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Offlinefuzzysig
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god vs reality
    #22400914 - 10/19/15 12:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

how can there be god when everyone sees different reality
whenone persons reality justifies killing someone and other person's reality prevents him?

what I mean is it doesn't seem logical to have god while also having everyone see their own reality?

having right and wrong vs the universe where theres no right and wrong. it doesn't make sense to me.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: god vs reality [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22401005 - 10/19/15 01:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I consider confusion regarding these matters to be a sign of sanity. I don't believe in god but that doesn't mean reality makes sense.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinefuzzysig
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Re: god vs reality [Re: Rahz]
    #22401045 - 10/19/15 02:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

what I mean is. why should I be good?

theres no light without dark
theres no matter without empty space.
theres no good without bad
theres always two on opposite ends balancing out the equation
can you imagine our universe completely filled with light alone
or complete darkness and empty space?

this is more or less related to our limiting beliefs that prevent us fron doing things we want but go against our values or beliefs


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Offlinebastian
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Re: god vs reality [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22401152 - 10/19/15 03:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fuzzysig said:
how can there be god when everyone sees different reality
whenone persons reality justifies killing someone and other person's reality prevents him?

what I mean is it doesn't seem logical to have god while also having everyone see their own reality?

having right and wrong vs the universe where theres no right and wrong. it doesn't make sense to me.




Are you asking why, if there is a god, are we born into a world scheme that allows for so many different interpretations? In other words, if there is a God, why does God set so many people up for failure and damnation by organizing the world in such a way that cultural circumstances more or less predetermine a majority of people into believing the wrong thing?

Quote:

what I mean is. why should I be good?

theres no light without dark
theres no matter without empty space.
theres no good without bad
theres always two on opposite ends balancing out the equation
can you imagine our universe completely filled with light alone
or complete darkness and empty space?

this is more or less related to our limiting beliefs that prevent us fron doing things we want but go against our values or beliefs





This is a confusing question.  Are you saying that since there is an apparent Good/Bad dichotomy that is essential to the way of the world, why attempt to deny one of the two sides? 
And are you asking why you should deny what you personally find to be bad behavior, or bad behavior according to the law, or the bible, or what?  Just trying to narrow down this thought.


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InvisiblePsilocybePhilosphy
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Re: god vs reality [Re: bastian]
    #22401186 - 10/19/15 04:36 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Think about this...  God exists in ones reality when they perceive reality with god in it.  Perception/perspective are things that really makes philosophy possible,  that being said people enjoy perceiving things to be one extreme or the other humans are creatures of drama and exaggeration.  Things in life do and will balance one way or the other it is what makes reality so beautiful, It is more realistic to assume that most things around us are actually not on one extreme side or the other but that we simply perceive something as being on one side or the other.  take good vs evil for example.  Even the good guy does bad things and even the evil guy does good things but why do we insist on calling it the extreme?

If you think about these things and then answer some of your questions...

Q:"why should I be good?" 
A:If you act bad then life usually becomes bad.

Q:"how can there be god when everyone sees different reality"
A: Because people can perceive reality around them and if they include a god in their reality then that is how the god can exist in their reality...  Also how do you define god, gods,  or a god?  I myself feel that there is something out there that is big and powerful but it could be the universe,  an alien species,  or my imagination,  who really knows it's a human trait to feel this way isn't it? 

I think when you open yourself up to mother nature we can become very happy on this planet the feeling that overwhelms someone when they ground them self to the planet can be as good or better than having a relationship with a god. 

-J*


--------------------
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: god vs reality [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22405427 - 10/19/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fuzzysig said:
what I mean is. why should I be good?

....






1) It is a relief from being selfish, which is sort of a contracted state.

2) It is an antidote or remedy for our tendency to get confused, in tricky situations.

3) It feels better.
Most folks who have done many evil deeds don't look happy.

4) There was the guy who woke up, heard a burglar, grabbed his gun,
and shot his big toe.


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InvisibleNemodeus
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Re: god vs reality [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22405759 - 10/19/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fuzzysig said:
what I mean is. why should I be good?

theres no light without dark
theres no matter without empty space.
theres no good without bad
theres always two on opposite ends balancing out the equation
can you imagine our universe completely filled with light alone
or complete darkness and empty space?

this is more or less related to our limiting beliefs that prevent us fron doing things we want but go against our values or beliefs




Because to bring pain to others is to bring pain to yourself. You have already seen through the duality, now find the singularity.


