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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22409259 - 10/20/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
I see. So it's a form of educated betting, I guess. Currency trading has always seemed ridiculous to me. Converting your money when it's low, and trading back when it's high. Talk about unproductive wealth creation.
Derivatives are essentially a way for two people to bet on the direction of some kind of financial product without having to own that asset ... Just betting on direction allowing much faster movement which means faster and bigger gains or losses. They can be used in a lot of ways ... hedging losses for instance ... but the way the really big financial institutions use them puts them in the category of Financial WMD's.
Before the repeal of Glass Steagall, (Thanks, Bill Clinton!) there were strong restrictions keeping banks out of this kind of leveraged trading ... Sadly, the banks are so dug into this risky stuff that another financial crisis, worse than 2008/9 is a certainty.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
Posts: 939
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22409276 - 10/20/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Another lib wish-it-were-so fest. If wishes were horses all liberals would have a stable full.
Fal, you make things up like mad, claim things to be a fact that are not so and then I see you have gone back to making personal attacks again.
>I guess it's not surprising that a conservative doesn't understand math or economics.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
Posts: 939
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22409641 - 10/20/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seriously, I'm kind of crashed right now, but these polls do show Sanders hypothetically beating Trump in the GE. Hm...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22409870 - 10/20/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Fal, you make things up like mad, claim things to be a fact that are not so
I think you're lying - show us one example.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 44 minutes, 52 seconds
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Fal, you make things up like mad, claim things to be a fact that are not so
I think you're lying - show us one example. 
Lmao... prime example of false equivalence.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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You are the liar, just about everything you say is bogus
>Even if spending were cut to $0, the debt would continue to go up because of interest
False of course since we would still have income. Just for example, there are lots of others.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
Posts: 939
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Stonehenge]
#22410063 - 10/20/15 04:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stonehenge, gotta apologize, but factually speaking, most of what you write is speculative, even when partially fact-based. So... Don't let the wolf puff
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: You are the liar, just about everything you say is bogus
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Even if spending were cut to $0, the debt would continue to go up because of interest
False of course since we would still have income. Just for example, there are lots of others.
Great point! Now THAT'S how you should argue!!! I meant to say "Even if spending were cut to $0 and taxes were eliminated, the debt would continue to go up because of interest."
I'll always admit to being wrong if you can explain why (this is the first time I've seen you do it).
The debt to GDP ratio is still a lot more important than debt, because it shows whether or not you have the means to pay for that debt.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
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Quote:
The debt to GDP ratio is still a lot more important than debt, because it shows whether or not you have the means to pay for that debt.
Do really think the USA will ever pay off its debt?
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The debt to GDP ratio is still a lot more important than debt, because it shows whether or not you have the means to pay for that debt.
Do really think the USA will ever pay off its debt?
Given that only one president in the history of the country even attempted to do this and EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT left office with unresolved debt, it's unlikely. It really isn't necessary either. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Adams ... all increased the national debt.
You may not be aware that the Federal Reserve is also able to buy back debt, if the Congress wants them to. That debt would simply die on their balance sheet. And, interestingly, the Federal Reserve turns over most of their profits to the US Treasury on a yearly basis which, last year, was nearly 100 Billion dollars. The national debt is quite a bit more complex than nitwits that fall for slogans are aware of.
There are many options to deal with debt. Predicting an apocalyptic end to the US is an option only the most fearful and least informed (you?) anticipate.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22410863 - 10/20/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You confuse concern with fear, the US spends 225 billion every year on the interest payments alone, that's expected to double in a few years, but hey, debt doesn't matter, money isn't real, and unicorns live in bernies's basement,
***insert uniformed ignorant slogan here
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
Posts: 939
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Do really think the USA will ever pay off its debt?

But how many countries are 100% without defaults, especially with this populational boom?
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: You confuse concern with fear, the US spends 225 billion every year on the interest payments alone, that's expected to double in a few years, but hey, debt doesn't matter, money isn't real, and unicorns live in bernies's basement.
First, the unicorns were a brilliant touch haha
Seriously, though, money matters, the international debt matters, as does everything related to the administration. The political circus, however and to evereyone's disdain, seems to want it to burn all the time, so to really understand it and how it affects us, they would have to get too little entertaining.
This is a similar debate, with exceptions on all sides. I just want to ask, not ironically, if any of these candidates will be able to effectively and in a sustainable manner tackle the issue?
And foreign debt has been the subject here for a second now, and Sanders and Obama are commies, and Trump will save the world, that kind of circus-fire ambient.
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
Edited by Count of Sabugosa (10/20/15 08:01 PM)
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: You confuse concern with fear, the US spends 225 billion every year on the interest payments alone, that's expected to double in a few years, but hey, debt doesn't matter, money isn't real, and unicorns live in bernies's basement,
The rest of us here think excessive debt and wasteful spending is an issue ... we're just not naive enough to think that a Republican President will do anything about ... Debt increased under Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford ... nearly tripled under Reagan and GWB was an economic disaster.
You seem to think another GOP nitwit is the answer. Trump would surely increase debt to epic levels with his "great" plan ... LMAO!!!
Both sides are guilty, you're just not smart enough to realize it as you're busy swinging your pom poms for your side ...
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (10/21/15 05:11 AM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 44 minutes, 52 seconds
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22411613 - 10/20/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The debt to GDP ratio is still a lot more important than debt, because it shows whether or not you have the means to pay for that debt.
Do really think the USA will ever pay off its debt?
Given that only one president in the history of the country even attempted to do this and EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT left office with unresolved debt, it's unlikely. It really isn't necessary either. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Adams ... all increased the national debt.
