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Offlinejust_curious
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Some questions for the experts!?
    #22380830 - 10/14/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm about to start my first grow. Plan on doing a bulk monotub (or 2?). Here's my questions.

Should I use BRF and Verm, or WBS and Verm?

Is it the same preparation for both?

If I don't have a pressure cooker, will boiling for 90 minutes be fine?

To shake or not to shake for either of them after inoculating?

For the bulk substrate, should I use 50/50 coir and Verm, or pasteurized manure?

Do I have to boil the 50/50 mix?

If I do the bulk substrate, is it okay to crumble the cakes and mix them in the bulk?

Do I dunk the cakes at all before crumbling or add water to the 50/50 or manure or is moisture from the boil enough?

Do I put a casing layer of Verm on the bulk after its mixed?

During this time, I just cover it until the mycelium takes over the bulk right, no holes?

Mycelium is done growing, now I can add holes to the tub. Do I do a couple holes every 2-4 inches, or just shotgun?

Should all this be split between more than 1 tub in the event of contamn? Like if I make 10 cakes, should I spread that across 2-3 bulk monotubs?

I know, lots of questions, but also a lot of opinions. I want to do this right! First grow and I hate failure lol


Edited by just_curious (10/14/15 09:36 PM)


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22380837 - 10/14/15 09:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlinejust_curious
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22381019 - 10/14/15 09:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Hey! Glad to see you contributing so much to a fellow shroomery member. Maybe someday you'll need advice and somebody will troll you. Yes, I am aware of a lot of teks, I have studied the shit out of them. What I am asking is, what has worked the best for people. Also, a lot of these teks are old and cultivation an short cuts have come a long way. I understand to follow to the T. Some people say just go with cakes, other people are against one thing and for another. I've also read some people using perlite for cakes in a sgfc, but not for bulk grow. I've seen some people say to use other methods other then crumbling. I'd rather ask questions now and be good to go then to waste time and money. Sorry if you're unable to provide any insight because trolling seemed more important to you. It's okay, I have faith that some legitimate good shroomery members with a passion for mycology and want to see other people succeed as well, will hop on and give me some advice.

Maybe I'm taking your post as an insult when it wasn't meant to be, but at first glance, and second, it definitely appears that way


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22381049 - 10/14/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm sayin that your questions are all over the place...the best advice I can give you in response to that is pick a tek, and follow it...you got bits and pieces of at least 6 teks in your questions... and if you were to pick one and follow directions you would succeed... if I went down the list and answered your questions 1 by 1 you would be in the same position you are in now... don't mean to come off rude, but my suggestion still stands as the best response to your list... do PF tek.


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Offlinejust_curious
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22381071 - 10/14/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That's the one that I planned on following, but for the bulk, I've gotten mixed responses on whether to use 50/50 or manure, and some people told me that crumbling the cakes is bad and to use a cheese grater.


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22381086 - 10/14/15 09:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

A cheese grater is the most efficient way of "crumbling" cakes imo...and CVG (coir/verm/gypsum) is a great substrate to spawn to, especially for your first grow because you don't have to pasteurize and it's naturally pretty contam resistant.


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Offlinejust_curious
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22381098 - 10/14/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I've read different things on that too. That you don't have to pasteurize it, and that I need to mix in a bucket and dump hot water over it. Any opinions on that?


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22381117 - 10/14/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

just_curious said:
That's the one that I planned on following, but for the bulk, I've gotten mixed responses on whether to use 50/50 or manure, and some people told me that crumbling the cakes is bad and to use a cheese grater.



Hold a moment while I pray.

Okay.

Now then, what do you mean when you say "50/50 or manure"?  Would you mind explaining, what is 50/50?  We're talking about the casing mixture?

A cheese grater is fine for the cakes, however you can crumble them is fine, but you want them in very tiny pieces.


