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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Stacking Monotubs
#22378442 - 10/14/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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When stacking monotubs, does performance very depending on tub location with in the stack? Does polyfil adjustment very depending on tub location with in a stack?
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Not gonna vote since I don't stack, but I feel like I've heard something about stacks of them forming some kind of.... weird... convection current that basically helps them all perform a little better. Can't think of the exact science that would support that but I'm interested nonetheless in people's responses.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Stacking Monotubs [Re: Inocuole]
#22378527 - 10/14/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The bottom tub should generate more heat than the top tub because the top tub has more exposure to the cooler outside air. This would mean that the rate of air flow should be greater in the bottom than in the top tub.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Wouldn't the upward path of heat through all of the tubs in the stack encourage air movement due to evaporation and convection inside each tub, perhaps culminating at the top tub? I've always wanted to get a set of clear tubs and stack em but the opaque ones are so damn cheap and I really don't mind making windows in those.
Very interested in if there's a benefit though.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Often the weight of the above tubs will cause the imperfect lids to seal better on the lower ones. Poly will usually need to be dialed in to adjust for that.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Stacking Monotubs [Re: Inocuole]
#22378607 - 10/14/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Often the weight of the above tubs will cause the imperfect lids to seal better on the lower ones. Poly will usually need to be dialed in to adjust for that.
So each level of the stack is individualized by the tightness of the polyfil?
Quote:
Inocuole said: Wouldn't the upward path of heat through all of the tubs in the stack encourage air movement due to evaporation and convection inside each tub, perhaps culminating at the top tub? I've always wanted to get a set of clear tubs and stack em but the opaque ones are so damn cheap and I really don't mind making windows in those.
Very interested in if there's a benefit though.
Yes. Heat transfer would have an upward motion. The effect, IMO, would only occur up until the second from the last tub, due to the top of the top tub being exposed to cooler air. Where as the tubs below are only exposed on the sides. So the heat from the tub above would cause a greater buoyancy in the tub below.
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cArcace-x
YeAh!!



Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 2,412
Loc: The Simulator
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i think it depend on the air circulation in the room i tend to put my poly a bit tighter in the center or at the level of the fan, bottom and top looser...
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Quote:
insanemike said: The bottom tub should generate more heat than the top tub because the top tub has more exposure to the cooler outside air. This would mean that the rate of air flow should be greater in the bottom than in the top tub.
Wouldn't the heat generated always be the same since it's the living myc generating it via thermogenesis? It might generate more condensation since it's not benefitting from the huddling and sharing of heat though?
Pasty's point about the lids being tighter is a good one. Seems like it'd get way too wet like that. I'll monitor mine.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
insanemike said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Often the weight of the above tubs will cause the imperfect lids to seal better on the lower ones. Poly will usually need to be dialed in to adjust for that.
So each level of the stack is individualized by the tightness of the polyfil?
Yes. Tubs on the bottom are dialed in looser than the top tub.
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DaveyJones6911
Nonconformist


