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qman
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hostileuniverse said:
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qman said: China sold a micro position of US bonds, it's hardly worth mentioning. China buys US and Euro bonds to keep their currency weak, it's not about making a great investment.
They aren't going to dump US bonds, it would to counterproductive to their goal of being a exporting powerhouse.
China has sold 200 billion this year alone, that about 15% of their holdings, that's a lot, it's probably due to their wanting to prop up their economy, but as an economic powerhouse, it's hard to believe they didn't have other options
Time will tell what China does in the future, one thing for sure, they want a weak Yuan.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22404659 - 10/19/15 05:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said: >No tricks. Taxes are the only way to pay down our existing debt.
Sorry but that is no longer possible. Even if we taxed the middle class at 50% and the upper class at 90%, it would not be enough to pay it off and if interest rates shoot up, it may not be enough to pay the interest.
>If the debt to GDP ratio is going down, the country's debt situation is improving, even if debt is still going up
But it isn't. Obumble has more than doubled the debt but gdp has not doubled, its barely gone up. The rest is fake figures which you gladly accept as long as it supports liberal policy. Or lack of policy in 'bumbles case.
The US Treasury could, if they really wanted to, pay off the debt in one day. Congress has the power to mint a 10 trillion dollar coin if they wanted to. Obviously, there would be blowback from that, but one thing you can bet on is the United States will not default on its debt.
Most likely, there will be some kind of global debt reset event. The IMF is already talking about it.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22404678 - 10/19/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Debt reset? Wouldn't that be a default?
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qman
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22404684 - 10/19/15 06:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The funny thing is, even if the US ran a zero deficit in 2015, what would happen? The US Dollar would go soaring higher and really screw up US exports and financial markets, basically everything is on a relative basis.
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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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hostileuniverse said: Debt reset? Wouldn't that be a default?
A "default" is a technical term with a specific definition as it applies to credit ratings and sovereign debt. A "reset" could be positioned in many ways but you can bet the ranch it WILL NOT be classified as a technical default. That's the whole point.
The global investment community is not and will not rush in to invest in the Chinese Yuan. The US dollar is in no short or mid-term risk of being replaced as the global reserve currency. The US dollar is, on a relative basis, very strong right now. You're conveniently forgetting that.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22404723 - 10/19/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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KauaiOrca said:
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hostileuniverse said: Debt reset? Wouldn't that be a default?
A "default" is a technical term with a specific definition as it applies to credit ratings and sovereign debt. A "reset" could be positioned in many ways but you can bet the ranch it WILL NOT be classified as a technical default. That's the whole point.
The global investment community is not and will not rush in to invest in the Chinese Yuan. The US dollar is in no short or mid-term risk of being replaced as the global reserve currency. The US dollar is, on a relative basis, very strong right now. You're conveniently forgetting that.
It is, but the Chinese, the Russians and Iranians have been pushing to replace it, that should signal trouble ahead, but whayever
So debt reset is a default, doesnt really matter how you "define" it, isn't filing bankruptcy a default on a debt? 7, 13, doesn't matter, the creditors are getting fucked, right?
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
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hostileuniverse said: Debt reset? Wouldn't that be a default?
A "default" is a technical term with a specific definition as it applies to credit ratings and sovereign debt. A "reset" could be positioned in many ways but you can bet the ranch it WILL NOT be classified as a technical default. That's the whole point.
The global investment community is not and will not rush in to invest in the Chinese Yuan. The US dollar is in no short or mid-term risk of being replaced as the global reserve currency. The US dollar is, on a relative basis, very strong right now. You're conveniently forgetting that.
It is, but the Chinese, the Russians and Iranians have been pushing to replace it, that should signal trouble ahead, but whayever
So debt reset is a default, doesnt really matter how you "define" it, isn't filing bankruptcy a default on a debt? 7, 13, doesn't matter, the creditors are getting fucked, right?
LMAO!!! Have you seen the condition of the Russian Ruble over the last year? China wants a weak currency and I think we can all agree that global investors are not rushing in to buy the Iranian Rial.
China is facing environmental problems you probably can't even imagine. Some of their cities have air quality so bad you can't even walk a mile without a air filter mask on.
Russia has two things ... energy and weapons ... hard to see them as any kind of long term global economic threat. They can cause trouble for Europe with natural gas supplies, but that game is running thin and Europe will, within 5 years, have alternatives to their reliance on Russia.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22404793 - 10/19/15 06:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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LMFAO? You're taking the issue too lightly, there was a time when no one wanted to change the reserve currency, if this builds steam, it will cause trouble for America
As for the debt reset, defaulting on 18T will have consequences, that I'm sure of
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22404912 - 10/19/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said: that is no longer possible. Even if we taxed the middle class at 50% and the upper class at 90%, it would not be enough to pay it off and if interest rates shoot up, it may not be enough to pay the interest.
You just made that up, didn't you? We've been in this position before and came out of it just fine, until Reagan cut taxes and reversed the downward trend:

Quote:
Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If the debt to GDP ratio is going down, the country's debt situation is improving, even if debt is still going up
But it isn't. Obumble has more than doubled the debt but gdp has not doubled, its barely gone up. The rest is fake figures which you gladly accept as long as it supports liberal policy. Or lack of policy in 'bumbles case.
I just posted the data for you. If you disagree, can you please provide evidence that the data is based on fake numbers?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: that is no longer possible. Even if we taxed the middle class at 50% and the upper class at 90%, it would not be enough to pay it off and if interest rates shoot up, it may not be enough to pay the interest.
You just made that up, didn't you? We've been in this position before and came out of it just fine, until Reagan cut taxes and reversed the downward trend:

Quote:
Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If the debt to GDP ratio is going down, the country's debt situation is improving, even if debt is still going up
But it isn't. Obumble has more than doubled the debt but gdp has not doubled, its barely gone up. The rest is fake figures which you gladly accept as long as it supports liberal policy. Or lack of policy in 'bumbles case.
I just posted the data for you. If you disagree, can you please provide evidence that the data is based on fake numbers?
Well fuck, that's the problem isnt it? It is based on "real" numbers, like the unemployment rate is based on "real" numbers, it's all in how they present the data, good thing too, I guess
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Astral Pain]
#22404957 - 10/19/15 06:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Astral Pain said:
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paperbackwriter said:
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KauaiOrca said: Hillary and Jeb will bring even more big money into the political system if elected.
I love the idea of presidential candidates having to wear patches on their clothing at the debates that tell us where their money is coming from. The more money they get from one corporation, the bigger the patch.
Kinda llike Nascar drivers.

