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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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A lot of questions needing answers ASAP
#22387107 - 10/16/15 05:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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1.)When doing G2G transfer from small bags to large in a SAB what is the best method? Is there a tek for this? I was thinking of cutting a hole in the bottom corner of the colonized bag and dumping the grain into the larger bags through these holes. Anyone have success doing this ?
2.)After pasteurizing large bags for G2G do I just open them in the SAB and dump colonized grain in? Seems really risky! Is there a best practice when doing this without a HEPA.
3.)I see some people boiling there rye before PC and some people who do not. Is there a definitive answer as to which method is best yet? I have bags, rye and tyvek sleeves and am making my first bags tomorrow.
Thanks in advance!
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DrCrumbs
Alpha Blue


Registered: 10/25/11
Posts: 1,619
Loc: Gili Trawangan
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: coirlover]
#22387128 - 10/16/15 06:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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1. I wouldnt just because the outside of the bag isn't sterile anymore like the inside. I cut the top of the bag and fold the bag down so only the inside is exposed and use a sterile spoon/fork to transfer with. (kind of like if you folded a sock you were wearing down, if this makes sense).
2. I assume you mean sterilize. Yeah basically, but pay attention to what surfaces you are touching with what tools. You dont want to touch non sterile surfaces with your sterilized stuff.
3. I've tried a whole bunch of different things, lots of stuff works. You just want plump, non busted, and minimal moister in the jars when your done.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: DrCrumbs]
#22387232 - 10/16/15 07:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Follow directions and don't rely on your assumptions and hunches.
If the TEK leaves you with too many questions you're probably reading a shit TEK wrote by a kid 15 years ago
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 12 hours
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: bodhisatta]
#22387556 - 10/16/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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1.G2G from bag to bag is actually pretty tricky, especially in a still air box. Bags are tricky enough in SAB as it is. Definitely do-able, I don't think I would be able to pull that off though 
Do not cut a hole in the bag. You want to pour from one bag into the receiving bag.
2. I think you are confused about what G2G is. Grain to grain transfer colonized (jar, bag) grain from one sterile container into another sterile container of sterilized grain, to colonize the receiving container of grain. G2G is simply a way of expanding your grain spawn.
You would never pasturize grain, only sterilize it. You pasturize bulk substrates (coir, poo, straw etc). You mix colonized grain spawn with pasteurized substrate. This is usually done in open air.
If you use good sterile technique G2G is perfectly do able in still air box, although trickier with spawn bags than jars.
3. Almost all rye preps require a simmer. I rinse my grains, soak overnight, then hard boil for 10 min. I then strain and shake every once in a while to steam dry the grains.
Most people don't G2G spawn bag to spawn bag. Id s ugguest you inoculate jars first as masters and use those colonized jars to inoculate your spawn bags.
I go agar to quart jar, to 4 quart spawn bag for a total of 5quarts spawn.
Do you use agar? You will want to clean up your culture first before putting to grain dude
Send me a message if you would like some guidance
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: mushpunx]
#22387622 - 10/16/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I meant to say sterilized bags... I have 12 colonized 1# bags GT, I am transferring to 24 4.5 qt bags. Just really concerned with opening bags inside SAB. Should you really use a spoon? I thought I read this was a really bad idea
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 12 hours
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: coirlover]
#22387787 - 10/16/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
coirlover said: I meant to say sterilized bags... I have 12 colonized 1# bags GT, I am transfegoing to 24 4.5 qt bags. Just really concerned with opening bags inside SAB. Should you really use a spoon? I thought I read this was a really bad idea
Absolutely no spoon man! You shouldn't be concerned opening the bags in SAB. The air inside is not sterile, the idea is to keep it as still as possible to not let contams land in your work.
For G2G you have to be very smooth, quick but decisive and careful. Like I said its MUCH easier to go jar to bag than bag to bag.
You need to prep your SAB with spritzing the walls with soapy water. Wipe down the bags with ISO very well before going into SAB.
Gloves, clean tyvek sleeves, clean clothes face mask all that good stuff. Wipe gloves down with ISO frequently.
The idea is simple, pour from one bag into the next. But unless you have a very tall SAB this is easier said than done in still air box. You don't want to stir the air up, don't ever move anything over top an open bag, don't let your fingers slip into the top of the bag. Open the reciving bag, open the master bag, pour the master into receiver without letting the bags touch or moving any fingers or bag over top of the open bags. Try to keep the air still. Like I said very tricky in small SAB
In a still air box you have the disadvantage of not being able to give a proper plenum in spawn bags like you would w a flow hood. But once the receiving bag is set twist the top up and zip tie or seal.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: mushpunx]
#22387906 - 10/16/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm all about still air boxes but if you're doing bag2bag you need a hood. Good luck even in an awesome SAB
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 12 hours
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: bodhisatta]
#22389071 - 10/16/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said I'm all about still air boxes but if you're doing bag2bag yo. need a hood. Good luck even in an awesome SAB
That's what Im saying man. I dont think I could pull it off yet
G2G takes practice, bags take a lot of practice. I kinda think if OP already has a bunch of smaller bags knocked up maybe should spawn a bunch of trays or mino monos with those.
Use quarts or pints (even easier to work with) as masters. Use the large spawn bags as receivers if you wanna learn on those but expect some goof ups at first
Check out RR letsgrowmushrooms. Has a Great visual on G2G, he explains sterile tek very well too.
Also has a great section on spawn bag prep, and section on innoculating spawn bags via G2G, I think its the sawdust chapters.
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: coirlover]
#22605114 - 12/02/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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G2G bag to bag... results are in.....


