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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22394565 - 10/17/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You can't prove that to me...  You can only hypothesize it and then present substantiating evidence.

The point is that all proofs are only able to be proved under a set of postulates or axioms which are accepted for the sake of the proof.  In science all axioms and postulates are subject to being overturned in light of new evidence.  Thus nothing is "proven" in science.  The theory of evolution by natural selection being a theory is no shortcoming, its inherent in science.

"What the thinker thinks, the prover proves."


Edited by DieCommie (10/17/15 06:02 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: DieCommie]
    #22405216 - 10/19/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.adsavvy.org/understanding-the-human-herd-mentality/

"Researchers at Leeds University, led by Prof Jens Krause, performed a series of experiments where volunteers were told to randomly walk around a large hall without talking to each other. A select few were then given more detailed instructions on where to walk. The scientists discovered that people end up blindly following one or two people who appear to know where they’re going.
The published results showed that it only takes 5% of what the scientists called “informed individuals” to influence the direction of a crowd of around 200 people. The remaining 95% follow without even realizing it.

“There are strong parallels with animal grouping behavior,” says Prof Krause, who reported his study with John Dyer in the Animal Behavior Journal. “We’ve all been in situations where we get swept along by the crowd but what’s interesting about this research is that our participants ended up making a consensus decision despite the fact that they weren’t allowed to talk or gesture to one another… In most cases the participants didn’t realize they were being led by others.”
This is excellent example of how the human brain is setup for social life. Even without a top-down organizer or any obvious rules, society just falls into place. Unfortunately, that “follow the herd” mentality isn’t always beneficial. If we’re not fully versed on a subject, we tend to follow the guy who appears to know more than we do. That sort of behavior applies to more than just random walking, we do it in everyday life from picking political candidates to deciding what type of car to buy"

it would seem Humans are way too infatuated with their apparent cleverness. Stringing big words together proves nothing. Those who string arguments together without reference to experimental data tend to be those who pose as leaders and influence those incapable of critical thinking.

"Evolution" (not really a noun) is not a 'theory' any more than the
" 'theory' of relativity " is,
which is used to synchronize data on all GPS in phone and cars and satellites. Lives are saved with DNA evidence, which is a component of our understanding of the mechanism of evolution, but the evolutionary process itself is totally Amoral (not immoral) and mechanical in the sense of being agent free. Evolution maybe thought of as being seamless with the periodic table of the elements. If matter did not have inherent organization, chaos would be all there is, yet no one claims that 2+2=4 proves the existence of god. That arithmetic/math is logical no one finds surprising-it is obviously so. It cannot be otherwise. Math, the nature of space&time and their  rules of symmetry
determine the possible configurations of electron orbits (Bhor) or electron probability clouds (quantum) which determine all chemical reactions on which life is based. Folks on this board take 'shrooms', to re-experience the seamless purposeless connection of all with all.

Some people like to argue over what they think is ultimate. Frequently this takes the form of attaching to concepts such as purpose and
meaning. This seems silly. In a desert water is good, when being waterboarded it is bad. All concepts depend on context for meaning. Church, parents, philosophers, theologians, priests, etc want us to forget this. We have so internalized this mentality that our own thoughts judge us. First parents, then teachers, and clergy, attempt to domesticate children that bite each other out of instinct. Unfortunately they overdo the job and adults believe in standardized fictions of good & bad, purpose, & meaning. It takes a guy like Cassius Clay, the boxer, to renounce his boxing title and say: Why should I kill yellow people far away when blacks like me are oppressed at home. (Vietnam war era)
Most of us Americans swallow these silly moralistic and patriotic concepts and watch assholes like Billy Grahmm on TV, and think we're great.
This nonsense is so mentally parasitic that the majority of people in America have no appreciation for the raw facts of the nature of the physical universe.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22409056 - 10/20/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You can see evolution happen in real time by studying life forms with very short life spans compared to ours.  MRSA and CRE for example have evolved to resist anti-biotics.  Evidence for life goes back 3.5 billion years, it boggles our minds to think human beings came from microbial life but 3.5 billion years is a long fucking time.  A long time for things to happen and change.  Which is what it would take to have a human from a microbe.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Cognitive_Shift] * 1
    #22409567 - 10/20/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

but 3.5 billion years is a long fucking time




Not compared to waiting in line at the DMV.


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Offlineeehoo
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22409761 - 10/20/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
You can see evolution happen in real time by studying life forms with very short life spans compared to ours.  MRSA and CRE for example have evolved to resist anti-biotics.  Evidence for life goes back 3.5 billion years, it boggles our minds to think human beings came from microbial life but 3.5 billion years is a long fucking time.  A long time for things to happen and change.  Which is what it would take to have a human from a microbe.




That's different than the theory of evolution.., you're talking natural selection. And I do believe in small scale evolution but to deny divine intervention and a general plan from a creator seems flawed to me. I was brain washed by science as a kid but once I left school you start to think for yourself, and the whole theory of evolution is incomplete. I am interested in Ben Carsons new book he's going to write on how he believes in microbial evolution but not advanced life forms... Something like that. One thing is for sure...  WE DONT KNOW SHIT. Whoever claims they do is the fool


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22411070 - 10/20/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
MRSA and CRE for example have evolved to resist anti-biotics.  Evidence for life goes back 3.5 billion years, it boggles our minds to think human beings came from microbial life but 3.5 billion years is a long fucking time.  A long time for things to happen and change.  Which is what it would take to have a human from a microbe.




