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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: zappaisgod]
#22401301 - 10/19/15 05:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: We treat them better than they treat each other.
They only start biting each other if you put them in cramped cages on bare concrete or gauze.
In light of your statement, I challenge you to watch the following video.
The first 10 minutes are a walk in the park, after that you're on your own.
If I ever become a vegetarian, this video was my best motivator. I have always been pro animal rights but this has really awoken me:
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Asante]
#22401336 - 10/19/15 06:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for the vid Asante, I will watch it once I get home from work.
I saw some PETA vids a homie sent me, since that I haven't been able to consume dairy/meat without feeling a huge amount of guilt. I was trying to eat some pork one day and I kept hearing pigs squealing in my mind, shit was kinda intense.
I feel a lot better about myself when I don't consume dairy/meat, the only thing I need to cut out completely is yogurt and butter. I eat a greek yogurt with muesli every morning for breakfast, my stomach needs the good bacteria in it. I saw some keifer starter grains which were vegan at the store the other day, I want to try to do that.
I also eat real butter every now and then, hardly ever though, usually once a week. I read it was good (cholesterol) to keep your hormones going properly, anyone know anything about that?
My fave meat is fish though, which I don't feel so bad about eating. Can't give up sushi, tuna, mahimahi 
I eat a ton of beans and peas, pea protein is the shit, and if you want good protein with the amino acids your body needs, try hemp protein. Also potatoes are complete protein, at least if memory serves me correct they are, but you have to eat a decent amount of them to get enough protein.
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GoldenEye
...



Registered: 05/24/13
Posts: 4,340
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 6 months, 19 days
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Lucis]
#22401342 - 10/19/15 06:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can eat kimchi instead of yoghurt! Same bacterias, tasty, makes every meal better, easy to make, doesn't go bad
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye]
#22401348 - 10/19/15 06:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I eat meat because it is healthy amd makes me feel great
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: GoldenEye]
#22401350 - 10/19/15 06:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah I eat a lot of sauerkraut too, love kimchi as well but the stuff I had was just really salty.
Kimchi is Korean correct? I should maybe try to make my own.
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Lucis]
#22401358 - 10/19/15 06:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fennario said: Yeah I eat a lot of sauerkraut too, love kimchi as well but the stuff I had was just really salty.
Kimchi is Korean correct? I should maybe try to make my own.
yum, love some cultured food
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22401374 - 10/19/15 06:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: so no, protein isnt the reason why they receive corn as a supplement in their diets as opposed to the being a complete diet as most vegans/animal rights activists would have you believe
I'm not relying on information from activists. I look at the documentation of cattle feed producers and the knowledge of local farmers that I have spoken with many times. Soy is an important element of this additional feed. I think you and I agree that information spread by activists is intended for a very specific purpose and should therefore be viewed very critically. In verifying my knowledge on the topic, I steer clear from sources such as Peta for this very reason.
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I've never in my life seen a 'factory farm' for anything but poultry
Pork.
I see photos of people claiming something to be a factory pig farm, typically a large building and nothing more. I've never seen this in real life
That's alright, I can't blame you for this. I have seen pork factories / pig farms from my early childhood in the 1980s and I have seen them from the inside. I those 30 years, the majority of the pork produced has come from pigs that have never seen the light of day and have been fed with a mix of locally produced and imported feedstock. I'm not a pig farmer, but I do know that the economics are such that the only feasible way to produce pork this way is through huge economies or scale, cutting costs wherever possible and depending on where you are, substantial subsidies. These are the realities of pig farming and you're free to talk to pig 'farmers' to verify this. These such aren't exactly secrets.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Kukaracha]
#22401399 - 10/19/15 06:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Kukaracha said: ...factory farms, mostly concerning pig farms.
Factory farms are cheaper to run. You need less space, a food of lesser quality. The idea is that the animals thus raised would eventually die of disease or develop sever mental or health problems, which is fine since you send them to the slaughterhouse before it gets critical. Some may die in the process but overall it's much more productive than an open farm, though you need to inject a massive quantity of antibiotics to get them to the slaughterhouses alive.
how can they be cheaper to run when all of the food has to be provided from start to finish, when is it cheaper to provide 100% of the food and disallow foraging, when is it cheaper to have a dozen people hosing out a giant building, since when is it cheaper to constantly buy antibiotics in order to keep an animals healthy? how does it become cheaper to keep them under artificial lights all of their life?
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tell me sparky, do you even know what this is you're looking at? do you know what it is you're trying to tell us to believe, I mean specifically, not sumb stupid answer like 'a commercial pig farm' because at this point you're appearing to be like every other vegan out there that it incapable of researching and thinking for themselves
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22401413 - 10/19/15 07:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have nothing of substance to share, but...
Let the record show that I love meat, but only wild meats. Venison is a favorite of mine, so is bison, maybe it's the Cherokee in me I don't know.
I really wish I knew some people to buy venison from, since moving from the south I lost my deer meat hookup.
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poke smot!
floccinocci floofinator



Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? *DELETED* [Re: koraks] 1
#22401428 - 10/19/15 07:16 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by poke smot!Reason for deletion: x
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Mad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: poke smot!]
#22401433 - 10/19/15 07:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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you're missin out with the cat, thats some good eatin'!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Asante]
#22401444 - 10/19/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Asante said:
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zappaisgod said: We treat them better than they treat each other.
They only start biting each other if you put them in cramped cages on bare concrete or gauze.
That's not true at all. Ever seen a pride of lions eating a wildebeest while it is still alive? Do you know what happens to the cubs when the lion gets old and sick and another lion takes over the pride? Nature red in tooth and claw. Every wild animal lives in constant fear of predation and starvation.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#22401458 - 10/19/15 07:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I rate the gory homicidal violence of animals against each other as less abusive as letting animals be born en masse in what best can be described as an overcrowded death camp for the purpose of producing meat at inhumanely low prices and then tossing half of that meat away anyway.
And talking of killing cubs, humans also abort their own like theres no tomorrow, the US alone aborts human foetuses at the same rate as nazi germany killed Jews during the Holocaust, measured in kills-per-year. (half the world does that, so its not specifically an American thing)
Watch that video. Its astonishing they could compile it so readily.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: koraks]
#22401486 - 10/19/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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koraks said: That's alright, I can't blame you for this. I have seen pork factories / pig farms from my early childhood in the 1980s and I have seen them from the inside. I those 30 years, the majority of the pork produced has come from pigs that have never seen the light of day and have been fed with a mix of locally produced and imported feedstock. I'm not a pig farmer, but I do know that the economics are such that the only feasible way to produce pork this way is through huge economies or scale, cutting costs wherever possible and depending on where you are, substantial subsidies. These are the realities of pig farming and you're free to talk to pig 'farmers' to verify this. These such aren't exactly secrets.
then maybe you can tell us how the sustainability or the model works when it cost $800 per year to feed a pig that will fetch $300 at market, maybe you can tell us how the antibiotics, labor, water electricity must be offsetting the cost of the feed. maybe you can tell us how these alleged factory farms you saw in the 80s didnt spring up until the late 90s
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Achillita
Back to the basics



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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Kukaracha] 1
#22401495 - 10/19/15 07:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Kukaracha said:
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zappaisgod said: The pesticides are all leached out through the evaporation process. Science wasn't your forte in school, was it.
Pesticides reach water sources and contaminate them. For example, water in the region of Brittany, France, is not fit for human consumption. People don't drink tap water anymore because of...
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Achillita said: I've never seen a factory farm. It doesn't make sense. It sounds expensive as hell too.
...factory farms, mostly concerning pig farms.
Factory farms are cheaper to run. You need less space, a food of lesser quality. The idea is that the animals thus raised would eventually die of disease or develop sever mental or health problems, which is fine since you send them to the slaughterhouse before it gets critical. Some may die in the process but overall it's much more productive than an open farm, though you need to inject a massive quantity of antibiotics to get them to the slaughterhouses alive.