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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: coirlover]
#22605126 - 12/02/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd toss em.
...in gel caps and give to friends for Christmas. 
Nice work.
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: Adden]
#22605145 - 12/02/15 05:12 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah, bachelor party is a few months away... Going to be a party!!! How do you dry this many?I am a little worried about them going bad. I only have 2 dehydrators. Right now I just have fans blowing on them until the rest are dry, will they be okay?
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: coirlover]
#22605166 - 12/02/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would 24h fan dry and wait for them to shrink, then throw them in the dehydrator.
You can split big caps from the center of the cap to one side. They tend to dry faster this way. I've seen some that have had to been quartered to have any shot at drying before they rot.
I've found that a 50/50 split in the trays works better. Bigger caps towards the center separated by stems then going down in size as they move toward the outside had always cracker-dried mine at 100F in 6-10 hours after fan drying.
They will shrink more than you think, as some say.
..you can't buy more racks for the dehydrator?
Edited by Adden (12/02/15 05:20 PM)
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk



Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 12 hours
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: Adden]
#22605178 - 12/02/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nice tub man!!
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Sarah Tonin
Gardener Gone Astray



Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 4,396
Loc: out rageous
Last seen: 29 days, 14 hours
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: mushpunx]
#22605200 - 12/02/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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You got them out of that tub and spread them out?
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: Sarah Tonin]
#22605244 - 12/02/15 05:32 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sarah Tonin said:
You got them out of that tub and spread them out?
Yes, I got them on every shelf I can find with fans blowing on the ones that are not in the dehydrator.
Guess on dry weight?
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coirlover
old timer



Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 4 days
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Re: A lot of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: Adden]
#22605256 - 12/02/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dys said: I would 24h fan dry and wait for them to shrink, then throw them in the dehydrator.
You can split big caps from the center of the cap to one side. They tend to dry faster this way. I've seen some that have had to been quartered to have any shot at drying before they rot.
I've found that a 50/50 split in the trays works better. Bigger caps towards the center separated by stems then going down in size as they move toward the outside had always cracker-dried mine at 100F in 6-10 hours after fan drying.
They will shrink more than you think, as some say.
..you can't buy more racks for the dehydrator?
Im sure I can online but that doesn't help much now....
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Sarah Tonin
Gardener Gone Astray



Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 4,396
Loc: out rageous
Last seen: 29 days, 14 hours
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Re: A of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: coirlover]
#22605299 - 12/02/15 05:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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approximately 1/10th of the wet weight is the standard rule... nice work. I like Dys's method of fan drying and finishing in the dehydrator. Much better use of the limited dehydrator space too but they turn out prettier as well.
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: A of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: Sarah Tonin]
#22605329 - 12/02/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've been traveling and collecting specimens. Managed to lay a thick paper bag over a chair in the hotel room I was staying in. Carefully used a lighter to see where the hot air would fall, turn back on itself and take off. Dried faster than anything I've ever seen in my life.
Here in the PNW you see a lot of ceiling fans in closets or laundry rooms with a heat light/fan assembly that sucks everything up and out. Great kind of deal if you can manage that, and they usually have shelves in those little rooms.
I've had specimens dry to near cracker incredibly quickly and only needing 2 hours in the dehydrator.
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Sarah Tonin
Gardener Gone Astray



Registered: 04/01/14
Posts: 4,396
Loc: out rageous
Last seen: 29 days, 14 hours
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Re: A of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: Adden]
#22605379 - 12/02/15 05:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dys said: Carefully used a lighter to see where the hot air would fall, turn back on itself and take off.
how do you do that?
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc:
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Re: A of questions needing answers ASAP [Re: Sarah Tonin]
#22605421 - 12/02/15 06:06 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just move a light flame around and watch the way it blows. Start where you'd place your fruits, move it horizontally and vertically. When you find the right distance you have a convective heat transfer diffusing water molecules away from the fruit bodies and kicking it away. Sort of kinda like oven drying, just jerry rigged.
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