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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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Why must there be a goal? Does light have a goal when it reaches a star? Does gravity has a goal when it pulls you close? maybe shit just is happening and then bam consciousness
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Arctic W. Fox

Registered: 09/23/14
Posts: 1,357
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Quote:
enlightened seed said: If evolution is indeed true then what is the ultimate goal of evolution?
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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no goal no intelligence no purpose and not a thing the word: 'evolution' is only used as label for a description of the behavior, of part of the physical universe, when chemical structure becomes complex enough to produce self replicating molecules.
To a human, 'living things', especially animals, appear possessed of agency. Hence they look for spirits in all 'primitive' cultures. Then myths are developed around these emotional responses to the anxieties of life. In complex 'civilized' cultures they call this 'Religion' and even take pride in such beliefs. "Civilized" folks don't believe trees, mountains, and rivers have spirits. But many believe in a deeply emotional way, many equally irrational 'things'.
But no humans or animals defy any of the laws of physics or chemistry and they all die and suffer during life.
This stark fact likely causes humans anxiety, which they repress, ignore and compensate for. No animal or plant is aware of it's mortality. Human's who are sensitive and pay attention must realize they are in a very vulnerable position; and every day, minute, and breath, are closer to death. Yet they fight, go to war, and constantly strive for power and compete, as if they were immortal.
Even in so called 'civilized' conditions, humans suffer and strive to reproduce before death. Some might even say that: Frequently the conscious mind of the average young adult human believes it is having sex for pleasure, and / or a wonderful relationship. Some years later they find themselves parents. The world population shows "evolution" is cleverer than the young horny "mind". Debate about how great a human population the earth can support is very silly. Starvation, horrific gehttos / slums and homelessness are found in all the big cities of the world. The world statistics on health, war, pollution, and poverty are unbelievable. Yet by 2050 the majority of the world's population will be living in cities. However sexual motivation, to copulate, is influenced by hormones such as dopamine, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, oxytocin, and vasopressin. This is how genes function, and they do it well. This brew is more potent than any 'drugs' and operates 24/7/365. Genes 'evolved' in environments, which were metaphorically more like the American West, 200 years ago, when infinite expansion seemed possible. Of course there was competition in environmental niches, but nothing like the world situation for humans today. But the ancient gene programing still rules.
The so called 'miracle' of 'awareness or consciousness' does not defy any laws of physics or chemistry. Despite any of our thoughts we usually seek pleasure and attempt to avoid pain automatically, we continually age and frequently die sooner than we expect; or don't die when we wish we could. Even those who calm thoughts with meditation and yet remain aware, still die, and obey the laws of physics and chemistry. I wonder was it mainly in America that the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi sold flying lessons?
It seems people who want the universe to be understandable, warm and fuzzy, or beautiful, or 'moral', or 'ideal' in some way, have a problem with many of the simple facts of our situation. And some of these people seem to think that if they argue against 'evolution' loudly enough, without having studied much science they can make the world comfortable for themselves again.
That even those who calm thoughts with meditation and begin to make a distinction between awareness and thought, still die; does not mean meditation is not an option in our situation worth pursuing. Given the stark facts it seems expanding consciousness, by whatever means, and being willing to question one's beliefs are among the better options.
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: laughingdog]
#22448808 - 10/29/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
No animal or plant is aware of it's mortality.
Hmmmmm, you sure? How would you know something like this? Plants very well know that they will die without sunlight or water, and that they're physical existence has a time limit on it. Plants stretch out of the shade and into the light, they reach their roots towards water sources. They don't just blindly send out roots and leaves in random directions, it is all purposeful. They reproduce, which implies that there is an acceptance that the individual within the system is not permanent.

you should read it.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: nuentoter]
#22450304 - 10/29/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here is a great video that gives factual information on plant behavior with a scientific focus highlighting a few interesting studies.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: nuentoter] 1
#22450789 - 10/29/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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FYI: All of the quasi-mystical stuff in SLOP has been debunked.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: nuentoter]
#22452197 - 10/30/15 04:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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if your argument for purpose, meaning, intelligence, or goals, in 'evolution' depends only on the notion of plants being conscious and aware of their mortality, against the mountains of experimental evidence that leads to the opposite conclusion ...
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 3 months, 24 days
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-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 6,220
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 4 hours, 1 minute
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: gnrm23]
#22478070 - 11/04/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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The goal of evolution is to evolve to keep discovering, everything in the universe evolves, the universe itself is so curious were all a forever expanding Neverending mess ball of curious imagination that whenever you discover the next step it becomes that much more complex
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Eclipse3130]
#22479308 - 11/05/15 02:38 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eclipse3130 said: The goal of evolution is to evolve to keep discovering, everything in the universe evolves, the universe itself is so curious were all a forever expanding Neverending mess ball of curious imagination that whenever you discover the next step it becomes that much more complex 
sounds like a comforting belief.
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eehoo
Stranger