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 690
Loc: EU
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Re: Stacking Monotubs [Re: Inocuole]
#22378745 - 10/14/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Not gonna vote since I don't stack, but I feel like I've heard something about stacks of them forming some kind of.... weird... convection current that basically helps them all perform a little better. Can't think of the exact science that would support that but I'm interested nonetheless in people's responses.
i would suggest that the element that makes the difference is simply the distance between the holes. mono and double tubs are supposed to work on the principle of a pressure differential initiating a chain reaction of air movement. like siphoning water trough a hose, once it runs it keeps running.
so i think more distance between the holes increases the pressure differential just like a longer water hose will run faster because gravity is acting on a greater volume of water, the pressure pressure differential in a taller tub is acting on a larger volume of air. and once that larger volume of air gets moving it represents a stronger, more stable chain reaction.
-------------------- Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Quote:
DaveyJones6911 said:
Quote:
Inocuole said: Not gonna vote since I don't stack, but I feel like I've heard something about stacks of them forming some kind of.... weird... convection current that basically helps them all perform a little better. Can't think of the exact science that would support that but I'm interested nonetheless in people's responses.
i would suggest that the element that makes the difference is simply the distance between the holes. mono and double tubs are supposed to work on the principle of a pressure differential initiating a chain reaction of air movement. like siphoning water trough a hose, once it runs it keeps running.
so i think more distance between the holes increases the pressure differential just like a longer water hose will run faster because gravity is acting on a greater volume of water, the pressure pressure differential in a taller tub is acting on a larger volume of air. and once that larger volume of air gets moving it represents a stronger, more stable chain reaction.
Yes. Your understanding of this concept is correct. However, there is more than one force at work with in the dynamics of a monotub. Perhaps you should check my journals out.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21858216
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22038001
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
insanemike said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Often the weight of the above tubs will cause the imperfect lids to seal better on the lower ones. Poly will usually need to be dialed in to adjust for that.
So each level of the stack is individualized by the tightness of the polyfil?
Yes. Tubs on the bottom are dialed in looser than the top tub.
Thanks. That's exactly what I thought.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Quote:
stareatclouds said:
Quote:
insanemike said: The bottom tub should generate more heat than the top tub because the top tub has more exposure to the cooler outside air. This would mean that the rate of air flow should be greater in the bottom than in the top tub.
Wouldn't the heat generated always be the same since it's the living myc generating it via thermogenesis? It might generate more condensation since it's not benefitting from the huddling and sharing of heat though?
Pasty's point about the lids being tighter is a good one. Seems like it'd get way too wet like that. I'll monitor mine.
If the temperature around the tub increases, so does the air inside of the tub. The sealing of the lid allows less gas exchange and therefor more heat is generated. I'm not saying the tub above is effected by the tub below. I'm saying the tub below is effected by the tub above. Hot air rises and because of that, the tub closest to the floor is receiving cooler outside air than the tub at the top of the stack. There are more forces at play than some may think.
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oontribe

Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,570
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Cool info
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,887
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Quote:
insanemike said: If the temperature around the tub increases, so does the air inside of the tub. The sealing of the lid allows less gas exchange and therefor more heat is generated.
Agreed with the lid allowing less gas exchange and more heat buildup. Why does a higher temperature mean more air in the tub?
Quote:
I'm not saying the tub above is effected by the tub below. I'm saying the tub below is effected by the tub above. Hot air rises and because of that, the tub closest to the floor is receiving cooler outside air than the tub at the top of the stack. There are more forces at play than some may think.
Yes, agreed. I just thought the tubs below get warmer because they're insulated from the ones above. Do you not notice that a tub with stuff stacked on it has less condensation on the lid than ones without another tub on top?
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DaveyJones6911
Nonconformist


Registered: 09/08/15
Posts: 690
Loc: EU
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thanks i am way to high for that much math right now :P but i will definitely check those out later.
-------------------- Creativity is a dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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i never put much thought into it when stacking tubs, i know when i do oysters the ones on the bottom shelf(similar to stacked tubs) did slightly better but that could have simply been the room temp...cubes i couldnt' tell ya i rarely check for much of anything including harvest weight lol, one tub is more then i need the rest is just cause i'm a junkie
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Stacking Monotubs [Re: cronicr]
#22379056 - 10/14/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
stareatclouds said:
Quote:
insanemike said: If the temperature of the airaround the tub increases, so does the temperature of the air inside of the tub. The sealing of the lid allows less gas exchange and therefor more heat is generated.
Agreed with the lid allowing less gas exchange and more heat buildup. Why does a higher temperature mean more air in the tub?
I think I worded that wrong. I fixed it.
Quote:
I'm not saying the tub above is effected by the tub below. I'm saying the tub below is effected by the tub above. Hot air rises and because of that, the tub closest to the floor is receiving cooler outside air than the tub at the top of the stack. There are more forces at play than some may think.
Yes, agreed. I just thought the tubs below get warmer because they're insulated from the ones above. Do you not notice that a tub with stuff stacked on it has less condensation on the lid than ones without another tub on top?
It does but the substrate from the tub above generates heat also and some of that heat is transferred to the tub below.
Quote:
DaveyJones6911 said: thanks i am way to high for that much math right now :P but i will definitely check those out later. 
Please do. If you can catch up, I would love to have another perspective.
Quote:
cronicr said: i never put much thought into it when stacking tubs, i know when i do oysters the ones on the bottom shelf(similar to stacked tubs) did slightly better but that could have simply been the room temp...cubes i couldnt' tell ya i rarely check for much of anything including harvest weight lol, one tub is more then i need the rest is just cause i'm a junkie
cron, you crazy man. One day I'm gonna teach a thing or two about a thing or two. Haha
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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