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Offlinetopdog82
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Are psychedelics really that powerful?
    #22381155 - 10/14/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I can speak from experience and say that the first 5 times I took a psychedelic, my experience was changed in ways that nothing else could have. That being said, I go to college at a private university, and I get the vibe that noone really gives a fuck

Most times that psychelics are brought up, they are just seen as almost some cheap intense high. Rarely is it "that shit changed my life". It is more like "I laughed and acted like an idiot that was fun but I dont care for it or like it and I wouldn't do it again"

This is generally the type of response that I got. And the reason I conclude that psychedelics aren't really that powerful, is that I feel that a majority of people on this forum already had a background/interest in spirituality/philosophy considerably before taking psychedelics

IMO; It takes a certain type of person to seek out psychedelics and do them time and time again and appreaciate them. I dont think "everyone" has life changing insights about the human mind on psychedelics


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: topdog82]
    #22381793 - 10/15/15 02:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Terrence Mckenna disrupted my natural concept of tripping for tripping sake, it was often no good, almost better before I heard his genius ramblings, but sometimes it was good. What I discovered is that when lower dose trips lose their magic a heroic dose brings the magic of low dose trips back. The heroic dose is often completely unpleasant and boring, though it can be something else. I believe there is potential for psychedelics to be very powerful through science for mental health and for science. Just a matter of time until the power/knowledge is allowed to manifest and be utilized. Mass migration of feral Muslims is the biggest threat to unlocking the potential. Sharia Law would eliminate all memory/knowledge of psychedelics. For certain psychedelics never cured me of anything, philosophies and ideas about my experience here and now really have helped though. As in MGTOW.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: topdog82]
    #22382022 - 10/15/15 05:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I feel that it has to do with the way the individual sees the potential of certain goals or destinations and the way in which one proceeds to 'track down' those pursuits with these tools.

It can be completely recreational for some but others have the goal set out as a possibility first to experience the mystical life changing states of those experiences.


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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #22382283 - 10/15/15 07:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, they're as powerful as we make them.


Edited by Hobozen (10/15/15 07:42 AM)


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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: Hobozen]
    #22382517 - 10/15/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yes; what was also good for me was studying up about them beforehand; shrooms I took with friends before studying or anything, but I read up on erowid before doing any of the others really; at least a bit, and ready the Joyous Cosmology by Watts before LSD, etc. . hehe. . it's also kind of like our culture has left bread crumbs or clues..  The Doors, named after Blake's poem, 'When the doors of perception are cleansed, all will appear to [humanity] as it is, infinite,' etc., and Huxley's book The Doors of Perception by the same reference. . one i have only skimmed, no need or interest so far. :sun:

give me better ones :sun: hehe

relating to Watts, for instance. . . yesterday I had a rather profound realization about the whole thing.  i truly believe this is spot on.  Watts classifies these as medicines for the mind, in his work, primarily the three psilocybin, mescaline and LSD, and gives qualifiers such as, when it's done on spiritual discovery and so forth. . .

well, he gives those qualifiers but i realized something else: something he didn't quite put in words there.

like you mention, those who had a spiritual background, interest in the mystic traditions, earth-mystics, and well - spiritual inquiry in general... well here's what i realized yesterday:  something i already knew and basically understood but it became a little clearer how to put it.

i already knew that some spiritual practice, discovery, work and worship etc., -'work and worship are necessary to remove the veil,'  vivekananda, -  and, when i was on a trip and around that time - i knew that if someone was happy and peaceful, it would almost be impossible for them to have a bad trip -- if they've worked out their good or bad feelings etc. . .

so i already knew it but i put it into better words:  they are medicines but the beautiful thing is -

once someone gets to where the're already happy, peaceful - you know, which does require a fair amount of self-reflection, peacefulness, etc. . .

so in other words -- completely well -- then to experience these -- that is where the medicinal part comes in. . .

because then you see -- aha! wonderful and beautiful life i have lived so far -- I had no idea!!!

hehe, then you see the medicine of spirit. . . higher / deeper realities -- waking up from the dream, which is quite beautiful.

for many people it is not easy to make that shift, and -- then there's the question of integrating such experiences.

as we all mostly know, lots of mystics describe all kinds of things like this -- and. . . probably one's karma is what brings one to good ones or rascals. :sun: 

'coz there are a few rascals out there. . . etc.  but like i say, they are not at all the norm. :sun:

so - round'a'bout way of getting to my point, but that's something i realized yesterday, seemed rather profound-- hehe which may seem silly as it's something i already talked about and knew -- get healthy first, an important thing. . i mean mentally :sun:  and emotionally, which is also spiritually and physically - they're all so linked :sun:

but ya - i thought a good clarification of the medicinal aspect of these.  this view, clarification for the medicine; having some good idea of the spiritual realms, from hinduism or buddhism or whichever floats your fancy - and seems most worthwhile - amen, that is the main thing - to follow one's heart, etc.. . and choose the best by one's own heart and belief. :sun:

then perfect health is easy.

