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morrowasted
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: psi]
#22409315 - 10/20/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: In the past I've seen some of morrow's stuff that I thought at the time was intended to be unreadable by non-initiates to his field of study (or maybe it's not intentional, I don't know,) but in this case I wouldn't say that. The title is likely to be pretty incomprehensible to many people without a dictionary in reach, but IMO the article itself is written in a very readable style for the most part, and the examples he's chosen are pretty easy to relate to. Good piece of writing overall I would say.
Thanks, psi
Believe it or not, I try pretty hard to make my stuff readable to a general audience these days. As you know, in the past it was a lot more technical. And that is NOT because I used to want to "sound even smarter" than I do now, it just because, oh, you know, I was in graduate school in the field I was writing about and I happened to know a lot about it (in the case of linguistics), or had had a job related to what I was talking about and knew a lot about it (in the case of neuroscience).
I could just as easily turn this around and say that you guys are "trying to sound dumb" by using "small words."
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: morrowasted]
#22409675 - 10/20/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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people take offence over people's "smarts"...LOL.
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: akira_akuma]
#22409759 - 10/20/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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It has nothing to do with "smArts", Thats the problem..
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morrowasted
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: zZZz] 1
#22409802 - 10/20/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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no, it has to do with being unfamiliar with using language in a certain kind of way, such that using language in that way gives you the impression that people only do so in order to "make themselves seem X"
"thugs talk like thugs to make themselves them thuggish"
"geeks talk like geeks to make themselves seem geeky"
"academics use big words to make themselves seem smarter"
no. no. no.
people use the words they do because those are the words they have been exposed to that covey the kind of meaning they want to convey. When you want to convey very specific kinds of meaning without writing wordy and potentially vague sentences, you end up using less common words.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: morrowasted] 2
#22410404 - 10/20/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: LMAO if you think that is difficult to read I feel bad for you dude. I work really hard to break things down into the simplest terms possible without compromising semantic integrity. In any case, I didn't "invent" this cycle, the image was located on a philosophy forum and I am simply discussing it. Sorry it's hard for you to see past the words to the ideas being conveyed. And functional tension in the field of consciousness IS mentioned in the first example, just not "by name": "The idea then spreads on the internet, and begins to resonate first at the level of mind, as simply a set of facts and a theory." I don't want to bog the reader down with memorizing a system of terminology: I'm not trying to "push this meme" (the axiological transmutation scheme), to sell a theory that is true. The truth of the theory isn't that important, and neither are the terms it is cached out in. The point is for people to register what is going on at the level of social dialogue, so that they can be more conscientious about what they what they say and do.
A philosophy forum, one full of people who've studied this type of subject matter for years. Which is almost precisely why its written in a dense, expert style format. Even with you elucidating on a few points theres still a very wide swath of knowledge anyone would have to be privy too to fully understand it in the manner its written. Which is stupid since your writing about a phenomenon that thrives on simple, easy to understand templates, and im positive that 75% of the chaff is simply there to look flashy in research articles. Half the shit really istn even necessary. Metaphysics in particular, like what in the fuck does that have to do with memes?
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Malcolm_Xtasy
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: Bodhi of Ankou] 4
#22410457 - 10/20/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh look,
Another one of morrow's "I'm so fuckin smart" threads
Get over yourself bro
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22410504 - 10/20/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im curious to how whoever wrote this decided that these four elements were absolutely fundamental to the evolution of memes. That you could really boil down something as loose as learned behavior down to four domains, and decide that those really were the definitive variables involved or even a few of the most pertinent. What else out there could possibly effect the propagation and evolution of mimetic behaviour? What effect does mob mentality have on them? or media and by extension economics? How much of this article is just loose amorphous bullshit that sounds pleasant to the ears? I might not have the linguistic furnishings that come with philosophic study, but I know enough to be thoroughly unimpressed with this articles substance, and direction.
