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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22378455 - 10/14/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

How about hong Kong?




Less than 3% of the US population with 7.7 million people total.  National Health Care.  Primarily a financial transactional hub.  Minimal heavy manufacturing.  Tiny military. 

This is the country that you think the US should model its economy on?  Really?

Have you been there?  I have several times and it's an extremely expensive place to visit.  If I was going to spend that kind of money to live in a big city I can think of about 25 cities I'd much rather live in than Hong Kong which is essentially custom made for shopping, expensive hotels and restaurants and that's about it.




The low population doesn't sway socialists from saying we need to be more like Norway...
Low taxes and free trade have made the people of Hong Kong very prosperous...

And the healthcare system is a mix of private and public health...

What's NOT to like?




Given the choice of having to live 5 years in Norway (or anywhere in Scandinavia) or Hong Kong, I'd take Norway in a heartbeat.  Much more beautiful country, friendlier and  happier people ... outdoor paradise. 

But hey, if you want to live in Hong Kong, go for it.

Personally, I think  you have to look for countries with at least 50 million people for it to have much relevance or correlate with the US.  Hong Kong and Norway have almost nothing in common with the US on virtually any level.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22378528 - 10/14/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
How about hong Kong?



Hong Kong has the highest income inequality of all the advanced Asian economies.  That always appears to be the result of small Government.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22378555 - 10/14/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
How about hong Kong?



Hong Kong has the highest income inequality of all the advanced Asian economies.  That always appears to be the result of small Government.  :shrug:




Then I wonder why I come inequality is so high in the US? We have a massive govt., one of the biggest on the planet

Anyways back to HK, they are ranked sixth in life expectancy, the US is 51st, lol

Porka asked for a country with low taxes, small government, free markets, I gave her one, now all the sudden it's not good enough, libs and their excuses...


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22378565 - 10/14/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
How about hong Kong?



Hong Kong has the highest income inequality of all the advanced Asian economies.  That always appears to be the result of small Government.  :shrug:




Then I wonder why I come inequality is so high in the US? We have a massive govt., one of the biggest on the planet

Anyways back to HK, they are ranked sixth in life expectancy, the US is 51st, lol

Porka asked for a country with low taxes, small government, free markets, I gave her one, now all the sudden it's not good enough, libs and their excuses...




Have you ever actually been to Hong Kong and seen it with your own eyes?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22378586 - 10/14/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
How about hong Kong?



Hong Kong has the highest income inequality of all the advanced Asian economies.  That always appears to be the result of small Government.  :shrug:




Then I wonder why I come inequality is so high in the US? We have a massive govt., one of the biggest on the planet

Anyways back to HK, they are ranked sixth in life expectancy, the US is 51st, lol

Porka asked for a country with low taxes, small government, free markets, I gave her one, now all the sudden it's not good enough, libs and their excuses...




Have you ever actually been to Hong Kong and seen it with your own eyes?




If I say yes, you'll call me a liar, if I say no, you'll say then I don't really know what it's like... So I'll just quote killary, "what difference does it make?"

So what's your point? They have everything you outlined and they are massively successful,


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22378620 - 10/14/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

If I say yes, you'll call me a liar, if I say no, you'll say then I don't really know what it's like... So I'll just quote killary, "what difference does it make?"

So what's your point? They have everything you outlined and they are massively successful,




I doubt you've been there.  Anyway, are you suggesting Hong Kong's economic success is due primarily to them having the kind of "small government" you'd like to see here in the US?

I'm sure you realize Hong Kong is primarily a financial services hub for Asia and has more in common wit Bermuda than the US.

Having said that, relatively free markets did attract a lot of investment to Hong Kong.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22378670 - 10/14/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Hong Kong has the highest income inequality of all the advanced Asian economies.  That always appears to be the result of small Government.  :shrug:



Then I wonder why I come inequality is so high in the US? We have a massive govt., one of the biggest on the planet



No, our tax rate is much lower than other more socialist countries, resulting in less spending per capita, and less benefit for the middle class.

The reason income inequality has become so high is easy to explain - tax cuts for the rich (aka 'trickle down economics').

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Porka asked for a country with low taxes, small government, free markets, I gave her one, now all the sudden it's not good enough, libs and their excuses...



