|
enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 2,117
Loc: amongst civilization
|
If evolution is indeed true. 1
#22367625 - 10/12/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
If evolution is indeed true then what is the ultimate goal of evolution?
|
White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
|
|
There is no goal.
|
Jufin


Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 5,116
Loc: Australia
|
|
My opinion: For all animals except humans - Continued survival of the species For humans - It varies
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,865
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: Jufin]
#22367678 - 10/12/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
if evolution is indeed true, then it is undirected and therefore has no end goal.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 2,117
Loc: amongst civilization
|
Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: ballsalsa]
#22367750 - 10/12/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
just seems like there would be a purpose
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,865
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
|
directed evolution would have a purpose, but that is essentially the argument behind intelligent design.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
|
|
Quote:
the object of a person's ambition or effort; an aim or desired result.
Goal is a bad word for a conceptual entity. Evolution is not a being with ambitions, efforts, aims, or desires. Not hating but it will confuse people with the wording.
The result of evolution is very complex because it has different contexts but ultimately adaptation seems to be it's result. Normally the adaptation is meant for survival and competitive advantage but people argue over this all the time with different theories.
Natural selection theories support the theory of adaptations being used for survival so most people agree on it.
-------------------- If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. - Paul Stamets AMU Teks Stro's Write Ups
|
enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 2,117
Loc: amongst civilization
|
Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: ballsalsa]
#22367800 - 10/12/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
maybe we are just an experiment in progress?
|
Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,342
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 9 hours, 11 minutes
|
|
There is no ultimate goal of evolution. None whatsoever.
There is a tendency for mutations created by ultraviolet radiation (the sun) to create slight variations which result in some being more suited to their environment and more likely to survive and reproduce. It is completely nonpurposeful.
Evolution is becoming increasingly less relevant to those who are most like the majority here. First, man made social structures protect the "less fit" and help them to survive and reproduce. Second, white Europeans and Americans are less interested in children and have been reproducing at below the replacement rate (which is 2 children per family). In agricultural society children are an economic benefit, both in terms of extra farm hands and providing for the parents in their old age. In industrial society, children are an economic liability (providing no economic benefits and needing costly education). And the parents generally get through old age on pensions and social security.
If you look at, for instance, a Mexican family that came here several generations ago, there is a general tendency to see less children in every generation.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
Edited by Brian Jones (10/12/15 11:48 AM)
|
Jufin


Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 5,116
Loc: Australia
|
|
Quote:
enlightened seed said: just seems like there would be a purpose 
Seems like your asking why does life evolve? Why does it want to keep it's species going? If life on earth started as a molecule replicating itself, perhaps to combat the chaos with something familiar.
|
Jufin


Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 5,116
Loc: Australia
|
|
Quote:
enlightened seed said: maybe we are just an experiment in progress?
Maybe we are just an eternal piece of dog turd floating on a puddle?
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
|
Maybe not a goal but an inevitable result: a singularity. There is actually quantitative evidence based upon calculations made establishing the law of accelerating returns that, all things being equal, a technological singularity is inevitable. This is a scientific, mathematically and empirically based principle. Granted, that would be cultural evolution, but if you include that in your definition of evolution then that is where it is headed (in an abstract way). There are more mystical versions of this theory (such as de Chardin's "Omega Point"), but this one is scientific.
Quote:
According to Ray Kurzweil, 89 out of 108 predictions he made were entirely correct by the end of 2009. An additional 13 were what he calls “essentially correct" (meaning that they were likely to be realized within a few years of 2009), for a total of 102 out of 108. Another 3 are partially correct, 2 look like they are about 10 years off, and 1, which was tongue in cheek anyway, was just wrong. Kurzweil later released a more detailed analysis of the accuracy of his predictions up to 2009, arguing that most were correct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil
http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 1 day, 1 hour
|
|
Hmm, there is evolution as far as learning goes..and most of the time its not just adaptation..but acquiring a skill..like if your a mosquito you learn to bit people in a certain way without dying..or if your a man you learn to cut wood and build houses...the other side of evolution is supposedly the adaptation argument..you walk toward what you think is a spring..and when you get there you see its a swamp with muddy water..in the future you will think differently about walking up in case your wasting your time..so your thoughts have adapted..too much that that is a bad event so changes your perception negatively..but i cant think of a better argument for adaptation...
Maybe you go out with an ugly girl..and then you go through a dark night of the soul..and realize that only good looking girls are honestly worth it..and if you have a child..she wont fear during her love inquests that she isnt well enough looking to attract a good looking guy..
so there is both sides..though considering evolution is normally about life..unless your David Bohm..then you can consider that because we are rational peace bearing creatures..that the goal of OUR EVOLUTION..is likely a world without suffering at all..
|
Skribe
The Overman


