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mollyringworm
worm



Registered: 10/09/15
Posts: 4
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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non sterile spore print
#22378465 - 10/14/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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So i found some actives and made a spore print with most of them on the same piece of paper. God knows it probably isn't sterile but i have been tooling around with the idea of trying to grow for the first time. I know that you're supposed to have a sterile spore print but at this point it's not an option because all the other mushrooms are dry. Do you think these could be used at at any rate of success, or is it just a big waste of time/dangerous?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Paper is no good for spore prints. You want foil or glass or plastic or non porous surfaces. Foil is great its sterile in the roll, glass can be sterilized, and plastic must come sterile to use or be autoclave safe.
With that said there's no such thing as a sterile spore print. Since there's spores on the print its not sterile. You can have a clean print which contains 99.999% spores and <.001% contaminants
There's literally trillions of spores on the print. If you do a good job making the print you can be reasonable safe in assuming that contaminant load is negligible.
If it's an outdoor fruit print start with agar. If it's a print on paper good luck
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22378617 - 10/14/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Agar that shit.
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22378791 - 10/14/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Foil is great its sterile in the roll
Foil is not sterile. It's pretty dam clean, but not sterile. It is clean enough for our purposes. It would need to go through a sterilization process to be considered sterile. It's my pet peeve right now. Just like fuzzy stems is tagyo's pet peeve. ;-)
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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DrCrumbs
Alpha Blue


Registered: 10/25/11
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: tahoe]
#22378851 - 10/14/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I like paper, unlike foil moisture from the mushroom wont build up on it. It just kind of soaks in and dries.
When I use foil I need to use a larger enclosed area to allow it to evaporate away.
I pull from the middle of a fresh stack of copier paper.
Maybe foil is the norm now, but I still like paper.
Agar, and go ahead and try it. Many fruiting conditions arent all that sterile anyway. Hopefully most of what got dropped was just spores from the mushroom.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: DrCrumbs]
#22378975 - 10/14/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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well it's best practice to leave the print open with no cap in a still air box for 24+ hours to ensure its dried off, and most bacteria die. So I don't see why moisture is a cause for concern when you're supposed to not have any, anyway.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Mad Season]
#22379534 - 10/14/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The process in which foil is made renders it sterile. The process itself is sterilization. The heat, and pressure leave it sterilized.
Not only that manufacturers data sheets even state that the foil is sterile
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22379558 - 10/14/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ehhh just this one time I think I'm gonna go with tahoe. I'm sure the foil is for our basic purposes more or less sterile on the parts of it we're getting, halfway into the roll, but the area in whatever factory where they roll it up on that cardboard tube isn't a sterile area, and neither is the store where you bought it, the thing was never airtight. It's probably more than 99.8% clean. I just dunno that it can be technically sterile.
That said, it's still probably the best way to store a print.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22379567 - 10/14/15 04:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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It is, that's why qc labs use it off the roll too
Though the box isn't air tight only the outside of the foil on the first few inches may not be sterile. They use foil to keep things sterile by covering it with foil from the roll. During step ups for yeast propagation when things need to be 100% sterile all the flasks are covered with foil right from a roll. It's a SOP in the industry because the sole fact that foil is a known sterile product.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22379586 - 10/14/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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All of it, regardless of manufacturer, is definitely rolled up by machines in a completely sterile environment before shipping in a way that contaminants can only ever touch the very edges of the foil?
I mean, I'll buy it if the price is right, it just seems more realistic to assume it's got a slight chance of complications since it hung out at the store for however long. On the other hand since it's usually used for food and storage of food items it would behoove them to make sure it is indeed sterile.
I dunno, I try to take the balanced approach and trust nothing fully. If it's truly sterile that's just a bonus.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole] 1
#22379604 - 10/14/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Foil is the one thing I would actually trust to be sterile even off the shelf 15 years later in an apocalypse event.
The foils last two steps before packaging are the final roll to make it so thin which is extremely hot and pressure. Then annealing which is more rigerous than sterilization process anyway
I would be willing to bet all of my money that there's not even one CFU on the inside of a whole 100 yard roll of foil.
I'd also be willing to bet most people make foil less sterile by trying to oven sterilize it.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22379653 - 10/14/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I gotta go with bod on this one...
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: LocN9ne]
#22379807 - 10/14/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry tahoe, I put my chips on your side of the table and now they're gone.
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,674
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22380595 - 10/14/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Sorry tahoe, I put my chips on your side of the table and now they're gone. 
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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BlueIndian
Maestro



Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 858
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open that roll in open air it's no cleaner than it was in the box
not that it even was
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: BlueIndian]
#22382163 - 10/15/15 06:47 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can open it in open air. Shit doesmt magically some its way thru the coiled up roll. You toss out the first few inches and tear off the rest in a SAB or FH.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22383915 - 10/15/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah.. even I can admit that foil is rolled so tightly on the roll you'd have to intentionally blunder it all up to get it dirty or get shit between the layers.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22383952 - 10/15/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I loosely cover Erlenmeyer flasks with it and the wort(grain juice) stays sterile for longer than weeks with just a foil cover. And the foil has never contaminated anything.
The methods and procedures sections of peer reviewed published research articles say foil right off the roll sometimes and its accepted as sterile
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BlueIndian
Maestro



Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 858
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22384167 - 10/15/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not arguing about anything just saying why assume it was made in a sterile environment and it's fine to use for making a print? Why not at least swab the piece with a sterile alcohol pad from a sterile package inside the SAB first?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: BlueIndian]
#22384188 - 10/15/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alcohol is a sanitizer if you wipe foil with alcohol to make it "more clean" you're an idiot. The process of making foil ensures its sterile even though it's in an industrial building...
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: BlueIndian]
#22384195 - 10/15/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alcohol could only make the inside part of foil less sterile. 
The edges and the outer surface are the only parts I ever had doubts about, but that's not really applicable here.
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PinPornProducer
Buy the ticket, take the ride



Registered: 08/23/14
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22384202 - 10/15/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cut a bunch of squares of foil for prints, put them in pint jars, pc them for about 40ish minutes and just open the jar in an sab or glove box to take the foil out when making prints. Its what I do anyways 
I pc about 50 squares at a time
Edited by PinPornProducer (10/15/15 04:20 PM)
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 10 hours, 7 minutes
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: Cut a bunch of squares of foil for prints, put them in pint jars, pc them for about 40ish minutes and just open the jar in an sab or glove box to take the foil out when making prints. Its what I do anyways 
I pc about 50 squares at a time
i bake mine 250 for 1 hour
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Quote:
tripdawg420 said:
Quote:
PinPornProducer said: Cut a bunch of squares of foil for prints, put them in pint jars, pc them for about 40ish minutes and just open the jar in an sab or glove box to take the foil out when making prints. Its what I do anyways 
I pc about 50 squares at a time
i bake mine 250 for 1 hour 
Bake them... how? I can't imagine a way to bake foil without getting it dirtier.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22384277 - 10/15/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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not in a closed jar
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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You bake jars?
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22384287 - 10/15/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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lol yup i used to get moistior in the jars when i pced them
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Huh... can't say I ever put much thought into the concept. I'll just tear it off the roll.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22384304 - 10/15/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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ya but all kind of nastys can land on it like that it aint clean in open air
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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I'm not taking it from the kitchen back to my grow room in my bare hands. Most people just take the roll of foil in the SAB.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
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Loc: to the brain
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22384315 - 10/15/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Has anyone ever put a print to agar, and it ended up with some contamination...then thought, that must be from the foil?
--------------------
Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: LocN9ne]
#22384323 - 10/15/15 04:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I usually attribute it to my technique or the spores themselves.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22384326 - 10/15/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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i like to prep things before i do shit like ill take the tub im printing from and bring it into my still air room and let the caps open in still air
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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I don't really print from tubs too often. If I do I select fruits where the veil hasn't torn and I tear it myself in the SAB.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22384350 - 10/15/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: tripdawg420] 1
#22384933 - 10/15/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just for you guys. Everyone worries about the print being super fucking clean, its your skills if you're having problems growing. I've never had any problem with prints and syringes made from them when only this much care was taken. The table is wiped down foil put down cap placed and then a super down Tupperware over the top. If I'm making a bunch of prints I'll use the SAB cus there for trades. For my library this is all I do... Worry about being 100% sterile with agar
Prints only needs to be "pretty fucking clean" not sterile.
Foil is sterile off the roll
And God isn't real.
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LocN9ne
ɢᄋᄋd ԲᄋЯ ᄁᄋȚᅢΙᄁɢ ᄂᄋ₩ᄂΙԲᄐ



Registered: 04/17/15
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22385027 - 10/15/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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--------------------
Q&A US vs. THEM The more I learn, the less I know.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: LocN9ne]
#22385050 - 10/15/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I do love a print that germinates without contam on the first swipe.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: Inocuole]
#22385709 - 10/15/15 09:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Almost always do
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: non sterile spore print [Re: bodhisatta]
#22388043 - 10/16/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Alcohol is a sanitizer if you wipe foil with alcohol to make it "more clean" you're an idiot. The process of making foil ensures its sterile even though it's in an industrial building...
I know that foil is clean enough for taking prints and might for the most part be sterile. How does rolling aluminum through a press make it sterile? When I say sterile I am talking a new scalpel blade in its wrapper or a new needle in its package. Aluminum foil is not sterile in that sense. I would imagine that foil has wood/paper fiber all over it from bouncing around in its box.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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