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OfflineGeneralShroom
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Registered: 11/01/14
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: micro]
    #22407368 - 10/20/15 06:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

micro said:
also, it is definitely *not* too humid in there

there is zero condensation

there is also zero anything to hold in moisture and there are holes in it

get some perlite at least, you can add water to that

make sure the myc is not directly on the perlite though




The cake was taken out of the FC for the photo :smile: That's why there is no moist in the background.

Concluding - I need to increase FAE, and I'll see what happens.

Thanks guys :smile:


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OfflineGeneralShroom
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: micro]
    #22407384 - 10/20/15 06:30 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

micro said:
make sure the myc is not directly on the perlite though




One last question - why the myc should not sit on the perlite/verm directly?


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22407399 - 10/20/15 06:36 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It will attempt to colonize it in search of water AFAIK.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22407447 - 10/20/15 06:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

With a properly constructed fruiting chamber a casing often helps but is not essential for maintaining RH. Certainly it will assist in keeping a nice micro climate at the substrate surface which is essential for pin formation. But it should be noted that very high humidity is not required once the pinset has been well established. Cronicr has several very impressive open air grows that he did simply by misting regularly. This demonstrated that once the pinset is in and fruitbody development is underway, a RH of 35-40% or so is sufficient to keep the fruits developing at a reasonable rate. But the extra FAE really made a huge difference in his pinset and relative cap size.

The lanky air starved small cap grows of 20 years ago may have been impressive to some but many of us hobbiests today prefer a more robust looking fruit. It was found that the extra air exchange not only contributed to better pinsets and nicer looking fruits but, also kept many contams like cobweb, verticillium and pseudomonias in check.


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OfflineGeneralShroom
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22412352 - 10/21/15 06:23 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
With a properly constructed fruiting chamber a casing often helps but is not essential for maintaining RH. Certainly it will assist in keeping a nice micro climate at the substrate surface which is essential for pin formation. But it should be noted that very high humidity is not required once the pinset has been well established. Cronicr has several very impressive open air grows that he did simply by misting regularly. This demonstrated that once the pinset is in and fruitbody development is underway, a RH of 35-40% or so is sufficient to keep the fruits developing at a reasonable rate. But the extra FAE really made a huge difference in his pinset and relative cap size.

The lanky air starved small cap grows of 20 years ago may have been impressive to some but many of us hobbiests today prefer a more robust looking fruit. It was found that the extra air exchange not only contributed to better pinsets and nicer looking fruits but, also kept many contams like cobweb, verticillium and pseudomonias in check.




Thanks for the advice.

So - if I deduct properly - even though the cakes are in SGFC, once pinning starts I should remove the lid, and just keep misting.

I'll try that, let's see what happens.

:smile:


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22412358 - 10/21/15 06:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

A properly constructed SGFC offers more FAE than you'd ever need for cubensis.  I can only assume yours is not.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22412425 - 10/21/15 07:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GeneralShroom said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
With a properly constructed fruiting chamber a casing often helps but is not essential for maintaining RH. Certainly it will assist in keeping a nice micro climate at the substrate surface which is essential for pin formation. But it should be noted that very high humidity is not required once the pinset has been well established. Cronicr has several very impressive open air grows that he did simply by misting regularly. This demonstrated that once the pinset is in and fruitbody development is underway, a RH of 35-40% or so is sufficient to keep the fruits developing at a reasonable rate. But the extra FAE really made a huge difference in his pinset and relative cap size.

The lanky air starved small cap grows of 20 years ago may have been impressive to some but many of us hobbiests today prefer a more robust looking fruit. It was found that the extra air exchange not only contributed to better pinsets and nicer looking fruits but, also kept many contams like cobweb, verticillium and pseudomonias in check.




Thanks for the advice.

So - if I deduct properly - even though the cakes are in SGFC, once pinning starts I should remove the lid, and just keep misting.

I'll try that, let's see what happens.

:smile:




No I would leave the cakes in the chamber, they will be fine in it. I was making a point on how we grow today vs 20 years ago. A SGFC is a well designed chamber. Leave the lid on.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22412481 - 10/21/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I have to disagree. Fuzzy feet IME are either genetic or a symptom of low FAE.




^^^^^^^^^^  Low FAE has been my experience with fuzzy feet.  May be other causes too.  I've found that when the mushrooms get above an inch or two is when they consume the most water and grow fastest.  If the substrate is "dry" at this point, it will inhibit the final size.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22412932 - 10/21/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yaa that fuzzy feet is definitely from not enough fae/too high co2...

Those guys on the right look like either vert or bacteria, but my moneys on vert. It'll spread hard if you keep on restricting the fae.

Can we get pics of the sgfc? Did you for sure drill holes on the bottom, and elevate the chamber a few inches off the ground? Is it in the middle of an open room?


--------------------
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Edited by Mad Season (10/21/15 09:41 AM)


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OfflineGeneralShroom
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22416755 - 10/22/15 04:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Can we get pics of the sgfc? Did you for sure drill holes on the bottom, and elevate the chamber a few inches off the ground? Is it in the middle of an open room?