another thing --- in reply to OP; mentioning, about the whole thing -- respect for sacred cultures probably makes a significant difference. . . when i was a kid, i went to a few pow-wows, and had such awe and reverence, and love for them...  so beautiful and wonderful; tho i have, over the years, certainly focused on other things to the exclusion of all else -- when i was learning a skill, studying chess or music or something - but these were nice to come back to over the years, when i had much stillness, to remember them. . . ' how's it feel when there's time to remember - branches bare like the trees in November, ' oldfield. . . sort of like a nice bedrock foundation :sun: :smile: and later on, sweat lodge with my best friend.. . love those.

which may seem random or what not, but i mention it (thought of putting it earlier, but ya).. those and others - so blessed are we, to have authentic and genuine continuation of a people, earth-based, sacred path and shamanic path, who follow earth-mother, and have genuine knowledge of the sacred. not just one, but many, as there are many tribes which are flourishing, now, that people have woken up and are much more kind and loving towards one another, in the overall schemata.

they are just one, and they're one that are warm-h'arted, kind, open and so forth -- and i am talking about mostly the ones i have had contact with - not necessarily having to do with anything entheogen related - simply the culture in general, which is warm, loving and kind; welcoming, to share their celebration and love of earth-mother, spiritual wisdom, simple gladness and happiness and peace, and any of the good life; it is interesting how such bonds have healed; they are also known as being very reserved at times, which is only natural - the point is they are sacred human beings as are all others, living in harmony with earth mother is what brings about our connection to her; love shown by actions as well as words.  ( which of course, am not meaning to say either one is more substantial. :sun: )

in general, or in more broad view - by entering the sacred, one may get glimpses of realms of a lot of goodness - as i mentioned, integrating these requires a lot of devotion to such an ideal - whatever one's ideal is. .. as it is my wish to help.  the goodness requires sensitivity - and, doing no harm is often, if not almost always, of more primacy than an attempt to good - just a rather universal rule, it seems to be. . . to be a healer is a sacred calling and one should not take it lightly -- and, devote all one's love and healing to one's own form, first, because the primary thing is -- wherever your heart is at, that's how one will affect people, etc...  one really must have a broad view, and be quite sure -- and, also, any barriers or divisions we set up - as f. herbert mentioned briefly - these create the conditions generally, for misunderstanding and so forth, and what not..  his words a little more eloquent on that particular topic.  although he did not quite reach the depths of healing love. :sun: he was very very good however :smile: hehe.

meant to say - on the broader view, in reply to your friends, etc., one reason many stages of the path are solitary is, it's not so easy to climb to the peak of a mountain if one is required to pull another up, each step of the way. . . the Zen saying is ' Go up on the mountain, and then come back down. '

the same value of solitude, is seen in every tradition - Rumi, ' for a while we lived with people, but saw
no sign of the faithfulness in them we wanted;
it's better to hide completely within -
as water hides in metal, as fire hides in a rock.'

or goethe - ' it is, after all, the greatest art to isolate and limit oneself '

yet we are social beings, so we do peace and healing work wherever possible.  vimalakirti nirdesa sutra, a buddhist sutra (tr.  by Charles Luk a very nice one )  talks about how path to Nirvana -the Bodhisattvas can attain it - but out of love and kindness for all living beings, come back to the world to save other living beings.

stillness, is particular - of vast and great value. . it's called one of the three gates to nirvana - specifically, non-action or wu-wei.  this is what i noticed in my own trip as well - if i moved, the experience would abate, completely, when i remained still - then absorption increased until the first instant of non-duality, upon which i instantly knew, infinite peace, and that there was never any reason to worry, fear or doubt; no matter what may happen, in a million years.  yet that was only the first instant; beginning of a 6-hour, beautiful trip, through boundlessness, bliss and peace, culminating in a vision of the infinite, a lotus flower, within which were boundless budhdas, within each of which were boundless white lotuses -- boundless pure lands -- and staring into the white lotus, i realized at that moment, that it was my own inner most h'art, that it was my very self.

then i gently floated back 

yep - this is a personal experience and to share it with others - is often best done with simple kindness; and as i've mentioned, it's like an anchor for the rest of life -- and many years spent in integrating such experiences, exploring the sacred love of earth mother further - and our connection, and so forth;  to explain this type of thing to any one person - is very possible, especially if there's love, friendship and trust between the two people -- especially when it is based in goodness; and perhaps a shared connection to a certain ideal; hopefully a good one :sun: hehe

even with friends - often. . . however the thing is - if one writes a book or something, like Watts' book on the Joyous Cosmology, or McKenna, etc.- - then that can last a long time, and reach a lot of people. . . or share beauty in poetry, music or art. . . these are often there.. and a person's h'art, soul and goodness often goes into their art -- and we can appreciate it. .