You may not be aware that the Federal Reserve is also able to buy back debt, if the Congress wants them to. That debt would simply die on their balance sheet. And, interestingly, the Federal Reserve turns over most of their profits to the US Treasury on a yearly basis which, last year, was nearly 100 Billion dollars. The national debt is quite a bit more complex than nitwits that fall for slogans are aware of.
There are many options to deal with debt. Predicting an apocalyptic end to the US is an option only the most fearful and least informed (you?) anticipate.
I can see a potential apocalyptic scenario if we don't get a grip on a few things in our economy. The American economy just can't sustain this trend of wealth concentration. That's the real threat on many fronts.
It's a threat to democracy, as we all know. However, if you really think about it, you can't just keep increasing the 1%'s slice of the pie indefinitely. They're on track to own every scrap of equity and ounce of $ in this country within the next 100 years if trends keep up. That's not realistic, and they will break our economy before it ever happens, of course.
The time for redistribution is now, not later. The time to deal with climate change is also now. All of the things that have to be done will create incredible disruption in the current system, and nobody wants to face or deal with that reality.
The MIC is a great example of this. Dismantling the bloated military industrial complex will kill lots of jobs, and it will be painful.
The people in power want to kick this can as far down the road as possible, because once we start facing these realities, it will upset the incredibly good thing they have going.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22411804 - 10/20/15 11:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
The debt to GDP ratio is still a lot more important than debt, because it shows whether or not you have the means to pay for that debt.
Do really think the USA will ever pay off its debt?
Given that only one president in the history of the country even attempted to do this and EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT left office with unresolved debt, it's unlikely. It really isn't necessary either. Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Adams ... all increased the national debt.
You may not be aware that the Federal Reserve is also able to buy back debt, if the Congress wants them to. That debt would simply die on their balance sheet. And, interestingly, the Federal Reserve turns over most of their profits to the US Treasury on a yearly basis which, last year, was nearly 100 Billion dollars. The national debt is quite a bit more complex than nitwits that fall for slogans are aware of.
There are many options to deal with debt. Predicting an apocalyptic end to the US is an option only the most fearful and least informed (you?) anticipate.
I can see a potential apocalyptic scenario if we don't get a grip on a few things in our economy. The American economy just can't sustain this trend of wealth concentration. That's the real threat on many fronts.
It's a threat to democracy, as we all know. However, if you really think about it, you can't just keep increasing the 1%'s slice of the pie indefinitely. They're on track to own every scrap of equity and ounce of $ in this country within the next 100 years if trends keep up. That's not realistic, and they will break our economy before it ever happens, of course.
The time for redistribution is now, not later. The time to deal with climate change is also now. All of the things that have to be done will create incredible disruption in the current system, and nobody wants to face or deal with that reality.
The MIC is a great example of this. Dismantling the bloated military industrial complex will kill lots of jobs, and it will be painful.
The people in power want to kick this can as far down the road as possible, because once we start facing these realities, it will upset the incredibly good thing they have going.
The "rich" in Norway own almost just as much wealth per capita as the "rich" in the USA. More garbage slogans from a leftwinger-Bernie lowered the average IQ of democrats.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22412294 - 10/21/15 05:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
The "rich" in Norway own almost just as much wealth per capita as the "rich" in the USA. More garbage slogans from a leftwinger-Bernie lowered the average IQ of democrats.
Ike, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, GHWB, GWB ... all increased the national debt and, in fact, Reagan nearly tripled it at a time when we had no wars and debt typically drops.
The GOP talks a good game about fiscal responsibility but that's all it is ... talk and slogans. Reality is they spend, borrow and cut taxes simultaneously. That's their record, anyway.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22412346 - 10/21/15 06:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Trump is actually in line with much of what Bernie crowd supports. He has said he's gonna raise taxes on Wall Street and billionaires, just not the middle class. He has advocated fixing our trade deficit, bring jobs back to America,
The main difference is he's not willing to institute programs that are gonna bankrupt us further than we already are
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Trump is actually in line with much of what Bernie crowd supports. He has said he's gonna raise taxes on Wall Street and billionaires, just not the middle class. He has advocated fixing our trade deficit, bring jobs back to America,
The main difference is he's not willing to institute programs that are gonna bankrupt us further than we already are
You're gullible. Trump supported nationalized health care, corporate bailouts, corporate welfare of many types and he has absolutely no plan at all to bring jobs back to America I've seen beyond ... "I'm a great negotiator." He's already setting up an adversarial role with both parties in congress which makes it very difficult to get anything done.
Trump's a big talker, like a lot of GOP'rs are, but when it comes to reality, he'll be a big spender, borrower and tax cutter because that's what Republicans do. He'll just be more aggressive at blaming others for problems he can't solve.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Does Bernie Sanders have a chance? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22412637 - 10/21/15 08:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Trump is actually in line with much of what Bernie crowd supports. He has said he's gonna raise taxes on Wall Street and billionaires, just not the middle class. He has advocated fixing our trade deficit, bring jobs back to America,
The main difference is he's not willing to institute programs that are gonna bankrupt us further than we already are
You're gullible. Trump supported nationalized health care, corporate bailouts, corporate welfare of many types and he has absolutely no plan at all to bring jobs back to America I've seen beyond ... "I'm a great negotiator." He's already setting up an adversarial role with both parties in congress which makes it very difficult to get anything done.
"no plan at all to bring jobs back America"
Not true, tariffs and the deportation of illegals is a valid strategy. Whether he could accomplish that goal once President is another story, but he does have a plan.
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