Registered: 10/10/15
Posts: 51
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: BrendanFlock]
#22369110 - 10/12/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Evolution is the spirit of god ascending into planes of existences, trying to reach the godhead . We are God playing the game of life, instruments of our own design.
-------------------- We're not in Wonderland anymore Alice. Charles Manson
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
|
Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: BrendanFlock]
#22369183 - 10/12/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BrendanFlock said: so there is both sides..though considering evolution is normally about life..unless your David Bohm..then you can consider that because we are rational peace bearing creatures..that the goal of OUR EVOLUTION..is likely a world without suffering at all..
What do you mean about David Bohm? Are you referring to the quantum potential? The guide wave?
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Quote:
If evolution is indeed true
then after 500,000,000 years, sharks would have friggin' lasers by now.
--------------------
|
LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
|
|
Quote:
enlightened seed said: If evolution is indeed true then what is the ultimate goal of evolution?
Carbon-14 tax.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
|
Quote:
enlightened seed said: If evolution is indeed true then what is the ultimate goal of evolution?
The game of chess seemingly has the goal for the players of winning. The game of chess itself has no goal. It doesn't care if we play. It could be played to let a child win, and have a good time. Or it could be played to distract ourselves, etc.
Goals are always dependent on context, or surrounding container so to speak. The universe, of course is uncontained, so it cannot have a purpose. It cannot win, lose, or make progress. Therefore all purpose within it is relative or contextual, in regards to local conditions. Also Time has no beginning, and everything has multiple causes, so no satisfactory statement can be made in regards to origins or ultimate cause(s).
If we refrain from attempting to think in ultimates we can study local conditions and get a good idea of what is going on. In the case of evolution one might start with Richard Dawkin's book "the selfish Gene".
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,865
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: laughingdog]
#22371306 - 10/12/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
laughingdog said:
Also Time has no beginning, and everything has multiple causes, so no satisfactory statement can be made in regards to origins or ultimate cause(s).
http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
|
Re: If evolution is indeed true. [Re: laughingdog]
#22371416 - 10/12/15 11:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ballsalsa said: if evolution is indeed true, then it is undirected and therefore has no end goal.
Your point begs the question of what we would even mean by direction, ends, or goals in different possible provisions. They can be seen conditionally in human existence. What about looking to the theory itself?
Darwin's Origin of Species is a work of philosophical naturalism as well as a gathering of empirical findings. It is suggested by this treatise, as I recall, that Darwin observed a human guided domestication of species, or artificial selection, and understood by analogy and observation what natural selection was.
His approach was arguably endoxic, as Aristotle had put it in his treatise on nature, a method of "working from the familiar" or common sense, a lucid and seemingly rationally guided observation as much as an empirical finding.
Granted H.D. Huxley, put it differently. In his words, "how stupid not to have thought of that?" Even though this mode of expression is the same idea that a thought could come in a lucid way, it is somehow parasitic (self beguiling perhaps) on that suggestion, more of an appeal to the arbitrariness of the observation, at the same time. This became important to what had to be an arsenal of arguments which does not suggest the lucidity of a natural philosopher's endoxic approach, but the arbitrariness of observation to a temperament of prevalent thinking or common sense (common dogma perhaps).
The typical polarization in a discussion of a "theoretical" basis of evolution stands to today, and as this occurs, that intellectual environment excludes any possibility of discussing Darwinism, outside a formal constraint of technical findings.
But I would say it is well suggestible that Darwin himself was a prime example of the lucidity of the natural philosopher. As Aristotle conveyed in his more technical arguments of his own treatise, physis (nature) was found in principle of distinction from nomos (nurture), and this principle of contradiction was what Darwin was relying on in a certain way that can be appreciated, and not as an absolute.
To the point, as we may still perceive it, Darwin's theory does not fail to suggest that Artificial selection, our nurturing, is a guidence of speciation which is indeed part of nature. It is not exactly removed, or exactly the same in essence as natural selection. But it is a provisional case of direction, and goals and explicit means and ends, to start with. It is central to human existence, and something we embody.
Of course talking about the being we are, a human being which is often exhibiting explicit goal oriented behavior, is not principally founded in such a principle, in this way of inclusion. No doubt our artificially guided, behavior tends to taper off into the arbitrariness of chimp politics, which is for the most part petty chest beating assertions. But it still stands to reason, we are quite goal motivated and no less part of nature. We only formally exclude the possibility of direction. For instance the chauvinism of social Darwinism, is a much different question than of how we do not find nurturing of direction in nature. It is a good question to ask, what does this suggest?
For now, I think of some choice words from Nietzsche's Zarathustra;
All beings hitherto have created something beyond themselves: and ye want to be the ebb of that great tide, and would rather go back to the beast than surpass man?
|
|