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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: I believe that some of that, if not most, could be better spent elsewhere, or better yet, not spent at all
Okay, if not spent at all, then what is your solution? Give us alternatives.
I think the EPA, like most of govt, is bloated, there is no accountability in how they spend OUR money...
My solution, would be a 10-20% cut to everything... I know, it's too simple and naive, I wouldn't cut the amount food going to school lunch programs, just the administrative costs associated with it...
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 23 minutes, 50 seconds
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: This is what's frustrating with liberals, it's either all or nothing...
I'm not saying I support pollution or that the EPA should be scrapped altogether, I like clean air and water as well, however, when the EPA has an 11 BILLION dollar budget every year, I believe that some of that, if not most, could be better spent elsewhere, or better yet, not spent at all
This poll was an example of your all-or-nothing attitude. The way the questions were worded, you would think that the immediate bottom line was the only pertinent factor.
I don't really think this poll serves any purpose. The answers to these questions are all quite obvious and easy to find if they are not readily apparent.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: I believe that some of that, if not most, could be better spent elsewhere, or better yet, not spent at all
Okay, if not spent at all, then what is your solution? Give us alternatives.
I think the EPA, like most of govt, is bloated, there is no accountability in how they spend OUR money...
My solution, would be a 10-20% cut to everything... I know, it's too simple and naive, I wouldn't cut the amount food going to school lunch programs, just the administrative costs associated with it...
Quote:
ballsalsa said: THE HUGE DROP IN AMERICA'S COMMITMENT
TO A SAFE ENVIRONMENT
75% DROP IN EPA FUNDING IN LAST 3 DECADES http://www.worldfuturefund.org/art2013/environmentalspending.html

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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 23 minutes, 50 seconds
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Isn't that partially due to less cleanup from the 60's and 70's? lol
Like if your yard is trashed, you only have to spend a lot to clean it once, and then a little to maintain it. Maybe a shitty example... but you know what I mean.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
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http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2014-03/documents/fy15_bib.pdf
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The EPA’s FY 2015 Annual Performance Plan budget of $7.89 billion is almost $310 million, or nearly 4%,below the FY 2014 Enacted budget of $8.2 billion .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_States_federal_budget
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Total expenditures $3.90 trillion (requested) $3.685 trillion (preliminary actual)[3]
are we really worried about overspending 7.89 billion on the EPA?
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
are we really worried about overspending 7.89 billion on the EPA?
No, WE are not, and that's the problem, not giving a shit about all these bloated federal agencies because it only this percent of the budget or that percent... It all adds up, why the fuck is the govt spending 4 TRILLION dollars a year? That doesn't even include what the local and state govts are spending...
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,852
Loc: Foreign Lands
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http://universalfreepress.com/laughing-all-the-way-to-the-bankruptcy-obama-epa-criminals-ripping-off-america-living-large/
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Adam Andrzejewski, Open the Books’ founder, said, “Everyone is under the impression that the EPA is spending money to ‘clean the environment.’ But, it turns out EPA is running a $160 million PR Machine, $715 million police agency, a near $1 billion employment agency for seniors, and a $1.2 billion in-house law firm.” Read more at http://universalfreepress.com/laughing-all-the-way-to-the-bankruptcy-obama-epa-criminals-ripping-off-america-living-large/
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an unnamed agency spokesperson is quoted as saying, “Public participation is a key component of EPA’s mission to protect human health and the environment. EPA is legally obligated to communicate the work of our programs with the American public, Congress, stakeholders, and the media—including publicizing public hearings and citizen comment periods. This report cherry picks and falsely misrepresents the work of two administrations whose job it is to ensure people are informed about the critical work of EPA.” Read more at http://universalfreepress.com/laughing-all-the-way-to-the-bankruptcy-obama-epa-criminals-ripping-off-america-living-large/
http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2014-03/documents/fy15_bib.pdf
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Maintaining Core Enforcement Strength In FY 2015, the EPA seeks to maintain the strength of its core national enforcement and compliance assurance program. Our objective is to pursue civil and criminal enforcement that targets the most serious water, air, and chemical hazards in communities; assuring strong, consistent, and effective enforcement of federal environmental laws nationwide. Recognizing the tight fiscal climate at both the federal and state level, EPA will continue to focus federal enforcement on the most important environmental problems where noncompliance is a significant contributing factor and where federal enforcement attention can have a significant impact. EPA’s top enforcement priorities will be pursuing large, complex cases that require significant investment and long term commitment. As an important supplement to a strong enforcement program, EPA is investing in Next Generation Compliance strategies and tools to increase compliance with environmental laws.The EPA has achieved impressive pollution control and health benefits through vigorous compliance monitoring and enforcement, but the sheer number of regulated facilities, the contribution of large numbers of smaller sources of pollution, combined with federal and state budget constraints has made it necessary for the EPA to go beyond the traditional single facility inspection and enforcement approach to ensure widespread compliance. Next Generation Compliance is part of the agency’s E-Enterprise business model and promotes advanced monitoring, electronic reporting and transparency. Next Generation Compliance incorporates multiple components using state-of-the-art monitoring technology to detect pollution problems, leverage electronic reporting, expand transparency, develop and implement innovative enforcement approaches, and structure regulations and permits to be easier to implement
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
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Shorter version "they're wasting money so the public doesn't think they're wasting money"
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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I don't consider the EPA effective but I fail to see how cutting their budget without alternatives in place is helpful either.