one thing i've always pretty much known but later learned more about is - we can experience things of art most especially when - we've already experienced something similar. . . a similar depth of beauty and love ourselves. .. then it's almost quite clear.  i noticed this especially with Rilke, translated by MacIntyre. . . recently - Orpheus Sonnets; i had glanced at the book a couple times and appreciated it some -- it wasn't until i spent a month in the forest, very beautifully -- 'learn to wait, and while you're waiting learn to concentrate ' - Moondog. -- that when i came back to rilke's book, it spoke to my soul. . .so beautifully.  so wonderfully.  it also makes all the difference in the world who the translator is.

so by putting it into art and beauty, one can present it to the entire world, and so forth - and shine some light - for it is certainly light which is very good.  this is a good way to share the path to earth mother, to the sacred. . . as i mentioned - the first instant of my own experience -- when i saw that infinite peace for the first time -- i mention these are good as medicines, after someone has already reached a very happy and peaceful place -- then one can see, ah, reality :sun: hehe. . since i was very young, 3 even or so, i never lost. . . i always know that all was light, and would often share this with people -- not only that it is light, but the reason that is important.  the reason it is important is -- one may never harm a photon. . . i found it's lovely to ask this -- can you ever harm a photon?. ..  no, not really :sun: with warmth, depth, love, beauty and a relaxed joyfulness. . . one cannot harm a photon, no matter what one tries -- and so forth. 

namaste,
and peace.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22382528 - 10/15/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

all of nature is so beautiful



--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22382797 - 10/15/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Both those posts are awesome, great response!

I guess you summarized what I was trying to say but struggled to find the words to say. +5 for you. I really enjoy your posts and posting style

Also; I feel that the intergration part is the trickiest. I tripped a shitton and I felt that I kept having more an more insights. I wrote a number of them down. And at the time it just seemed like I was adding to more confusion. I felt more and more frustrated as I was not getting answers. I guess a lot of people fall into the trap that having a lot to say or giving complex answers to life's questions makes you more correct. And I fell into this trap with psychedelics. So many insights that were so hard to intergrate. and such complex answers to such simple questions. Eventually, I came to read into buddhism/hinduism and meditation/yoga. This made things very easy to intergrate. I am not sure it is for everyone though

A lot of people fall into that same trap. I feel that the true nature of wisdom is emptiness, and that was an incredibly profound realization that helped me intergrate the psychedelic insights


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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: topdog82]
    #22383941 - 10/15/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yes! :sun:

There is a very real thing you brought up -- simplicity or complexity. ..  i have considered this all my life and kept leaning toward the view that simple is usually if not always better. . .

'The Four Faults of Natural Awareness' express it nice-ly


' So close you can't see it

So deep you can't fathom it

So simple you can't believe it

So good you can't accept it'


so then comes the question -- what is it?  hehe, the eternal question. . . beautiful.


indeed -- the wisdom is, from a lot of traditions -- be at peace; all is well -- and this is the way to peace as well. . .


the solution is partly that there is no problem -- to quote Watts again from the Joyous Cosmology -


'There is no problem now, but who would believe it?'


also some of the most beautiful descriptions are so simple --


like this from Han San --


'Time is one wing of a gnat.
Space is the other.
The Universe is the hair of a horse.'


thank you for such kindness -- same always from me. 


very good to meet you, dear friend.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: once in a lifetime] * 1
    #22383967 - 10/15/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

First handful of time i did shrooms, they were strictly a party drug and it was crazy fun. I was probably just like one of those kids @ ur college. They were fun but nothing super special.

Then I tripped by myself on a beautiful fall day when I was feeling antisocial and slightly depressed about life in general and it changed my life in a flash. My experience from that point on with mushrooms has become much much more internal and spiritual/metaphysical.

Mushrooms are a tool, use em for what ya want, but only a few ways unlock their full potential.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: nuentoter]
    #22383989 - 10/15/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

beautiful -- expressed extremely excellently. . .


nuentoter, 

may i ask what your name signifies?  it's quite beyond me. 


only if you feel like it. 


so much love and happiness, to everyone, to shroomery and to everyone. :sun: :earth: :heart:


:earth:


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #22388244 - 10/16/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Neuntöter is the german name for the red backed shrike, a bird in the strangler family.

I later found out its also a name for a type of germanic vampire that brings plague and pestilence.


--------------------

The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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Re: Are psychedelics really that powerful? [Re: nuentoter]
    #22388958 - 10/16/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Beautiful.

Peace and love --

J.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide


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