Registered: 09/26/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 18 days
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: laughingdog]
#22479516 - 11/05/15 05:20 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
Eclipse3130 said: The goal of evolution is to evolve to keep discovering, everything in the universe evolves, the universe itself is so curious were all a forever expanding Neverending mess ball of curious imagination that whenever you discover the next step it becomes that much more complex 
sounds like a comforting belief.
sounds like a belief that led to us destroying earth, glorifying raping and pillaging more primitive cultures, and now to the point where we are looking for other planets to utilize in our machine. seems to me its a human disease and has nothing to do with evolution.
evolution is to exist. breath, eat, reproduce, fight, compete... to be human is to enforce morality. nowhere in the natural order of things does it promote constant progress. it's all about avoiding pain really.. many mammal hunter soak in the noon sun and have tons of leisure time (if fed and comfortable). so no, that idea of constant progress i believe is as a delusion and disease
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: eehoo]
#22479603 - 11/05/15 06:06 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Eehoo I appreciate your post because even if I may not agree with you about things, your viewpoints seem to come from an intelligent point. But damnable dude your views seem so bleak, and carnal. Hope you still got plenty of happiness and beauty in your life bro.
I think expansion of humans like eclipse is saying end up leading to discovery simply by the fact of population growth and human adaptability in nature. We get bigger as a population we must conquer new lands. Human competitiveness drives this as well. Like eehoo said, eat, reproduce, fight, compete. The imagination and curiosity eclipse speaks of is born from the time we have(instead of laying lazily in the sun like a lion we wandered and daydreamed and pondered) and our brain size. Very human.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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eehoo
Stranger


Registered: 09/26/15
Posts: 711
Last seen: 8 years, 18 days
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: nuentoter]
#22479660 - 11/05/15 06:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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"carnal"... google helped me out on that one. i would say all species are carnal. niggaz gotta eat
as for the beauty part, don't worry about it. no way for me to exist and society killed all good men. whiskey water sleep guitar ... waiting to grow these fucking mushrooms so i can think things over. i am bleak and self destructive but i don't really care so you do you and i do me. we all make our own decisions and mine is to dissolve into nature and go back to the earth peacefully some time in the near or not so near future. all i know is society is fucked and the gig is up... fuck the system fuck the government. Come find me pussies we can duke it out 1v1 with fists ... they aren't man enough though or have any honor. They pointed guns at honorable men and took their resources and inseminated their women
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Edited by eehoo (11/05/15 06:42 AM)
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Douglas Howard
Stranger
Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1,678
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Quote:
enlightened seed said: If evolution is indeed true then what is the ultimate goal of evolution?
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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The system of evolution is to ensure that life will not end. Can't place all of your eggs in one basket.
Diversity is security.
This is well documented and testable.
The random cleaving of DNA via high energy particles creating something better is laughable though.. Retroviruses maybe
Ever randomly changed one line of code in a billion line OS? BSOD or no effect.
Add the fact that only ovum/sperm pass genetic info, one of which is only produced once in a lifetime.
We actually have a name for cells with slightly changed DNA (transcription error or particle damage) .. CANCER
Consciousness (free will if you like) breaks all the cardinal rules of DNA.
Choose to not procreate. Or choose a mate than is same sex.
Choose to risk death for no 'good' reason (drugs, high speed driving, mountain climbing, jumping out of a functioning airplane)
Choose to ruin one's environment
Choose to kill oneself
list goes on....
We are the furthest thing from a good fit with evolution
Edited by Snazz (01/05/16 01:41 PM)
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Douglas Howard
Stranger
Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 1,678
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Snazz]
#22739643 - 01/05/16 12:54 PM (8 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Snazz said: The system of evolution is to ensure that life will not end. Can't place all of your eggs in one basket.
Diversity is security.
This is well documented and testable.
The random cleaving of DNA via high energy particles creating something better is laughable though.. Retroviruses maybe
Ever randomly changed one line of code in a billion line OS? BSOD or no effect.
Add the fact that only ovum/sperm pass genetic info, one of which is only produced once in a lifetime.
Consciousness (free will if you like) breaks all the cardinal rules of DNA.
Choose to not procreate. Or choose a mate than is same sex.
Choose to risk death for no 'good' reason (drugs, high speed driving, mountain climbing, jumping out of a functioning airplane)
Choose to ruin one's environment
Choose to kill oneself
list goes on....
We are the furthest thing from a good fit with evolution
I does believed that we are all suppose to mingle will with people of other nationalities in order to improve our lives and or change our diet from one pattern to another, like eating foods that has many different ingredients so that the body doesn't lacks nothing . I believed that a person that is fully mix becomes more superior than one that isn't mix at all. Like a person that get severely sun burn like an albino, in order to stop it for going on down to their next generation they need to mix with other race that doesn't has that problem, like the darker the berry, the better the juice, and that is the improvements that we need to learn. But by the way we think, we are destroying ourselves. But to get to the bottom of it, we need to teach the truth, because lies direct us in the wrong path. There are other information out there that tell us how we should live, but we ignores them because it doesn't help in our belief system. And that is the Diversity is security that i'm refer as securing life. But we think that we all has all the information that we need to go exploring.
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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I've taken that philosophy to heart I guess!
My healthy eye genes must replenish the Asian pool of defective ones
(sub-conscious reasoning for yellow fever)
"Nature finds a way"
Given time, we will all be brown (good South Park episode lol)
Edited by Snazz (01/05/16 01:50 PM)
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 2,117
Loc: amongst civilization
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Snazz]
#22740088 - 01/05/16 02:37 PM (8 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Snazz said: My healthy eye genes must replenish the Asian pool of defective ones
that's funny. if you decide to replenish the Asian gene pool with good vision you had better do research on the women you decide to breed with.
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Snazz
Polymath



Registered: 11/24/15
Posts: 1,584
Loc: Canada
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Starting with Japan and Thailand. Work my way to China. Think I will need a few more souls to help out
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 2,117
Loc: amongst civilization
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Snazz]
#22743513 - 01/06/16 10:55 AM (8 years, 25 days ago) |
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i'd help you out but then the offspring would be half white half asian
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