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OfflineGoldenEye
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Registered: 05/24/13
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22401573 - 10/19/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The animals we raise for food are never in danger of starvation..




Except for veal of course. They are fed a certain diet to prevent muscle formation. But nobody cares about veal. They only live 4 months in cages. Because if they walked they would... that's right, form muscles.


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OfflineCosmicAdventurer
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Registered: 09/15/13
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22401585 - 10/19/15 08:36 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They don't worry about starvation?  Animals will reproduce until the area can't support their numbers.  That means starvation.




No.

Even now we have to cull millions every year across the country because there's to many of the lovely creatures.

Places like Tasmania were "the garden of Eden" and humans only needed 12 items to survive and flourish, yep only 12.
Food was plentiful.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye] * 1
    #22401592 - 10/19/15 08:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The animals we raise for food are never in danger of starvation..




Except for veal of course. They are fed a certain diet to prevent muscle formation. But nobody cares about veal. They only live 4 months in cages. Because if they walked they would... that's right, form muscles.





what is that certain diet? would it be called milk? the same diet they'd be getting
if they were still with the cows that birthed them? know what part of a beef calf
people eat? it's the muscle tissue, all mammals are born with muscles, the muscles
dont form after they're birthed


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: CosmicAdventurer]
    #22401597 - 10/19/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicAdventurer said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They don't worry about starvation?  Animals will reproduce until the area can't support their numbers.  That means starvation.




No.

Even now we have to cull millions every year across the country because there's to many of the lovely creatures.

Places like Tasmania were "the garden of Eden" and humans only needed 12 items to survive and flourish, yep only 12.
Food was plentiful.





what are those 12 things?


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22401624 - 10/19/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Of course its the muscle we eat, but it needs to be soft and tender to be vealy. So no excercise for veal.

The formula that most veal are fed is indeed milk based. But added to it are many supplements intended at keeping the meat rosy coloured and less tough. Read, under developed.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22401630 - 10/19/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Of course its the muscle we eat, but it needs to be soft and tender to be vealy. So no excercise for veal.

The formula that most veal are fed is indeed milk based. But added to it are many supplements intended at keeping the meat rosy coloured and less tough. Read, under developed.





right, only the meat tends to be a pale color, close to yellow... what difference
does it make, that veal calf can simply be slaughtered or it can be used to feed
someone. which do you see as more fitting


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22401633 - 10/19/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

How about getting rid of the entire livestock sector?


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OfflineCosmicAdventurer
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22401639 - 10/19/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

All I know is the Tasmanian mob had 12 and the mainland mob had over 30. Watched a doco years ago


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OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22401640 - 10/19/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I mean, if you're against killing mllions of cattle and wasting 90% of the meat or the near extinction of a few species, that's really not going to be viable.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Achillita]
    #22401654 - 10/19/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Why not?

It's not going to happen over night, nor should it happen over night.

More and more people will change their diet and slowly but steadily more and more livestock farms will close.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22401665 - 10/19/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You could at from happy local cows is not that expensive. Walmart now sells grass fed meat here...from New Zealand!
I will remind you, that not near me


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #22401669 - 10/19/15 09:04 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
then maybe you can tell us how the sustainability or the model works when it cost
$800 per year to feed a pig that will fetch $300 at market, maybe you can tell us
how the antibiotics, labor, water electricity must be offsetting the cost of the
feed. maybe you can tell us how these alleged factory farms you saw in the 80s
didnt spring up until the late 90s



they didn't emerge in the 90s. They were there in the 80s. I was there, I saw them, played around them, saw them being built, witnessed how pig farmers had to go up or out, lived between the corn fields used to feed both pigs and cows, saw the feed trucks that brought the additional feed made from dead animals, leftovers from the food industry and purposefully grown soy, saw pig farmers sell their land to cattle farmers and being paid in cash as one group needed land and the other didn't, noticed how antibiotics first became a miracle cure in the 1980s and then increasingly became a problem in the 1990s and currently are a substantial concern particularly in pork and poultry production, saw the bags of fertilizer made from south American mineral deposits used to boost the productivity of poor soils. And all these things are plain to see for everyone. Nobody knows everything about the entire industry worldwide, but the existence of pig farms with many hundreds to a few thousands of pigs per farm is undeniable and far from a secret. You can deny whatever you want, but to what end? You purport to bring an objective viewpoint to this debate. I applaud this and encourage you to do so. In researching the topic, you may find out what I and many others have already learned: that the production of pork and poultry have similar dynamics, offer similar challenges to society and have absolutely nothing to do with making efficient use of land that is otherwise unusable for agricultural production. That argument may be viable for part of the beef production, but it's utter nonsense in relation to pork and poultry.


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: koraks]
    #22401839 - 10/19/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The only time pigs get to go outside is when their factory farm is flooded:



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: koraks]
    #22401881 - 10/19/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

feel free to fill us in on the economics of how that $300 feeder pig is fed
purchased feed, antibiotics, the fucktons of labor required to maintain a
facility, water consumption that's not just for pig use but also for
sanitation, etc... I'm curious also how land unsuitable for other agricultural
use managed to grow feed for pigs


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22402036 - 10/19/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The fact that you nor I have full insight into the bookkeeping of pig farmers doesn't negate the existence of the problems associated with that industry.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #22402057 - 10/19/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Let me get this straight, you defend any cops shooting civilians, shutting down protests with military force, defend the 1%, corporations, walmart and other wage slave exploiters and now factory farms?

:standingby:


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22402077 - 10/19/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I'm going to go out on a hunch here and say subsedies. The demand has grown so large that it is impossible to meet in any econimically healthy way.

I know that the dairy industry is very heavily subsedised. There are subsedies in the poultry industry too. I wouldn't be surprised if the hogs were heavily subsedised as well.

Dutch pig farmers did get subsedised by the EU to export their meat, I know that much.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22402110 - 10/19/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

A pig may cost $800 a year, but most pigs are slaughtered at 6 months old. They don't get to live a year.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Asante]
    #22402121 - 10/19/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Let me get this straight, you defend any cops shooting civilians, shutting down protests with military force, defend the 1%, corporations, walmart and other wage slave exploiters and now factory farms?

:standingby:



He doesn't defend all cop shootings, Rioters are not protestors, why do people who make money not deserve defending, corporations are a legal fiction to enable lots of people, not just the rich, to protect personal assets from lawsuits and seizure,  Walmart provides a market for cheap goods that benefit poor people.  Rich people do not shop at WalMart.  There is no such thing as a slave wage.  You can leave any time you want.  Slaves can't.  Factory farms allow for cheap products. Do you think only the rich should be able to afford meat?

Kneejerk bullshit from a welfare case who doesn't pay his own bills.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22402162 - 10/19/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You got his back huh?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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