Your example is good enough to show it's not a country we should emulate.  I wouldn't want even more income inequality.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22378677 - 10/14/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I've been to Hong Kong, Japan, and Indonesia, lol. Was gonna go to Thailand, but never got around to it... See? You're just a fucking know it all, who's not as smart as you think, and you're so ignorant you don't even realize that you're not very good at it...

So how does Hong Kong have such massive financial wealth and don't have any of the problems that libs here accredit to wall street?


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #22378704 - 10/14/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

So how does Hong Kong have such massive financial wealth and don't have any of the problems that libs here accredit to wall street?




It's a tax haven.  Is that so hard to understand?  Hong Kong attracts very wealthy people from Asia that locate there which drives their financial services sector ... The wealth is, to a large extent, coming there from somewhere else.  It's a transactional hub for the region.  They aren't generating it with huge natural resources development, energy or even manufacturing much anymore although I hear they're trying to get more high tech to come there.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

Edited by KauaiOrca (10/14/15 01:50 PM)

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22378782 - 10/14/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

So how does Hong Kong have such massive financial wealth and don't have any of the problems that libs here accredit to wall street?




It's a tax haven.  Is that so hard to understand?  Hong Kong attracts very wealthy people from Asia that locate there which drives their financial services sector ... The wealth is, to a large extent, coming there from somewhere else.  It's a transactional hub for the region.  They aren't generating it with huge natural resources development, energy or even manufacturing much anymore although I hear they're trying to get more high tech to come there.




Hong Kong isn't a tax haven... Lol


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22378817 - 10/14/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

Hong Kong isn't a tax haven... Lol




#4 in the world, Bud.  What are you laughing at???  Your ignorance?

http://www.therichest.com/expensive-lifestyle/location/the-10-biggest-tax-havens-in-the-world/


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22378919 - 10/14/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I believe Hong Kong is still under control of the Chinese government to some extent, and receives the benefits of that also.

Regardless, America can't have an economy based on being a tax haven. We need manufacturing and innovation. Has Hong Kong developed any inovative technology? Finland certainly has.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/14/15 02:33 PM)

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22378945 - 10/14/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Laughing at yours, just because they call it that doesn't mean it is... Or is this like if someone uses tax law to reduce their taxes, that makes them a tax cheat? Liberal logic...

Well a quick search has revealed that all the libs, the eu, the socialists, have decided to list it as a tax "haven", so either they've loosened up their tax law, or the tax police have broadened their definition, lol, so now anyplace with low taxes is considered a "haven"...

Low taxes are a good thing, no need to demonize those doing well with it out of jealousy...


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22379035 - 10/14/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Laughing at yours, just because they call it that doesn't mean it is...



Does Hong Kong have low taxes, or don't they?  If they do, that by definition makes them a tax haven.

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Or is this like if someone uses tax law to reduce their taxes, that makes them a tax cheat? Liberal logic...



No one said that - that's a straw man.

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Low taxes are a good thing, no need to demonize those doing well with it out of jealousy...



Low taxes on the rich are certainly a good thing for the super wealthy.  Unfortunately, that means everyone else gets less education, less healthcare, less infrastructure, etc...


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #22379088 - 10/14/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

Well a quick search has revealed that all the libs, the eu, the socialists, have decided to list it as a tax "haven", so either they've loosened up their tax law, or the tax police have broadened their definition, lol, so now anyplace with low taxes is considered a "haven"...





Well a quick search has indeed proved me incorrect but instead of acknowledging it I'm gonna first take a jab at groups I don't identify with and then I'll  question the definition being used to appear like I may have been correct.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22379526 - 10/14/15 04:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Laughing at yours, just because they call it that doesn't mean it is... Or is this like if someone uses tax law to reduce their taxes, that makes them a tax cheat? Liberal logic...

Well a quick search has revealed that all the libs, the eu, the socialists, have decided to list it as a tax "haven", so either they've loosened up their tax law, or the tax police have broadened their definition, lol, so now anyplace with low taxes is considered a "haven"...

Low taxes are a good thing, no need to demonize those doing well with it out of jealousy...