I see now where my mistake is (and I have few questions you may help me clarify):

- SGFC designs suggest using perlite at the bottom of the box, I've been using vermiculite

- I keep the box on one of the furniture, in the room I live in, so I was afraid the water from verm might drip down on it, and I didn't drill the bottom holes, hoping that wall holes and lid holes would be enough to provide air circulation, along with vaporizing water from verm.

This is how it looks like now:



- results show that I was wrong :smile: so I'll try to correct it: drill holes in the bottom, drain the verm, put back the verm and cakes and elevate the box above the surface.

My other question is - is the perlite "a must" in SGFC or verm does also the trick?

Thanks in advance :smile:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22416761 - 10/22/15 04:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Verm will not replace perlite as it retains the water and does not allow air to wick the water off of it which is what humidifies the chamber. Perlite can be replace by hydroton or clay balls, aquarium rocks, or even gravel.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22416962 - 10/22/15 06:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GeneralShroom said:

My other question is - is the perlite "a must" in SGFC or verm does also the trick?

Thanks in advance :smile:




I think Perlite has advantages over any other choice because it has unique water retention properties after soaking ... I think it has something to do with the amount of surface area it has ... Vermiculite definitely DOES NOT work for this purpose.  Get the perlite ... 4-5 inches on the bottom ... soak and drain it really good so all the fine dust drains out and fluff it up after you have really soaked it and let it drip out in the SGFC.  I find it easiest just to put the perlite in the SGFC dry, then run the hose through it for 10 minutes or so to really let it drain out.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineGeneralShroom
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22417009 - 10/22/15 07:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Get the perlite ... 4-5 inches on the bottom ... soak and drain it really good so all the fine dust drains out and fluff it up after you have really soaked it and let it drip out in the SGFC.  I find it easiest just to put the perlite in the SGFC dry, then run the hose through it for 10 minutes or so to really let it drain out.




All right :smile:
I just hope once it drains well it won't drip on the furniture, or I'll have to put something under the box to collect the water.

I wonder - how long the perlite stays wet? Will the initial soaking be enough for 2-3 weeks, or I need to spray it with water once a while?


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22417027 - 10/22/15 07:23 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GeneralShroom said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Get the perlite ... 4-5 inches on the bottom ... soak and drain it really good so all the fine dust drains out and fluff it up after you have really soaked it and let it drip out in the SGFC.  I find it easiest just to put the perlite in the SGFC dry, then run the hose through it for 10 minutes or so to really let it drain out.




All right :smile:
I just hope once it drains well it won't drip on the furniture, or I'll have to put something under the box to collect the water.

I wonder - how long the perlite stays wet? Will the initial soaking be enough for 2-3 weeks, or I need to spray it with water once a while?




I run the hose and really soak it outside .... kinda shake it real good before I bring it inside then just put a trash bag on the floor under underneath it.  It's absolutely critical that the SGFC is up about 6 inches off the floor or table you put it in so air can come up through the holes in the bottom.  I just nailed some 2x6's together like this  I----I  as a stand to put it on. 

I live in a really dry area so my SGFC probably dries out faster than yours will.  Looks like you have trays so I'm not sure how much you'll need to mist them, especially if they're cased ... just keep the casing moist.  You can easily just lift up the trays every few days and mist the perlite real good  and it will definitely work for a few weeks.  If possible, kinda prop the trays up a bit (I use big marbles  under the tray to do this) so they're not resting right on the perlite ... this allows more evaporation to come up through the perlite rocks.  Even if they're up just a half inch or so off the surface of the perlite, that will be good.  You don't want the trays themselves to block all the air flow coming up from the bottom.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineGeneralShroom
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22417051 - 10/22/15 07:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
I run the hose and really soak it outside .... kinda shake it real good before I bring it inside then just put a trash bag on the floor under underneath it.  It's absolutely critical that the SGFC is up about 6 inches off the floor or table you put it in so air can come up through the holes in the bottom.  I just nailed some 2x6's together like this  I----I  as a stand to put it on. 

I live in a really dry area so my SGFC probably dries out faster than yours will.  Looks like you have trays so I'm not sure how much you'll need to mist them, especially if they're cased ... just keep the casing moist.  You can easily just lift up the trays every few days and mist the perlite real good  and it will definitely work for a few weeks.  If possible, kinda prop the trays up a bit (I use big marbles  under the tray to do this) so they're not resting right on the perlite ... this allows more evaporation to come up through the perlite rocks.  Even if they're up just a half inch or so off the surface of the perlite, that will be good.  You don't want the trays themselves to block all the air flow coming up from the bottom.





Thanks for the advice :smile:

Regarding the trays - the cake sits in it until pinning, then I take the cake out of it, allowing the fruits to grow also on the sides. Quite many of them grow there usually.

I'll switch to perlite, drill holes in the bottom and elevate the box min 6 inches. And I'll remember to prop the trays up.