Meh, I went from two cells to a human being in 9 months.  :shrug:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: DieCommie]
    #22411157 - 10/20/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Why did you stop there?



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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22411538 - 10/20/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That is one scary looking alien.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22411806 - 10/20/15 11:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps the most famous /longest "real time" experiment in evolution is this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment

Quote "The E. coli long-term evolution experiment is an ongoing study in experimental evolution led by Richard Lenski that has been tracking genetic changes in 12 initially identical populations of asexual Escherichia coli bacteria since 24 February 1988.[1] The populations reached the milestone of 50,000 generations in February 2010 and 60,000 in April 2014.[2] Since the experiment's inception in 1988, Lenski and his colleagues have reported a wide array of genetic changes. Some changes have occurred in all 12 populations and others have only appeared in one or a few populations......."

https://www.bing.com/search?q=long+term+e+coli+experiment&qs=PA&pq=long+term+ecoli&sc=8-15&sp=1&cvid=cf612c7d90254bbaa38253099c9f653f&FORM=QBLH

but as you say we see it both in hospitals and insect resistance to pesticides as well. As well as in the Aids virus, etc. etc.


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Offlinenuentoter
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: laughingdog]
    #22411845 - 10/21/15 12:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Cool study that was a neat read.

I question eehoo's idea that a plan must be in place buy "the creator". I absolutely believe in God but I very much doubt he has any type of linear plan or map for all of this. I believe his blueprints for things lie more in systems and designs made to enable adaptation and perpetuation. Good doesn't draw the path a tornado takes he writes the physics that make out real.


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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know.  - @entheolove

"I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for"  - Georgia O'Keefe

I think the word is vagina


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InvisibleBobaJones
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Registered: 03/01/15
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: nuentoter]
    #22412020 - 10/21/15 12:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

To imply that there is a goal to evolution implies that genetic alterations must be a way of "improving." However, I think a more accurate way to look at evolution is merely "to change."

Not to become better than a previous model, because that model was the best for the corresponding environment. As environments change, living creatures must also change. The new adaptations may be better suited to its current environment, but they are not better were they applied to the previous environment.

It is like shaped pegs and holes. A cylindrical peg is well suited for a cylindrical hole, but over time there may be only square holes, in which only square pegs can fill the gap. The square hole is not an improvement for a cylindrical peg, nor can you laterally place the two with one as better than the other.

Is it simply adaptation.


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Woah


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OfflineCapuchin
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Registered: 10/21/15
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: BobaJones]
    #22415523 - 10/21/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Evolution seems slightly intelligent. It knows to make eyes out an organism to perceive light. It knows to adapt to changes in the environment. The goal of evolution might be to ameliorate the condition of all life in some crude and abstruse way. Humans are merely a byproduct of that goal in which we consciously make efforts to ameliorate our own condition.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: laughingdog]
    #22415663 - 10/21/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Perhaps the most famous /longest "real time" experiment in evolution is this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment

Quote "The E. coli long-term evolution experiment is an ongoing study in experimental evolution led by Richard Lenski that has been tracking genetic changes in 12 initially identical populations of asexual Escherichia coli bacteria since 24 February 1988.[1] The populations reached the milestone of 50,000 generations in February 2010 and 60,000 in April 2014.[2] Since the experiment's inception in 1988, Lenski and his colleagues have reported a wide array of genetic changes. Some changes have occurred in all 12 populations and others have only appeared in one or a few populations......."

https://www.bing.com/search?q=long+term+e+coli+experiment&qs=PA&pq=long+term+ecoli&sc=8-15&sp=1&cvid=cf612c7d90254bbaa38253099c9f653f&FORM=QBLH

but as you say we see it both in hospitals and insect resistance to pesticides as well. As well as in the Aids virus, etc. etc.



Dude this is fuckin' cool!


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22416628 - 10/22/15 03:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
If evolution is indeed true then what is the ultimate goal of evolution?



Free will ? :crazy2:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22420085 - 10/22/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
[.... fuckin' cool!




...."fuckin' cool!"...
Indeed it is

more mind blowing science ... geneics


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: laughingdog]
    #22422368 - 10/23/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The power of fractals :cool:
Like even our whole body developed just from one dna-string, our specieses developed only from one or a few ancestors.
Fascinating, thanks for sharing :thumbup:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22434433 - 10/26/15 12:45 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
maybe we are just an experiment in progress?




Maybe Earth is God's petri dish. Or an alien's petri dish.

Evolution is not conscious, its kinda like gravity. It behaves under its own laws, and cannot deviate from its own laws.

I believe that God designed the Universe to develop natural selection and genetic mutations, and thats why we evolve.

Survival of the Fittest :awesome:


--------------------
"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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Invisibleenlightened seed
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #22436796 - 10/26/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

you could be correct or you could be wrong.  no one knows :shrug:


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InvisibleTropism
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22438316 - 10/26/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

No, yet rational thinking would suggest to put about as much stock into that idea as Solipsism or all our all benevolent master the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


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OfflineArctic W. Fox
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Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: enlightened seed]
    #22438336 - 10/26/15 11:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

enlightened seed said:
If evolution is indeed true then what is the ultimate goal of evolution?






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