Seriously, bud, you're again in an argument you have no idea what you're talking about.  Hong Kong most certainly is a TAX HAVEN in every sense of the word.  It attracted a lot of wealthy people because of its favorable tax status ... that creates the conditions for a fast growing transactional economy based on financial services and rapidly increasing real estate prices through rapid development.  This attracts more wealth, more financial services, etc.  This is the essence of Hong Kong as a financial hub for Asia.  Nothing wrong with that, it is what it is but Hong Kong has nothing in common with the US, a tiny population, is at the mercy militarily of bigger players and imports almost everything it needs. 

Why do you argue issues you know little about?

The US already has a lot of wealth, the biggest capital markets in the world, and plenty of investment.  That's not our problem.

Our problem is that far too much of our wealth is stagnant ... it is tied up in the hands of far too few people.  The velocity of money keeps going down even though the sheer size of our money supply goes up.  The money is hoarded and, in essence taken out of the real economy ... This is what has to change.  Money needs to move ... to flow through as many intersections as possible and keep moving.  The wealthy are moving the assets of America into investments not in America because of excessive greed.  Those investments include decisions that create lots of jobs but not here in America.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master

Edited by KauaiOrca (10/14/15 04:40 PM)

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Offlineqman
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca] * 1
    #22379709 - 10/14/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Laughing at yours, just because they call it that doesn't mean it is... Or is this like if someone uses tax law to reduce their taxes, that makes them a tax cheat? Liberal logic...

Well a quick search has revealed that all the libs, the eu, the socialists, have decided to list it as a tax "haven", so either they've loosened up their tax law, or the tax police have broadened their definition, lol, so now anyplace with low taxes is considered a "haven"...

Low taxes are a good thing, no need to demonize those doing well with it out of jealousy...




Our problem is that far too much of our wealth is stagnant ... it is tied up in the hands of far too few people.  The velocity of money keeps going down even though the sheer size of our money supply goes up.  The money is hoarded and, in essence taken out of the real economy ... This is what has to change.  Money needs to move ... to flow through as many intersections as possible and keep moving.  The wealthy are moving the assets of America into investments not in America because of excessive greed.  Those investments include decisions that create lots of jobs but not here in America.




Very true, in fact many billionaires are saying the same thing, they want to save capitalism and unless something changes, it won't be saved.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: qman]
    #22379921 - 10/14/15 05:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Laughing at yours, just because they call it that doesn't mean it is... Or is this like if someone uses tax law to reduce their taxes, that makes them a tax cheat? Liberal logic...

Well a quick search has revealed that all the libs, the eu, the socialists, have decided to list it as a tax "haven", so either they've loosened up their tax law, or the tax police have broadened their definition, lol, so now anyplace with low taxes is considered a "haven"...

Low taxes are a good thing, no need to demonize those doing well with it out of jealousy...




Our problem is that far too much of our wealth is stagnant ... it is tied up in the hands of far too few people.  The velocity of money keeps going down even though the sheer size of our money supply goes up.  The money is hoarded and, in essence taken out of the real economy ... This is what has to change.  Money needs to move ... to flow through as many intersections as possible and keep moving.  The wealthy are moving the assets of America into investments not in America because of excessive greed.  Those investments include decisions that create lots of jobs but not here in America.




Very true, in fact many billionaires are saying the same thing, they want to save capitalism and unless something changes, it won't be saved.




Warren Buffet on this issue:



Nick Hanauer (another billionaire):



I'm not arguing with you, Qman, btw. Even the billionaires agree with you.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22379941 - 10/14/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

A tax haven USED to mean a place that offers no financial info to other countries, I'm not looking it up, but I'm sure websters, if run by liberals, has changed that definition too, lol

Low taxes on EVERYONE is a good thing, and last time I checked, Hồng Kongs infrastructure, education and healthcare are doing quite well...


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Libertarianism, Anarchism, Social Darwinism, and Free Market Capitalism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22379956 - 10/14/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
A tax haven USED to mean a place that offers no financial info to other countries, I'm not looking it up, but I'm sure websters, if run by liberals, has changed that definition too, lol

Low taxes on EVERYONE is a good thing, and last time I checked, Hồng Kongs infrastructure, education and healthcare are doing quite well...




Check again. Watch the videos I posted. Especially Nick Hanauer.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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