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22381128 - 10/14/15 10:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's not necessary...that being said, when I hydrate my coir I do put it in a bucket with my verm and gypsum and dump boiling water over all of it to hydrate...which in turn ends up pasteurizing it anyways...2 birds with one stone type... if you search bucket tek you'll find it... I'll dig some links up for you when I get home if you can't find them...


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22381140 - 10/14/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LocN9ne said:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22144051
Check that out.



Yeah I wrote that, and if you followed it you wouldn't have problems. Hint: CLICK THE PICS.

Step 1: Use The Search Function (UTSF)
   

Doing so you'll find up to date info from TC's. Pretty much all saying the same thing....


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Edited by Mad Season (10/14/15 10:09 PM)


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22381146 - 10/14/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22381160 - 10/14/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Quote:

just_curious said:
That's the one that I planned on following, but for the bulk, I've gotten mixed responses on whether to use 50/50 or manure, and some people told me that crumbling the cakes is bad and to use a cheese grater.



Hold a moment while I pray.

Okay.

Now then, what do you mean when you say "50/50 or manure"?  Would you mind explaining, what is 50/50?  We're talking about the casing mixture?

Sorry, damian50/50's coir tek. I can see how that's confusing. And no, not for the casing layer, for the bulk substrate


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Offlinejust_curious
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22381305 - 10/14/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:

I'll give out the same gems I always do since those don't just jump out of the search results when you don't know what to look for but the rest is pretty easy to find.




Hey man, I appreciate it. That's what I'm talking about!


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22381406 - 10/14/15 11:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So you mean.. damion5050's coir tek?

This one?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595/fpart/1/vc/1

50/50 is a casing tek, been trying to figure out how this is happening for months.

I swear I'm gonna make a mod/admin change damion's name.


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22381539 - 10/15/15 12:11 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Get a pressure cooker and make an inexpensive SAB. Boiling for 90 minutes isn't going to do the same thing as boiling under pressure for 90 minutes. Much higher temps are required than with a PC under pressure to eliminate most contaminants.

Consider learning how to work with agar or at least start reading about its place in cultivation.

If you are going to invest your time, save a little money and invest the little extra it takes to do it right. Nothing like spending a whole lot of time doing something half ass resulting in suboptimal results.

Other than that, if you pick a Tek and roll with it you'll do fine.


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Edited by Kalistis (10/15/15 12:14 AM)


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Kalistis]
    #22381541 - 10/15/15 12:11 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, and welcome. :cool:


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Offlinejust_curious
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22382580 - 10/15/15 09:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
So you mean.. damion5050's coir tek?

This one?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595/fpart/1/vc/1

50/50 is a casing tek, been trying to figure out how this is happening for months.

I swear I'm gonna make a mod/admin change damion's name.




That's a casing tek? It doesn't appear that way to me. It looks like he uses like 3/4 of it for the bulk substrate and then the rest for a casing layer. Am I reading this wrong?


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22382686 - 10/15/15 10:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:facepalm:


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Yerow]
    #22383383 - 10/15/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It is. It says to mix the Verm an coir into a bucket, add boiling water, let cool, add to monotub (leave leave a little in the bucket to add on top)( I would consider this a casing layer?)add spawn to the monotub/mixture (I would consider this the bulk substrate?) mix well, then add the remaining coir on top of the mixture. I understand it fully, maybe I'm just getting the terminology wrong, but I would consider anything I'm putting on top of the spawn/coir mixture a casing layer?


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22383412 - 10/15/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

no. its not. thats just a layer without grain to keep a layer of pasturized, contam resistant bulk sub on top. also its a gauge of colonization. once the top (which has no spawn points) is colonized, the whole sub is. with proper spawn ratios and substrate distribution/evening, of course.

a casing is added AFTER full colonization.


