the alchemist Ibn Jabbir Hayyan, whose Latinized name was Geber. And to the ignorant and uninitiated, anything that was beyond their limited knowledge-base was similar to Geber's veiled writings - Geber-ish - Gibberish. Metaphysical refers to a condition that is ontologically 'prior to the the physical.' Physics as it exists today, did not exist at The Beginning. It is foolish and shortsighted to attribute physical reality as the frame of reference for Ultimate Reality. This is like the rooster who thinks his crowing causes the sun to rise. Metaphysics, by definition, precedes physics.
I do not think that the physical sciences will master, which is to say reduce non-physical phenomena to physical phenomena. The physical plane is the result of an evolution of the Primal Energy at the Big Bang into positive and negative, proton and neutron, thence to Hydrogen and stars wherein all the other elements were forged. The Great Chain of Being followed from which we as self-conscious beings exist to ask these questions. Meanwhile, prior to the Big Bang, there was, and is, a Mystery. We as conscious beings are connected to this Mystery, and the language of metaphysics within philosophy, and of theology, both speak more phenomenologically accurately of 'soul' and 'spirit' than the language of science for which these verities fall outside of its purview. The material world is the last sphere on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, symbolically taken, and science is relevant only to physical phenomena, not spiritual, theological, metaphysical levels of Reality. Newton's laws is irrelevant to the Quantum level of physics, but beneath the Quantum Foam, quantifiability itself becomes irrelevant. As one presumably enters that which is metaphysical - physics (physis is nature in Greek) no longer exists, but its Source does. Science is relevant to space-time phenomena, but other dimensions of conscious experience exist which the scientific method will never extend itself into. How could it? Space-Time does not exist in timelessness and spacelessness and consciousness is unextended in space and time.
interesting perspective, and when you put it like that, I am unsure of what will truly end up happening in regards to where science meets metaphysics
My grandfather is a quantum physicist and he seems confident that physics will find the underpinnings of of this. Who knows at this point 
all we can do is be patient. If we dont find anything, I guess we will then conclude that some aspects of our reality can only be "experienced" and not "measured"
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why is hatha yoga so amazing? [Re: topdog82]
#23030920 - 03/21/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 10 months ago) |
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Before I was prescribed Midrin® for migraine in the early 1980s, one of my only resources to alleviate terrible head pain and nausea was to stimulate the vagus nerve by making myself retch (usually while under a hot shower). I didn't always vomit, especially with an empty stomach, but the stimulation seemed to reduce of eliminate the nausea that occurred with the eye and head-splitting pain.
There are 7 chakras listed in many Hindu Tantric texts, but the poster I have in my meditation room illustrates a few more. The Tibetan Buddhist Yoga chakra systems also vary. Lama Govinda names 5 centers, with the Ajna and Sahasrara combined and the Muladhara and Svadhisthana (anal-genital complex) combined. But I have also read that there are minor chakras in the penis (I don't know if there are corresponding ones in female anatomy). The Chinese Taoist Yoga has a different layout of psychic centers, as does the Hopi system and some of the Sufi systems. Georg Gurdjieff, basing his work on Sufi models, but he might come closest to where you are at right now as he enjoins some of the language of physiology while maintaining that there are these subjectively experienced 'bodies' and centers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_(Fourth_Way) Remember that there are correspondences between physical and subtle planes.
This is what all those magickal correspondences were about in Western occultism between the planets (including Sun and Moon in this model) and our 'inner planets,' the chakras; also correspondences with plants and stones. The correspondences did not operate by physical cause-effect science as we understand it, but in alchemy, for example, Kabbalism and astrology illustrated the human body's state as being the interaction between 'planetary spirits' which is to say, a level of consciousness associated with these orbs in our human orbit. There has even been illustrated physical changes in chromatography (or capillary dynamolysis) called the Kolisco Effect (after Rudolph Steiner's student Lily Kolisco) when specific planets are in close proximity to earth. http://www.sciencegroup.org.uk/kolisko/rohde.htm http://borderlandresearch.com/book/working-with-the-stars-in-earthly-substance
In these inter-related occult disciplines, the alchemist could not produce physical results in the laboratory unless he was in the proper state of consciousness. That is behind the alchemical adage: "Ora and Labora," Pray and Work. There seems to be a dualism, but there is a parallel path which is interactive. Theurgy is the magickal practice of arranging sacred symbols which "draw down" transcendental influence (to use the Wiccan expression wherein they "draw down the moon"). I've seen an amazing synchronicity on my wedding day through Theurgy, but ideally, the objects need to be transformed into mental structures for the alchemist. I'm not even suggesting turning Lead into Gold, but more subtle changes. Sir Isaac Newton identified with being an alchemist first and foremost. History remembers him as a mathematician of the first order, but he stayed up most of the night working on The Star Regulus of Antimony - an alchemical product in his laboratory.*
Similar ideas are described about the modern occultist Israel Regardie who was frustrated by his inability to create certain alchemical glasses, and he was told that it was because he was lacking in his inner life. I'm just relating these things to illustrate events that are said to occur on different levels, yet what chemist today acknowledges the Kolisco Effect that suggests that the warp and woof of space-time has noticeable effects on physical processes (which they would consider negligible). As long as the same chemical reaction can - for practical purposes - be recreated under the same conditions of STP, these shadowy effects are disregarded. And to dovetail on Kolisco, have you ever read any Rupert Sheldrake, or heard a talk on Morphic Resonance? Rupert was friends with Terrence McKenna, but he is anything but a stoner.
* "At exactly what point and under what circumstances Newton began to contemplate seriously the principle of attraction between physical bodies is impossible to say. The general idea of gravity, though far from well developed, is certainly hinted at in the "Hypothesis of Light," the controversial paper he sent to the Royal Society in December 1675. It has been observed that the lines of crystals that appeared to radiate out from the center of the star regulus "might just as well be considered as radiating into the center, which gives them the character of attraction rather than the character of emission." If, indeed, Newton viewed the star regulus in this light, then the very concept of gravitation "in which the lines of attraction run in to and converge in a center point" may have suggested itself to him. Present in this diminutive terrestrial orb was the invisible cosmic glue that binds the planets to the stars and the solar systems to the galaxies of the macrocosm. Most probably, however, the idea of gravitation had not taken such definite form in Newton's mind in the early 1670s, though there is no question that at its roots eventually found ready nourishment in the fertile field of his alchemical thought... It's extremely interesting to note that gravity is compared to the central point of geometric crystallization. " - http://www.levity.com/alchemy/markh_1.html
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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