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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Asante]
    #22402234 - 10/19/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I do when I agree with him.  Which is most of the time.  Not all of it but most of it.  I am Pris's White Knight.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #22402316 - 10/19/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Let me get this straight, you defend any cops shooting civilians, shutting down protests with military force, defend the 1%, corporations, walmart and other wage slave exploiters and now factory farms?

:standingby:





I condemn the stupidity of criminals and am glad they are shot, I support legal
protests, not unsanctioned rioting, I support those that earn their money nd
condemn those that claim it's simply greed, I call the walmart whiners idiots
because people dont have to take jobs there, if walmart has no employees then how
the fuck will they sell a product

let me get this straight from you, you condemn the cops so that means you support
and defend murders, rapists and pedophiles, you condemn the 1% even though it's
not their fault the 99% is a bunch of crying bitches that want shit handed to
them, you condemn walmart without even a clue as to the actual wages they pay
even though all of these 'labor lawsuits' against them come from people hired by
and are working for temp services and as of yet, not a single person has shown me
their own footage of a fucking factory farm but you're willing to gobble it up
with absolutely no evidence what so ever

:notwaitingbecauseweknowitstrue:


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InvisibleAsante
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22402318 - 10/19/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Get a room :grin:


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higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Asante]
    #22402325 - 10/19/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

you condemn the 1% even though it's not their fault the 99% is a bunch of crying bitches that want shit handed to
them





You're trolling right :lol:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Asante]
    #22402532 - 10/19/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

you condemn the 1% even though it's not their fault the 99% is a bunch of crying bitches that want shit handed to
them





You're trolling right :lol:





no, I'm looking at things from your perspective

if you condemn the actions of a cop then you support and defend the actions of the
murderers just as your claim is that if I condemn the actions of a criminal I must
support and defend the actions of the cops

I dont give two shits about whether a dumbass dies because of his own stupidity
and it doesnt matter to me if that dumbass is a cop or a criminal


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OfflineGoldenEye
...
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Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #22402829 - 10/19/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Life must be so easy when everything is black and white.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 4
    #22402991 - 10/19/15 10:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
then maybe you can tell us how the sustainability or the model works when it cost
$800 per year to feed a pig that will fetch $300 at market, maybe you can tell us
how the antibiotics, labor, water electricity must be offsetting the cost of the
feed. maybe you can tell us how these alleged factory farms you saw in the 80s
didnt spring up until the late 90s



Having addressed the last statement already as being observably false for anyone who was around in the 1980s of pig farms popping up in the 1990s according to your unfounded opinion, let's have a look at the cost breakdown of pig farming. There's a convenient source for this, which you cannot read except for the very informative English summary, but it's a study undertaken by a Dutch university with an internationally recognized reputation for being a powerhouse of knowledge on farming. You can find it here and run passages through google translate if you like.

A few points worthy of note:
* The costs of meat pigs consist of ca 60% of food. The remainder is labor, costs associated with health (including antibiotics), procreation/replenishment (artificial insemination etc.), costs of disposal of dung, etc. See page 10 of the report for an English summary including this info.
* The total production costs of pig meat are on average around € 1.60 - € 1.70 per kg in Europe and between € 1.24 and € 1.33 for the US, Canada and Brasil. Also page 10 for your convenience.
* Market value of pig meat in Europe is currently around € 1.30 per kg (down from previous years; http://www.pigbusiness.nl/markt/varkensprijzen), while production costs are roughly similar to those in 2011 outlined in the report. Yes, pig meat production in Europe is a net loss and therefore economically unsustainable with current parameters. US prices were around € 1.30/kg in 2011 as well and currently a tad lower at  a little over € 1.22 (source: indexmundi.com). This implies that pork production is at best about break-even in the US and very sensitive to minute changes in production costs and market prices.
* Living space of an average European pig is between 0.65m2 and 1m2 (7-11ft2) (page 38). Clearly we're not talking about free-range pigs here and this number is consistent with factory farming - but we already knew that, but you were a bit late to the party. Maybe the US is a magical exception and offers spacey lofts for meat pigs to enjoy and surely, the rest of the world would like to learn from you if that's the case.
* The origin of the feedstock varies, but market prices of feedstock follow global feedstock trends. In the US, the feed stock mainly consists of corn and soy (page 18). The cost differential of pig feed between the US/Brasil/Canada and Europe is attributable to exchange rates and the fact that European feedstock is more varied than that in the US. While in some countries feedstock is primarily produced by the farmers themselves (e.g. Denmark), other countries depend largely on imported feedstock (UK, Ireland, Spain).