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Edited by aerow.thefox (10/15/15 01:14 PM)


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: aerow.thefox]
    #22383775 - 10/15/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, because at the start of this I was saying that Damian50/50's coir tek was for substrate but somebody up top was saying that's a casing tek. But I read it as a bulk substrate. I understand to put a casing layer of dry Verm in my mason jars on top of my BRF/Verm then to PC. I thought I was in decent understanding until somebody said damian50/50's tek is a casing tek. So, is it a casing tek, or a substrate mixture? I understand it as just another substrate substitution instead of manure.


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22383863 - 10/15/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Damion50/50 is not his name.  His name is damion5050.  I'm telling you that there is a 50/50 casing tek, with a slash.  Damion5050 doesn't use 50/50 of anything just because his name is damion5050.  It's still a whole brick of coir and 2 quarts of verm to 5 jars of spawn which is nowhere near 50/50 of anything, not like the 50/50+ casing tek that is VERY easily confused when people call damion5050 damion 50/50.

Do you understand the difficulty I'm having?

Yes, his tek is for a bulk substrate, you have that correct.  It's just not 50/50 of anything and when you say 50/50, that implies a 1:1 ratio of something.

edit:
Go here, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/search.php ; type 50/50, specify mush cultivation only,  hit enter, take note of the results.


Edited by Inocuole (10/15/15 03:36 PM)


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Offlinejust_curious
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22384506 - 10/15/15 05:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The bulk substrate is the one I'm talking about and got confused when somebody said its casing. Now that that is said and I'm actually not pulling from a bunch of teks like another user stated, should I use BRF or WBS for the mason jars, and manure or the coir tek for the bulk. I guess that's the main question I was trying to ask. I just put it in a lot more words for more accuracy in answers from ya'll


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22384533 - 10/15/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If you want to go bulk you should be doing grain.  Leave the BRF for cakes.


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22384618 - 10/15/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Okay. I will give that a shot. NOW I'm going to ask a dumb question. I know a lot have appeared that way but I think I've been miscommunicating my thoughts lol. You say to use grain for bulk, are you talking about for the original inoculation jars, or the actual bulk substrate. I can't claim to have researched this method because I don't believe I have. But, because you said don't use BRF, I'm assuming you me grain the jars. Is that rye grain? And then what would be the bulk substrate? Anybody got a tek link?


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22384635 - 10/15/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

just_curious said:
Is that rye grain? And then what would be the bulk substrate? Anybody got a tek link?





Quote:

Inocuole said:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19792837
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19140341#19140341
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595/fpart/1/vc/1





Between the first and fourth link I gave you yesterday, and especially considering the second one, I don't understand why you're confused.


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22384683 - 10/15/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Okay cool. Well I looked at the ones that I was most interested in doing and already had the framework in my mind from other teks I've read, but if you guys think that grain will be the best bet for bulk then I will go with that! I hope it turns out good. I'm going to keep a grow log and document everything so the next guy that has questions like mine, I can hopefully pay it forward and hopefully help out a fellow shroomery member :smile:


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22384689 - 10/15/15 05:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You should be interested in doing them all.  There's something of value to take from every link posted in here.  Don't just look at the agar one and go "Oh that's cool I'll check that out later".  I'd have posted them later if you needed to see them later than right now.  I'm telling you this stuff at the stage I wish I had taken up the stuff I'm suggesting now.  If I could go back and do it myself I would.

Human evolution continues by picking up where those before us left off, no use spending tons of time making all the same mistakes.


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22384847 - 10/15/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Hell yeah man! I'll read them all right now. I just didn't want to cram a bunch of stuff to confuse me on the path I wanted to take, but I'll take your word for it man. Thanks for all your help, that's what a good fellow shroomery member does. Assist fellow shroomery members in the name of everything mycology and mushies:mushroom2:


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22384895 - 10/15/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well they're not different means to the same end, it's a matter of doing everything at the same time, in the correct order, efficiently.  Agar, tubs, spore prints, liquid inoculants and cultures, drying, storing, etc, is all happening at the same time for most of us.  One tek'll never get you all the way.