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akira_akuma said: what did you say?
I say that you don't need cheap, daily meat. A couple of times a week is enough, unless you work out.
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ThatKidWithTheFace said:
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Achillita said: I honestly doubt all the claims that most meat is raised in these cattle prisons. I used to work on my grandpa's ranch as a teen in oklahoma. I would bet that cows outnumber humans in oklahoma.
Ain't that the truth. Most of the land in my area is populated by cows 
This is called a confirmation bias caused by anecdotal evidence. It means you take your own experience and apply it to the world. "I know a man named Patrick and he's pretty smart, therefore all Patricks are smart" is another example.
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Prisoner#1 said: I'm sure it eventually does but it's not pumped from these aquifers straight to the ocean and as zappa mentioned, we have this cycle known as evaporation and precipitation, that means water takes on a gaseous form and rises into the air, evaporation can happen at all temperatures, once the water vapor becomes condensed and heavier than air, it thin precipitates out of the air in the form of fresh water, you may have heard of this stiff, we in the free world call it rain
the really crazy part, it was many, many years ago that man has learned this process and adapted it to his own use, we call it desalinization, we do it on a much smaller scale and we even do it to provide water fro drinking
Rain is not an answer. Regions like Morocco or Northern China are running out of water because water comes from subterranean reserves that are being depleted. The cycle of water is not uniform, it varies with climate and human activity.
Desalinization is too expensive, it's not an answer either. It has a negative ecological impact, when a reduction in production of most water-consuming agricultural sectors would guarantee a local equilibrium.
I never worked too much in pork production. But I can promise you, the second pic that you have looks exactly like a livestock show. I've been too a couple, and the pig section is that pretty much. I'm not condoning unethical treatment whatsoever. But I want actual research done on these things.
I've been on both sides of the curtain. Livestock isn't always gonna look pretty or be easy. I had to put down a baby calf because it stepped in a fire ant pile, and was being eaten alive.
But putting cows in trailers doesn't look like the cleanest thing either at first glance.
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CosmicAdventurer
Dr Getafix?



Registered: 09/15/13
Posts: 127
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: zappaisgod]
#22401498 - 10/19/15 07:51 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Asante said:
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zappaisgod said: We treat them better than they treat each other.
They only start biting each other if you put them in cramped cages on bare concrete or gauze.
That's not true at all. Ever seen a pride of lions eating a wildebeest while it is still alive? Do you know what happens to the cubs when the lion gets old and sick and another lion takes over the pride? Nature red in tooth and claw. Every wild animal lives in constant fear of predation and starvation.
Not true. Most Marsupials from Australia had no natural predators. Kangaroo's are so relaxed in the wild its amazing.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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They don't worry about starvation? Animals will reproduce until the area can't support their numbers. That means starvation.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Asante]
#22401558 - 10/19/15 08:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Asante said: I rate the gory homicidal violence of animals against each other as less abusive as letting animals be born en masse in what best can be described as an overcrowded death camp for the purpose of producing meat at inhumanely low prices and then tossing half of that meat away anyway.
And talking of killing cubs, humans also abort their own like theres no tomorrow, the US alone aborts human foetuses at the same rate as nazi germany killed Jews during the Holocaust, measured in kills-per-year. (half the world does that, so its not specifically an American thing)
Watch that video. Its astonishing they could compile it so readily.
Really? Abortion is the same as killing an already born person? The animals we raise for food are never in danger of starvation..
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Mad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: zappaisgod]
#22401561 - 10/19/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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gassing pigs though, that shit just isn't kosher
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Why do we still eat meat? [Re: Mad_Larkin] 1
#22401567 - 10/19/15 08:28 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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No it is not Kosher.
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