All considered, the picture is quite clear: pork production is an industry that is economically largely unsustainable or at best break-even. And yet, US pork production in 2013 was over 10,000,000 metric tonnes, which is a little under 10% of the global market (source, page 16). Europe has a share of about 20% in global pork production (page 11 of the previously mentioned source), and the numbers show a slight growth over the past decade. So it's safe to say we're not talking about an incident or minor occurrence here.

In case you still think the term 'industry' is inappropriate and there's no such thing as a factory farm, it's funny to note that in the US, most pigs are owned by farms consisting of 50,000 pigs (page 11) - not counting owners, accountants and farm hands, of course.

If we can now agree on the fact that this industry is also problematic in terms of its economics, which is a point you appeared to insist to make (and rightfully so, as it's a problematic industry altogether), perhaps we can move back to the issue of land use, which you still haven't addressed.


Edited by koraks (10/19/15 11:00 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Asante]
    #22403027 - 10/19/15 11:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Get a room :grin:



Get a job:grin:


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #22403042 - 10/19/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Get a room :grin:



Get a job:grin:




get a brain, moran:grin:


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Mad_Larkin] * 1
    #22403113 - 10/19/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)



"why do we still do this?"


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OfflineGoldenEye
...
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Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 6 months, 19 days
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22403177 - 10/19/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Great post koraks, even shows why the EU subsedised the export of EU manufactured pork.

Subsedies, subsedies.

Ever noticed how many milk commercials there are? Not for a brand either. Just for milk.

I can't decide wether they are embarassing, desperate or funny. They might be all three.









Edited by GoldenEye (10/19/15 11:54 AM)


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 6 months, 19 days
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22403230 - 10/19/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I grew up with massive ammounts of commercials for chicken meat coming to think of it.

Quote:

Kip, het meest veelzijdige stukje vlees, kip.




It advertised chicken as the most multi faceted type of meat. All over TV for years.

I still think about the slogan when I am shopping and walk past the poultry section, whenever I can't decide what to eat, and whenever anyone mentions chicken.





Edited by GoldenEye (10/19/15 12:07 PM)


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth
Male

Registered: 09/30/12
Posts: 11,904
Loc: All Good in Allgood
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye] * 1
    #22403237 - 10/19/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I hate to agree with the unwashed hippies, but poultry farms are fucked. The only real jobs in my area are in the chicken industry (hell, there's only 2 other people within a 10 mile radius, but there's 6 chicken houses) and every job you can have in that industry (on the ground level that is, of course) is fuuucked.

If you work in the actual houses, you're exposed to such high levels of ammonia, you have to wear a mask. Even with the mask, if you try to make it a steady gig your lungs are gonna be fucked.

In the factory, you're pretty much working in a sweat-shop. Except it's cold. So . . . an icicle shop? :lol:

I may complain, but it's the only thing that keeps this little town afloat.


--------------------
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[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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Offlinetwighead
mͯó
I'm a teapot


Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 29,560
Loc: Glenn Gould's Fuck Windmill Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 27 minutes
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace] * 1
    #22404107 - 10/19/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------
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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: twighead]
    #22404186 - 10/19/15 04:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm glad I watched that :lol:


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[quote]Sheekle said:
[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote]
u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #22404210 - 10/19/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Seems like koraks scared pris away.


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Offlinetwighead
mͯó
I'm a teapot


Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 29,560
Loc: Glenn Gould's Fuck Windmill Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 27 minutes
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace] * 1
    #22404287 - 10/19/15 04:31 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ThatKidWithTheFace said:
I'm glad I watched that :lol:



pesto fries... pesto soup... Ritalin...:rofl:


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¿Check out some art m8?