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morrowasted
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#22410674 - 10/20/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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if you don't like the way the article is written, fine. don't like it.
the simple fact of the matter is that it is NOT amorphous bullshit that sounds pleasing to the ear, it is an article with a SERIOUS message about how the boundaries of conversation are dictated. this message has very SERIOUS implications in your life. the way you think about the world is structured by the dialogue of the culture in which you live, which is structured by the process I have outlined in my article. it is not my fault that you cannot see the forest for the trees.
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morrowasted
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy] 1
#22410679 - 10/20/15 06:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Malcolm_Xtasy said: Oh look,
Another one of morrow's "I'm so fuckin smart" threads
Get over yourself bro 
oh look, another one of Malcolm_Xtasy's "I'm too cool for school" replies
get over yourself bro
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zZZz
jesus


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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: morrowasted]
#22410714 - 10/20/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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ur threads about ur drug fueled escapades in indonesia i think it was, now those were well written.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: morrowasted] 2
#22410717 - 10/20/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not even sure why you're so upset. I read your article three times and it just seems like you're too caught up on being wordy instead of getting your point across.
Quote:
I was in graduate school in the field I was writing about and I happened to know a lot about it (in the case of linguistics), or had had a job related to what I was talking about and knew a lot about it (in the case of neuroscience).
What happened with graduate school? Also, I'm curious as to what job you held regarding neuroscience.
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: morrowasted]
#22410763 - 10/20/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: if you don't like the way the article is written, fine. don't like it.
the simple fact of the matter is that it is NOT amorphous bullshit that sounds pleasing to the ear, it is an article with a SERIOUS message about how the boundaries of conversation are dictated. this message has very SERIOUS implications in your life. the way you think about the world is structured by the dialogue of the culture in which you live, which is structured by the process I have outlined in my article. it is not my fault that you cannot see the forest for the trees.
Theres several other variables I can think of that would easily hold just as much if not more sway on behavioral evolution then the 4 you listed. Physical form, emotional architecture, and language. Your picture of it is so laughably incomplete, and I can tell by the way you talk about your grand article you think its really something definitive and up there in value. You're touching on something so immensely broad that trying to boil it down to four talking points is nothing less then stupid.
Oh also
Edited by Bodhi of Ankou (10/20/15 07:17 PM)
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Malcolm_Xtasy
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#22410802 - 10/20/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nah man he actually tried super hard to dumb it down for us. I guess we're just too stupid.
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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morrowasted
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22411203 - 10/20/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Malcolm_Xtasy said: I'm not even sure why you're so upset. I read your article three times and it just seems like you're too caught up on being wordy instead of getting your point across.
Quote:
I was in graduate school in the field I was writing about and I happened to know a lot about it (in the case of linguistics), or had had a job related to what I was talking about and knew a lot about it (in the case of neuroscience).
What happened with graduate school? Also, I'm curious as to what job you held regarding neuroscience.
If you think that article is wordy, you're a fucking imbecile.
I failed out of grad school. I worked as a research assistant in a cognitive neuropsych lab during undergrad.
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morrowasted
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#22411238 - 10/20/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:
morrowasted said: if you don't like the way the article is written, fine. don't like it.
the simple fact of the matter is that it is NOT amorphous bullshit that sounds pleasing to the ear, it is an article with a SERIOUS message about how the boundaries of conversation are dictated. this message has very SERIOUS implications in your life. the way you think about the world is structured by the dialogue of the culture in which you live, which is structured by the process I have outlined in my article. it is not my fault that you cannot see the forest for the trees.
Theres several other variables I can think of that would easily hold just as much if not more sway on behavioral evolution then the 4 you listed. Physical form, emotional architecture, and language. Your picture of it is so laughably incomplete, and I can tell by the way you talk about your grand article you think its really something definitive and up there in value. You're touching on something so immensely broad that trying to boil it down to four talking points is nothing less then stupid.