--------------------
In an entheogen influenced moment of clarity I came to understand that reality manifests as a dream from the collective subconscious minds of all conscious entities. Nothingness made something because we collectively believe it into being, and physical laws given power by the reinforcement of conscious observation. Creation, destruction, and even time itself are but an aspect of ourselves and we of them. Life and death, simply illusions we face from a limited grasp of our own existence. We are one, all is eternal.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: god vs reality [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22405895 - 10/19/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Most humans do not really think.

They think that they think.

Note: language is tricky, in the sentence above "think" has 2 different meanings; we are not necessarily taught about this.

Even those who see that others don't really think, may find this frightening, because it must mean they too are more limited than they want to believe, and that their friends are not as wonderful as they would like them to be.
And in fact humans in general are not so special. We are all so vain.

If humans were ruled by reason, advertising would not work. The lottery would not earn money, people wouldn't 'play' slot machines,
they wouldn't become boxers or football players, if they were reasonable. Opera and soap opera and most movies have little intellectual content.

However if you tell humans they don't think, they will become angry (totally unaware that by doing so they are proving the contrary of what they wish to).

So in the far east they say:
He who knows does not speak,
and he who speaks does not know.

Humans are conditioned, to believe they are the animals with the largest brains, and therefore the most intelligent, logical, and wise.
But human reason is a small part of the organism's brain function contained in a much larger organ most of whose programing is instinctual and emotional.
Digestion, sleep, walking, breathing/carbon dioxide level, blood sugar balance, growth, sensing perception, etc.--all are controlled by the unconscious instinctual animal part of the brain. Even talking itself is largely unconscious. We don't really know how we find the right words, at the right time, to make, sense, when talking. And talking is a large part of thinking. The surprising conclusion would seem to be  that thinking is largely unconscious. However if we consider dreams, it becomes obvious that the unconscious mind can regulate thinking quite effectively.

A strange aspect of the conscious thinking process while 'awake', is that the aware aspect of self tends to identify with the thought process. We tell ourselves stories about who we are and take these stories to be truth.
Some mystics, seem to suggest that there are 2 selves, and that these stories are a false self, and the true self is more like intangible awareness, or the void.

So much meditative practice deals with loosening interest and belief in 'our' thoughts.

Many of the thoughts we have, were acquired while young and impressionable from parents, teachers, religious leaders, peers, and bosses. They are mixed with our personal and social habits.
These authorities had to domesticate us from the biting, screaming, wild children we once were. But they over did their jobs and as adults the majority of people are so over conditioned they don't have a clue.
On top of this we have biological reproductive programing which has managed to cover the poor earth with billions of humans, (with their cities, wars, and pollution). Except for a few monks and nuns we are at core hormone junkies. Sexual motivation is influenced by hormones such as Dopamine, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, oxytocin, and vasopressin. But we like to tell ourselves stories, about ourselves, purpose, meaning, morality, and anything else that sounds lofty and pure and noble and admirable. But I doubt the earth is fooled.
-----------------------
http://www.adsavvy.org/understanding-the-human-herd-mentality/
QUOTE:
"Researchers at Leeds University, led by Prof Jens Krause, performed a series of experiments where volunteers were told to randomly walk around a large hall without talking to each other. A select few were then given more detailed instructions on where to walk. The scientists discovered that people end up blindly following one or two people who appear to know where they’re going.
The published results showed that it only takes 5% of what the scientists called “informed individuals” to influence the direction of a crowd of around 200 people. The remaining 95% follow without even realizing it.

“There are strong parallels with animal grouping behavior,” says Prof Krause, who reported his study with John Dyer in the Animal Behavior Journal. “We’ve all been in situations where we get swept along by the crowd but what’s interesting about this research is that our participants ended up making a consensus decision despite the fact that they weren’t allowed to talk or gesture to one another… In most cases the participants didn’t realize they were being led by others.”
This is excellent example of how the human brain is setup for social life. Even without a top-down organizer or any obvious rules, society just falls into place. Unfortunately, that “follow the herd” mentality isn’t always beneficial. If we’re not fully versed on a subject, we tend to follow the guy who appears to know more than we do. That sort of behavior applies to more than just random walking, we do it in everyday life from picking political candidates to deciding what type of car to buy."
UNQUOTE


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: god vs reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #22406029 - 10/19/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