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22386017 - 10/15/15 10:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So I've spent the last couple hours looking over all of the links you provided. Could you tell me if I'm on the right track?

I want to stay away from inoculating my WBS with spores, but instead create an agar from spore syringe. After that, prepare my WBS, follow the tek exactly, but instead of spore syringe, use an agar wedges. Once my jar of WBS is 100%, I want to prepare my bulk substrate using the coir tek (follow it exactly), mix the spawn into 3/4 of the coir mixture, and coat the top with the remaining 1/4 of the coir. Wait until fruiting conditions, fruit, harvest, spore print or live culture, transfer to agar, and repeat all over again. Does that sound right?


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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22386038 - 10/15/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty much. Tho you should look into cloning and culture storage. Its pretty much what people do instead of continuously printing and starting on spores. Tho it seems like an endless amount of starting on spores for me hahah


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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22386044 - 10/15/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That would be ideal, yes, but you don't have to print each grow to start on agar again, you can just keep transferring the culture you have on agar while the grow is going on so that you can start a new grow using the same culture you began with, it should last quite a while if you keep expanding it.  You can shoot spores in WBS if you really want to get a few jars going, but definitely plan to be doing what you just outlined.


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Offlinejust_curious
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22386117 - 10/15/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That's great. It seems smarter to use agar instead of spores since they last pretty much forever and you can keep making them rather than reordering syringes. I'm assuming the room for error is pretty big with agar? Would you recommend makin your own in glad Tupperware type bowls, or ordering Petri dishes, or ordering pre-agar''d dishes?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22386140 - 10/15/15 10:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I just use agar agar powder from the asian market with potato flakes and honey, or just mix diluted grain water with agar agar, done.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Offlinejust_curious
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22386185 - 10/15/15 10:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, I'll try to find a tek for that. Do you use actual Petri dishes?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22386199 - 10/15/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlinejust_curious
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22386208 - 10/15/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, I checked out pastys tek earlier. I'll probably go with that. Thanks again for all your help. I'll be stocking up on supplies and getting at it soon


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InvisibleLocN9ne
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: just_curious]
    #22386623 - 10/16/15 12:28 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think you are going for a record there noc... most times having to repost the same links to answer another question that was covered in the links...


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22386655 - 10/16/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

He came in playing 20 questions basically. Expecting us to be his trained dogs and research it all for him. I don't mind a couple questions, or needing some clarification. But this was just wow..

The dude needs to read like days worth of material. Not really interested in rewriting every tek. No one is, that's why we send links of teks. All you gotta do is read them, but you got snappy when loc told you to.

That's what I did. Read read read. Search search search. Look at my main posts. I made 3 threads in cult, to ask a single question in each of them. And 2/3 of them people didn't even answer them anyway, so I read some more to get my answers. Lol.

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Quote:

LocN9ne said:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22144051
Check that out.



Yeah I wrote that, and if you followed it you wouldn't have problems. Hint: CLICK THE PICS.

Step 1: Use The Search Function (UTSF)
   

Doing so you'll find up to date info from TC's. Pretty much all saying the same thing....




Its actually a rule too..

1.  Please use the search posts function before asking a question.  Your question has already been asked and answered hundreds of times, so don't think you're going to get a better answer by asking it again.  In the 'search posts' link at the top of the page, you can select an individual user or the trusted cultivator group as a whole to filter results to come only from them.


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How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
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AMU Q&A
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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: LocN9ne]
    #22386718 - 10/16/15 01:11 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LocN9ne said:
I think you are going for a record there noc...




And to think, I've been called pretentious and unhelpful.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22386729 - 10/16/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Lol. But to be fair you've done much more than straight to the point 1 sentence answers here. It seems that's the shit people don't like. When you give a simple answer lol


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contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Some questions for the experts!? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22386745 - 10/16/15 01:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Fuck em all, good sir.  Fuck every last one of em. :shrug:


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