Oh also

By all means, if you have something to contribute to the picture, please do so. But don't accuse me of "losing sight of common ground and turning a phrase into something nobody else really understands but me" and then turn around and use phrases like "emotional architecture". Also, Einstein can't elaborate the theory of general or special relativity in "simple terms" and be honest about what it means. He can create analogies to get people to arrive at an approximate understanding of relativity, but the theory of relativity itself cannot be elaborated in "simple terms."
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Malcolm_Xtasy
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: morrowasted] 3
#22411246 - 10/20/15 09:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you think that article is wordy, you're a fucking imbecile.
Quote:
I failed out of grad school.
Oh ok man. I'm the imbecile?
How did you manage to fail out of something you're obviously so good at? Your professors probably told you your papers were too wordy and you got all butthurt and told them to fuck off.
You might wanna get your keyboard checked out, bro. You should also look up the phrase "diarrhea of the keyboard" to get a more comprehensive explanation of your affliction
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: morrowasted] 2
#22411253 - 10/20/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Which is no different then you creating analogies so people can arrive at a basic understanding of the concepts your trying to convey, as it is your ideas are nothing more then over-educated bullshit that looks good on paper. Functional tension in the field of consciousness he says? Must be grade A shit! The point is that every single thing you get qurried on requires multiple, lengthy replies to accurately describe what it is you were accurately trying to state, and its never even close to what you orginally started out with. Its like you expect everyone just to follow this stupid little dialogue you invented over the years after reading countless texts and just pop into the know. It might cover a wide base of knowledge but its plain fucking stupid in the way its presented.
Axiological transmutation sounds like super duper cool though, and even that word is used incorrectly.
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morrowasted
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22411260 - 10/20/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Malcolm_Xtasy said: Nah man he actually tried super hard to dumb it down for us. I guess we're just too stupid. 
I'm beginning to suspect that this is the crux of the matter. The real issue here is that it you both seem to be self-absorbed idiots with highly skewed perspectives. Solve that problem, and your understanding of what I've written ought to clear right up. Plenty of other people have read, understood, enjoyed, and responded to what I've written in useful and meaningful ways throughout the internet. They obviously understood the message I was trying to get across, despite the fact that it was shrouded behind a cloak of three-and-sometimes-even-four syllable words.
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Hobozen


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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: morrowasted]
#22411265 - 10/20/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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morrowasted said: If you think that article is wordy, you're a fucking imbecile.
I failed out of grad school. I worked as a research assistant in a cognitive neuropsych lab during undergrad.
Quote:
LMAO if you think that is difficult to read I feel bad for you dude.

that's not very nice. the majority of the people here who read your article probably aren't too pleased with those comments i quoted above. you know there's been lots of great thinkers throughout history who were illiterate?
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morrowasted
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Re: The Axiological Transmutation (Full Article) [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#22411290 - 10/20/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oh ok man. I'm the imbecile?
How did you manage to fail out of something you're obviously so good at? Your professors probably told you your papers were too wordy and you got all butthurt and told them to fuck off.
You might wanna get your keyboard checked out, bro. You should also look up the phrase "diarrhea of the keyboard" to get a more comprehensive explanation of your affliction
I failed out of graduate school because I was addicted to oxycontin and I was teaching classes while high on oxycontin and got reported for doing so. I did well in my classes.
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Which is no different then you creating analogies so people can arrive at a basic understanding of the concepts your trying to convey, as it is your ideas are nothing more then over-educated bullshit that looks good on paper. Functional tension in the field of consciousness he says? Must be grade A shit! The point is that every single thing you get qurried on requires multiple, lengthy replies to accurately describe what it is you were accurately trying to state, and its never even close to what you orginally started out with. Its like you expect everyone just to follow this stupid little dialogue you invented over the years after reading countless texts and just pop into the know. It might cover a wide base of knowledge but its plain fucking stupid in the way its presented.
Axiological transmutation sounds like super duper cool though, and even that word is used incorrectly.
I dont even know what you just said. Talk about horribly constructed sentences. No wonder I am the writer and you're not. Qurried on?
I guess the saying is true, you can't know you're doing something right until people start hating on you for doing it.
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