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OfflineTheMovement
faeirie princess in training
I'm a teapot


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 6,781
Loc: Under your bed.
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: twighead]
    #22404326 - 10/19/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I don't even like pesto and i'm a veggie.

I looooove ritalin tho om nom nom


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: koraks]
    #22405341 - 10/19/15 08:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
then maybe you can tell us how the sustainability or the model works when it cost
$800 per year to feed a pig that will fetch $300 at market, maybe you can tell us
how the antibiotics, labor, water electricity must be offsetting the cost of the
feed. maybe you can tell us how these alleged factory farms you saw in the 80s
didnt spring up until the late 90s



Having addressed the last statement already as being observably false for anyone who was around in the 1980s of pig farms popping up in the 1990s according to your unfounded opinion, let's have a look at the cost breakdown of pig farming. There's a convenient source for this, which you cannot read except for the very informative English summary, but it's a study undertaken by a Dutch university with an internationally recognized reputation for being a powerhouse of knowledge on farming. You can find it here and run passages through google translate if you like.

A few points worthy of note:
* The costs of meat pigs consist of ca 60% of food. The remainder is labor, costs associated with health (including antibiotics), procreation/replenishment (artificial insemination etc.), costs of disposal of dung, etc. See page 10 of the report for an English summary including this info.
* The total production costs of pig meat are on average around € 1.60 - € 1.70 per kg in Europe and between € 1.24 and € 1.33 for the US, Canada and Brasil. Also page 10 for your convenience.
* Market value of pig meat in Europe is currently around € 1.30 per kg (down from previous years; http://www.pigbusiness.nl/markt/varkensprijzen), while production costs are roughly similar to those in 2011 outlined in the report. Yes, pig meat production in Europe is a net loss and therefore economically unsustainable with current parameters. US prices were around € 1.30/kg in 2011 as well and currently a tad lower at  a little over € 1.22 (source: indexmundi.com). This implies that pork production is at best about break-even in the US and very sensitive to minute changes in production costs and market prices.
* Living space of an average European pig is between 0.65m2 and 1m2 (7-11ft2) (page 38). Clearly we're not talking about free-range pigs here and this number is consistent with factory farming - but we already knew that, but you were a bit late to the party. Maybe the US is a magical exception and offers spacey lofts for meat pigs to enjoy and surely, the rest of the world would like to learn from you if that's the case.
* The origin of the feedstock varies, but market prices of feedstock follow global feedstock trends. In the US, the feed stock mainly consists of corn and soy (page 18). The cost differential of pig feed between the US/Brasil/Canada and Europe is attributable to exchange rates and the fact that European feedstock is more varied than that in the US. While in some countries feedstock is primarily produced by the farmers themselves (e.g. Denmark), other countries depend largely on imported feedstock (UK, Ireland, Spain).

All considered, the picture is quite clear: pork production is an industry that is economically largely unsustainable or at best break-even. And yet, US pork production in 2013 was over 10,000,000 metric tonnes, which is a little under 10% of the global market (source, page 16). Europe has a share of about 20% in global pork production (page 11 of the previously mentioned source), and the numbers show a slight growth over the past decade. So it's safe to say we're not talking about an incident or minor occurrence here.

In case you still think the term 'industry' is inappropriate and there's no such thing as a factory farm, it's funny to note that in the US, most pigs are owned by farms consisting of 50,000 pigs (page 11) - not counting owners, accountants and farm hands, of course.

If we can now agree on the fact that this industry is also problematic in terms of its economics, which is a point you appeared to insist to make (and rightfully so, as it's a problematic industry altogether), perhaps we can move back to the issue of land use, which you still haven't addressed.





so yeah... a dutch paper you snagged from the wikipedia page... brilliant tactic'

can you tell us the amount of feed a pig eats in a day and what the cost of that feed is?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye] * 1
    #22405345 - 10/19/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Seems like koraks scared pris away.





pris has a job buckwheat, that job doesnt involve me paying on the internet all day


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