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Gloogloos
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Registered: 01/28/12
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How to prevent reactions of psychedelic compounds with air in powdered sclerotia
#22392298 - 10/17/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I am moving onto growing more edible mushrooms so my fruiting room is being dedicated to edibles and I would like to start producing sclerotia instead of cubes to save space.
From what I understand they are best fresh, but when dried they are basically stones and are difficult to eat, so I had an idea to powder them with a commercial coffee grinder and put them into water soluble capsules so I could simply vacuum seal the caps in a bag and keep them till use, and then swallow them or dissolve into tea or whatever.
However from what I understand, the active compounds react with free oxygen, which in normal bodies isn't an issue but when ground, due to the increased surface area, its a huge issue. So between grinding them and sealing the capsules in the airtight bags I would risk a massive reduction in potency. When they are whole they should be fine, and when they are in the bags they would be fine, but when processing they will react.
My first idea was to dry normally, build an airtight glovebox and place the sclerotia, coffee grinder and capsule filler (and caps) in it and then by combustion burn off the free oxygen. However I highly doubt that would even put a dent in the amount of oxygen that will be problematic. From what I remember, the concentration of oxygen required to maintain combustion isn't much lower than the ambient concentration, so ultimately I might have brought the concentration from 20% to 18%, with no actual affect on the rate of oxidation.
Any ideas? I know people make powder filled caps, do you just have to accept the loss in potency and work as fast as possible?
Another idea is to flood the glovebox with another gas from concentrate, such as compressed CO2 or N, forcing the 02 out and then sealing the box. Getting it all out would be nearly impossible so you would probably still be left with at least 10%.
Of course there is the option of also making a vacuum chamber but that would incredibly difficult and expensive and I don't know how well a glovebox would function doubling as a vacuum chamber.
Also I know this has nothing to do with cultivation but I have no idea where to put this so if it needs to be moved feel free.
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impatientguy
Ganjalf a very mighty lab wizard



Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 5,054
Loc: USA
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Re: How to prevent reactions of psychedelic compounds with air in powdered sclerotia [Re: Gloogloos]
#22392345 - 10/17/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Grind them when you want to eat them. Simple.
Powdering them won't hurt them if they are put into tea immediately
Edited by impatientguy (10/17/15 09:07 AM)
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Gloogloos
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Re: How to prevent reactions of psychedelic compounds with air in powdered sclerotia [Re: impatientguy]
#22392368 - 10/17/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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If it wouldn't be an issue in the tea case then it shouldn't be an issue if they are made into caps and then vacuum sealed, as long as it is done in a timely fashion I would imagine.
Also would simply vacuum sealing them fresh and then refrigerating be ideal for storage? I know you can't freeze unless thoroughly dried otherwise they thaw and become mush.
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impatientguy
Ganjalf a very mighty lab wizard



Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 5,054
Loc: USA
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Re: How to prevent reactions of psychedelic compounds with air in powdered sclerotia [Re: Gloogloos]
#22392380 - 10/17/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gloogloos said: If it wouldn't be an issue in the tea case then it shouldn't be an issue if they are made into caps and then vacuum sealed, as long as it is done in a timely fashion I would imagine.
Also would simply vacuum sealing them fresh and then refrigerating be ideal for storage? I know you can't freeze unless thoroughly dried otherwise they thaw and become mush.
I would imagine your right bit why risk the potency during storage. I'd leave them whole and dried. IMHO
Don't try to refrigerator them unless your gunna eat them in a couple weeks lol
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
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Re: How to prevent reactions of psychedelic compounds with air in powdered sclerotia [Re: impatientguy]
#22392487 - 10/17/15 09:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've read about one guy who made C02 by mixing vinegar and baking soda and "pouring" the CO2 into jars of fungi. This would theoretically force all the oxygen out of the jars and prolong shelf life immensely.
make sure you let the chemical reaction finish completely so that you're only pouring CO2 in there..
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micro
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Re: How to prevent reactions of psychedelic compounds with air in powdered sclerotia [Re: Psilosopherr]
#22392651 - 10/17/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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they won't react with oxygen
only issue would be any enzymatic degredation
if it's a dry powder this won't be an issue
-------------------- Any research paper or book for free (Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: How to prevent reactions of psychedelic compounds with air in powdered sclerotia [Re: micro]
#22392667 - 10/17/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
micro said: they won't react with oxygen
only issue would be any enzymatic degredation
if it's a dry powder this won't be an issue
I'll need more than your word if you're going to contradict an established dogma
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How to prevent reactions of psychedelic compounds with air in powdered sclerotia [Re: Psilosopherr]
#22392986 - 10/17/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wouldn't worry about the powder as long as you put it in a suitable container once you make the powder. Oxidation is a kind of reaction. It doesn't imply diatomic oxygen in the air always....
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Gloogloos
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Re: How to prevent reactions of psychedelic compounds with air in powdered sclerotia [Re: bodhisatta]
#22393213 - 10/17/15 01:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah I know that, it is the loss of H and/or the addition of O, reduction is the opposite, but most compounds that contain oxygen are much less likely to react than O2 (at least what you would find in air and in significant amounts), and from what I have read and heard (which could be wrong) when the psychedelic compounds in mushrooms (psilocybin and psilocin) oxidize it is from O2.
If it isnt much of a deal than I am not worried, I was reading threads on it and people were acting like it was such an issue that even minutes as air exposed powder would be oxidized to an almost useless state.
Nothing trying can't tell us.
Thanks for the replies guys.
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