I heard that 77% of Bernie's donations were in the $200 or below category, and that would equal voters, as opposed to the handful of Hillary donors which gets he shit for votes. Her trump card is the media.
You could make the same comparison with Trump/Bush in regards to Voter Support/Donors. That's off the charts as well.
Lots of people have made that comparison. That's a big reason so many people like Trump. It might even be the biggest reason. He doesn't owe anything to donors.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If the debt to GDP ratio is going down, the country's debt situation is improving, even if debt is still going up
But it isn't. Obumble has more than doubled the debt but gdp has not doubled, its barely gone up. The rest is fake figures which you gladly accept as long as it supports liberal policy. Or lack of policy in 'bumbles case.
'Liberal policy'!?! Obama spent all of that money continuing Bush's policies! lmao!
What has Obama done that was Liberal? Anything?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22404983 - 10/19/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
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Astral Pain said:
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paperbackwriter said:
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KauaiOrca said: Hillary and Jeb will bring even more big money into the political system if elected.
I love the idea of presidential candidates having to wear patches on their clothing at the debates that tell us where their money is coming from. The more money they get from one corporation, the bigger the patch.
Kinda llike Nascar drivers.

I heard that 77% of Bernie's donations were in the $200 or below category, and that would equal voters, as opposed to the handful of Hillary donors which gets he shit for votes. Her trump card is the media.
You could make the same comparison with Trump/Bush in regards to Voter Support/Donors. That's off the charts as well.
Lots of people have made that comparison. That's a big reason so many people like Trump. It might even be the biggest reason. He doesn't owe anything to donors.
Goddam right buddy, you're last couple posts been spot on! When we gonna argue again? Lol
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
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Bigbadwooof said: Lots of people have made that comparison. That's a big reason so many people like Trump. It might even be the biggest reason. He doesn't owe anything to donors.
Goddam right buddy, you're last couple posts been spot on! When we gonna argue again? Lol
When I tell you why I think Trump is a fucking piece of shit?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22405012 - 10/19/15 07:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If the debt to GDP ratio is going down, the country's debt situation is improving, even if debt is still going up
But it isn't. Obumble has more than doubled the debt but gdp has not doubled, its barely gone up. The rest is fake figures which you gladly accept as long as it supports liberal policy. Or lack of policy in 'bumbles case.
What has Obama done that was Liberal? Anything?
Gave white people a lecture on "racism" because Michael Brown was a dangerous thug.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Well fuck, that's the problem isnt it? It is based on "real" numbers, like the unemployment rate is based on "real" numbers, it's all in how they present the data, good thing too, I guess
Can you tell us what's wrong with the numbers in the graph, or show us the debt/GDP numbers you believe are correct?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22405052 - 10/19/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
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Bigbadwooof said: Lots of people have made that comparison. That's a big reason so many people like Trump. It might even be the biggest reason. He doesn't owe anything to donors.
Goddam right buddy, you're last couple posts been spot on! When we gonna argue again? Lol
When I tell you why I think Trump is a fucking piece of shit? 
Okay that made me LOL, jerk...
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: LMFAO? You're taking the issue too lightly, there was a time when no one wanted to change the reserve currency, if this builds steam, it will cause trouble for America
As for the debt reset, defaulting on 18T will have consequences, that I'm sure of
You worry too much. The global economy is dynamic. It is relative in that America's debt problems are relative to Japan's and Europe's. The global economic community is not going to put their investment capital at risk in a big way in Chinese or emerging markets. The US is the best game in town and no one else is even close. We have the best capital markets, best legal system, best companies, best university system and smarter entrepreneurs.
Get to work ... make some money ... stop worrying.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: qman]
#22405131 - 10/19/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If the debt to GDP ratio is going down, the country's debt situation is improving, even if debt is still going up
But it isn't. Obumble has more than doubled the debt but gdp has not doubled, its barely gone up. The rest is fake figures which you gladly accept as long as it supports liberal policy. Or lack of policy in 'bumbles case.
What has Obama done that was Liberal? Anything?
Gave white people a lecture on "racism" because Michael Brown was a dangerous thug. 
Lip service aside.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22405136 - 10/19/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: LMFAO? You're taking the issue too lightly, there was a time when no one wanted to change the reserve currency, if this builds steam, it will cause trouble for America
As for the debt reset, defaulting on 18T will have consequences, that I'm sure of
You worry too much. The global economy is dynamic. It is relative in that America's debt problems are relative to Japan's and Europe's. The global economic community is not going to put their investment capital at risk in a big way in Chinese or emerging markets. The US is the best game in town and no one else is even close. We have the best capital markets, best legal system, best companies, best university system and smarter entrepreneurs.
Get to work ... make some money ... stop worrying.
fucking A rights, what you think I'm doing? And anyone fucking with that, is my enemy
"If it ain't about money, it ain't about me, I got Keyes, coming from overseas, cost a nigger 200 G's"
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