We have large polluters literally killing people and walking away with a fine. Not to mention the damage they're doing to local wildlife and the clean air and water they're taking from our children.
I asked what your solution was and you gave the 'government's to big party line'. If you have a proposal make it. Otherwise quit pretending you give a shit about clean air and water while you fatten your wallet off it's destruction.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I don't consider the EPA effective but I fail to see how cutting their budget without alternatives in place is helpful either.
We have large polluters literally killing people and walking away with a fine. Not to mention the damage they're doing to local wildlife and the clean air and water they're taking from our children.
Wow, you don't think the EPA is effective but you wanna keep throwing money at them? That makes about as much sense as most liberal ideas, lol
BP has paid 19 billion dollars in fines for a spill they weren't even responsible for, that's ridiculous
And don't pretend like you give a shit about a few deaths, when liberal Utopias like Detroit and Chicago are plagued by more death and violence that "polluters" could ever cause...
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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I never said we should throw more money at them. But I'm not suggesting we cut their budget without other systems in place either.
And you've yet to make a single proposal because you don't give a fuck.
Just admit it.
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: because overtime we spill a few barrels of oil, liberals go batshit crazy...
Yeah, a few fucking barrels. Like in your beloved, North Dakota?
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/11/23/us/north-dakota-spill-database.html
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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We need to go in and ruthlessly trim back most govt programs and eliminate some altogether. Yes, we need something like the epa but they can do a better job on less than half the money they are spending every year. Same with many other agencies.
We also have to stop politicizing the agencies. Obumble just appointed a long time Monsanto man in charge of the fda. What an atrocity! No doubt obumble will pick up huge speaking fees from Monsanto after he is out of office.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: We need to go in and ruthlessly trim back most govt programs and eliminate some altogether. Yes, we need something like the epa but they can do a better job on less than half the money they are spending every year. Same with many other agencies.
We also have to stop politicizing the agencies. Obumble just appointed a long time Monsanto man in charge of the fda. What an atrocity! No doubt obumble will pick up huge speaking fees from Monsanto after he is out of office.
No no no! We can't do that, America would absolutely fall apart if we didn't have the Feds up our ass 24/7,
Quote:
Yeah, a few fucking barrels. Like in your beloved, North Dakota?
Yup, they spilled a few barrels and have you seen it lately? It's a desolate barren wasteland, no trees, no animals, just dry desert dirt, covered in that dirty oil! It's a travesty, and even with an EPA with a budget of 11 billion/year, I say we double their budget!
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Maybe they should try to cut from the 2 largest parts of the budget, Medicare and Defense.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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I agree that the EPA wastes money and doesn't do a good job protecting the environment. Let's figure out how to fix both of those things.
Once we do we can see if we can trim the budget.
As a side note Obama's FCC appointment pissed me off too. But you don't believe in cable monopolies
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,337
Last seen: 23 minutes, 50 seconds
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I agree that the EPA wastes money and doesn't do a good job protecting the environment. Let's figure out how to fix both of those things.
Once we do we can see if we can trim the budget.
As a side note Obama's FCC appointment pissed me off too. But you don't believe in cable monopolies 
Who did he appoint to the FCC? A Comcast guy? A Net Neutrality buster? lol
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I agree that the EPA wastes money and doesn't do a good job protecting the environment. Let's figure out how to fix both of those things.
Once we do we can see if we can trim the budget.
As a side note Obama's FCC appointment pissed me off too.
I like it when you guys start making sense. Govt bureaucracy and general incompetence has to improve greatly. For that do we want another career politician or do we want someone who knows how to run a tight ship?
The fcc thing is a total sell out. He probably settled cheap, a mill or two at the most and it will cost the nation billions in health costs and loss of productivity, etc. The pol gets a mill, the company makes a few hundred extra mill, and we get stuck with the end cost of billions or death.
Quote:
But you don't believe in cable monopolies 
You were doing really well up to that point. I have no idea what you are talking about now. If you are going to side track at least give some background to refresh those who don't care anyway.
But yeah, the solution is a lean, trim, efficient govt. One that has real checks and balances and can't be easily corrupted by politicians. Stopping graft would be an excellent place to start. Stop all legal payola to politicians. That too is a side issue but very important.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,342
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 5 hours, 18 minutes
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Re: Poll: Economics [Re: qman]
#22414339 - 10/21/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
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qman said: "Free trade leads to unemployment"
Who disagrees with that? It costs US jobs and gives employment to people in other countries. It leads to unemployment in the US, that's a fact. BTW, we don't even practice "free trade" today.
That would be me. We are an exportating country and free trade opens up markets to increase our exportations which leads to job growth.
Different conjecture.
The US is the largest exporter in the world, yet it doesn't improve our job market. Again, there's nothing equal about the trade agreements, China and others still have tariffs on imports while the US is just one big open market, that's not good for US workers.
I don't even know if they count selling I-Phones (made in China and Indonesia) to the rest of the world as an US export, my guess is they do, talk about BS.
China is the largest exporter in the world, during the last 5 years.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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