Thanks again :smile:


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22417066 - 10/22/15 07:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GeneralShroom said:

Regarding the trays - the cake sits in it until pinning, then I take the cake out of it, allowing the fruits to grow also on the sides. Quite many of them grow there usually.

I'll switch to perlite, drill holes in the bottom and elevate the box min 6 inches. And I'll remember to prop the trays up.

Thanks again :smile:




I think that taking the cakes out of trays that big is possible, but if you do that, you should DEFINITELY dunk in water and roll it in some vermiculite.  When I've used trays, I've always left the colonized mycellium IN THE TRAY and just cased it with 1/4 inch or so of vermiculite and that tends to improve the pinning on top and not on the sides and it really helps keep the moisture just right.  You might want to ask some of the real experts here about taking a cake that big out of its tray.  It seems to me most people don't do that, but maybe it's OK. 

I think, usually, if you take it out of the tray or out of a jar, you do that BEFORE it starts pinning.

Just trying to be helpful.  If it was me, I'd leave it in the tray, case it with vermiculite and keep the casing layer moist with occasional misting.  You'll get good results that way.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineGeneralShroom
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22417129 - 10/22/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
I think that taking the cakes out of trays that big is possible, but if you do that, you should DEFINITELY dunk in water and roll it in some vermiculite.  When I've used trays, I've always left the colonized mycellium IN THE TRAY and just cased it with 1/4 inch or so of vermiculite and that tends to improve the pinning on top and not on the sides and it really helps keep the moisture just right.  You might want to ask some of the real experts here about taking a cake that big out of its tray.  It seems to me most people don't do that, but maybe it's OK. 

I think, usually, if you take it out of the tray or out of a jar, you do that BEFORE it starts pinning.

Just trying to be helpful.  If it was me, I'd leave it in the tray, case it with vermiculite and keep the casing layer moist with occasional misting.  You'll get good results that way.




Did work usually :smile: I case the tray with wet verm on the top. On the photo it's not visible as the mycelium has grown through.

I'll test your method too.

I guess the reason the pins appear on the sides is that light accesses the mycelium trough the transparent walls of the tray, once the cake is in the box. If there was aluminum foil in the tray, covering the bottom and sides of the cake, pins wouldn't form on the sides - that's my guess.

Or maybe - I'll put the wet verm on the bottom and sides of the tray as well, before I fill it with the colonized rye/wet werm mixture. Then it would be shielded and there would be water on each side.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22422549 - 10/23/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GeneralShroom said:

I guess the reason the pins appear on the sides is that light accesses the mycelium trough the transparent walls of the tray, once the cake is in the box. If there was aluminum foil in the tray, covering the bottom and sides of the cake, pins wouldn't form on the sides - that's my guess.





I've heard the side pinning isn't really related to light, but  more the mini micro climate of increased humidity by the sides ... but don't know for sure.  For me, I've found the way to get rid of side pinning is through finding the right culture that prefers to pin off the casing up top.  Easier said than done, obviously!


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineGeneralShroom
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Posts: 21
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22425792 - 10/24/15 04:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
I've heard the side pinning isn't really related to light, but  more the mini micro climate of increased humidity by the sides ... but don't know for sure.  For me, I've found the way to get rid of side pinning is through finding the right culture that prefers to pin off the casing up top.  Easier said than done, obviously!





Probably :smile: It doesn't bother me, as the side fruits have been large enough as well.

So far I learned not to take the cakes out from the tray before pinning - the cake sides have not been shielded (cased) with verm, and green mold used to attack some of the cakes. Doesn't happen when cakes are taken out right when first pins appear. I guess the mycelium is strong enough by then, not to let "strangers" in.

Anyway - on Monday I'm rebuilding the box into full SGFC, as in the instructions. Hope this will help with larger fruits and eliminate eventual contams.


Edited by GeneralShroom (10/24/15 04:14 AM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: B+ are these aborts? [Re: GeneralShroom]
    #22426383 - 10/24/15 09:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GeneralShroom said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
I've heard the side pinning isn't really related to light, but  more the mini micro climate of increased humidity by the sides ... but don't know for sure.  For me, I've found the way to get rid of side pinning is through finding the right culture that prefers to pin off the casing up top.  Easier said than done, obviously!





Probably :smile: It doesn't bother me, as the side fruits have been large enough as well.

So far I learned not to take the cakes out from the tray before pinning - the cake sides have not been shielded (cased) with verm, and green mold used to attack some of the cakes. Doesn't happen when cakes are taken out right when first pins appear. I guess the mycelium is strong enough by then, not to let "strangers" in.

Anyway - on Monday I'm rebuilding the box into full SGFC, as in the instructions. Hope this will help with larger fruits and eliminate eventual contams.




Over the last year, I've gone in this direction which I find pretty much eliminates contamination problems completely.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21168958/fpart/1/vc/1

And this direction with growing invitro in bottles ... no need at all for a fruiting chamber ... the bottom watering method is ingenious ...

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21390984

I put little home made hoods on them when they need more elbow room ...



And this is what the bottles can generate ... no SGFC required



--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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