In the Leeds study it was 95 percent of the group that was not given a path to walk that followed those that were, not the remaining 95 percent as stated in the article you quoted. But even with this high of a percentage there could be other reasons for those not given a path to mimic those who were besides herding instinct.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: god vs reality [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22406620 - 10/19/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fuzzysig said:
what I mean is. why should I be good?

theres no light without dark
theres no matter without empty space.
theres no good without bad
theres always two on opposite ends balancing out the equation
can you imagine our universe completely filled with light alone
or complete darkness and empty space?

this is more or less related to our limiting beliefs that prevent us fron doing things we want but go against our values or beliefs




Well, everyone has some kind of ethical code. What one believes to be good or bad will vary from person to person but we didn't create polarity. The best we can do is rise above it to some degree, and it's questionable whether that is a lofty goal (is it good to rise above goodness?), so the vein of your curiosity is understandable. As for the question "why be good?", do it because you feel to (if in fact you do) and/or because it confers some advantage. In that respect it's selfish nature is apparent but that doesn't make it wrong, just probably best not to exhibit false pretense or have a puffed up head about it.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: god vs reality [Re: falcon]
    #22406737 - 10/19/15 11:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

actually I meant to post this elsewhere

in any case do you have a better reference for the study?

"herd" instinct is probably considered pejorative by most, but if we use the term 'group dynamics' probably it explains a lot of human behavior, better than either compassion or reason do.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: god vs reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #22410023 - 10/20/15 04:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Nah, I don't have a better link and I think I'm wrong about at least what the authors of the study have said, they are claiming that everyone follows. But I'm skeptical about the study, one I don't have access to the paper, two those who were not given a path were told not to take one so they did have some instructions and that makes any conclusions you draw from the study beyond this special case suspect.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: god vs reality [Re: falcon]
    #22411869 - 10/21/15 12:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

thank you for your response.
A little search and I found many more experiments which paint a less than flattering picture of Homo Sapiens. They are by name :

The Stanford Prison Experiment (1971)
The Milgram Experiment (1961)
The Asch Conformity Experiment (1953)
“Candid Camera” elevator experiment (1962)
The Good Samaritan Experiment (1973)
Bystander Apathy Experiment (1968)

considering the daily news etc., I unfortunately doubt they are all bogus in their conclusions.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: god vs reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #22415627 - 10/21/15 08:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

don't remember the details, but the the first two of those were flawed the others I'm unfamiliar with,  but I'd imagine the others aren't much better at being science.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: god vs reality [Re: falcon]
    #22419837 - 10/22/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

sounds like you're an optimist when it comes to human nature.
which is probably best for emotional health...
you may argue with interpretation of experiments
but
I don't feel either the state of the planet
or a study of history and anthropology
support such a view
let alone basic biological and evolutionary theory

I prefer Mark Twain and Honoré Daumier to Walt Disney


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: god vs reality [Re: laughingdog]
    #22420242 - 10/22/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not so much an optimist as skeptical of this kind of study, I don't think they lend as much support as they'd want you to believe as they are set up with the participants aware that something is up, this IMO makes anything they surmise from the study and want to apply to human nature in general suspect.


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Offlinefuzzysig
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Re: god vs reality [Re: falcon]
    #22429520 - 10/24/15 09:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

its a hard question to ask.
I cant find a way to word it properly

but ill try this one

how can we have god with his rules when science says with almost 100% certainty that everyone sees reality differently
so how can we have a single set of rules when everyone's view is different.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: god vs reality [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22429676 - 10/24/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

How can we share a language when we see the world differently?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: god vs reality [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22431213 - 10/25/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Science is the way of g*d :laugh:
Meaning, only those occasion which bend science are those caused by g*d, and not a trickster.


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Offlinefuzzysig
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Re: god vs reality [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #22433052 - 10/25/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

language is communication tool. and no we don't share language.
every language is proven to develop brain and thinking differently


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: god vs reality [Re: fuzzysig]
    #22434456 - 10/26/15 12:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I believe its because we are experiencing the world subjectively, seperate from God.

I think God is in a higher dimension or realm than humans (and Earth). In Gods realm, everything is perfect duality.

But in our "living realm", its no where near as clear cut as Gods realm.

Maybe God's plan for humans is to look past our own personal interperation of the world and see The Truth beyond our senses. A leap of faith if you will.


--------------------
"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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