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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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does hell exist?
#22365398 - 10/11/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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does hell exist or is it merely used as a scare tactic to get people to believe certain things? i do not believe anyone really asked to be here. with that being said why would someone/something want to put people somewhere evil(if hell is an evil place)? sounds like a bad idea, putting people in a place which is evil
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Quote:
enlightened seed said: does hell exist or is it merely used as a scare tactic to get people to believe certain things? i do not believe anyone really asked to be here. with that being said why would someone/something want to put people somewhere evil(if hell is an evil place)? sounds like a bad idea, putting people in a place which is evil 
I used to know an old lady--a canny old girl--who once said to me: The older I get, the more I believe in the reality of evil and in the existence of the devil.
I think the older you get and the more you see, the more you hang fire on this question. I tend to think that, sure hell exists. But, it is certainly not what you or I or anybody else who hasn't been there thinks it is.
So, yeah, it exists. But it probably isn't eternal.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
Edited by champinhom (10/11/15 08:47 PM)
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



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if it does exist, hell that is. who decides who is invited?
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Peyote Road
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Of course hell exists, but it is important to understand that in truth in might not be how you imagine it to be.
For instance, most people simply assume there is a physical world made of real physical objects and then they extrapolate their ideas of heaven and hell based on the first assumption.
However, what a lot of spiritual people have said recently (and many ancients concur with this) is that the first assumption is actually false. Its more true to say that everything is made out of consciousness. There isn't a physical world in the way most people imagine it to be. So then it naturally follows that heaven and hell aren't what most people imagine them to be either.
In the 1990s the then Pope released a statement saying something to this effect and explaining that heaven was a state of union with God and hell was a state of separation from God. So they are sort of like states of being. One may gravitate toward either one right now, while still on earth. THe people who gravitated toward hell during their earthly lives are going to get even more hell when they die, and the people who gravitated toward heaven in their lives are going to experience a greater heaven when they die.
Quote:
if it does exist, hell that is. who decides who is invited?
In the words of C.S Lewis, the door to hell is always locked from the inside. He meant that people put themselves in hell by rejecting God, who represents the only good. Those who willfully choose evil and then refuse to repent or turn back even when confronted with their wickedness, are effectively sending themselves to hell.
I have even heard it stated that hell is a form of God's mercy, because for these people, being in heaven in the presence of God would be even more hellish for them than being in hell. Hell is effectively the furthest they can get from God and so God allows them to go there out of his great mercy.
A great book about heaven and hell is the Great Divorce by CS Lewis.
-------------------- The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra
Edited by Peyote Road (10/11/15 09:08 PM)
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

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Quote:
champinhom said: The older I get, the more I believe in the reality of evil and in the existence of the devil.
I can get behind this. When I study left handed paths such as Satanism I feel as if there is an evil with radiates from that, maybe it's from so many people putting so much energy into it that it becomes reality, I don't know. I also know some Satanists that are not evil, but do well.
I don't know if my mind has been conditioned to think this though because of being raised in a Christian home. I feel like whenever I am reading about left handed paths that I automatically associate it with evil, and then my mind is made up and I have a hard time seeing it any other way.
But there are some interesting near death experiences one can read about where people have experienced hell. One scenario I think might play out when we die, is the having a choice of heaven and hell. I think mankind is naturally selfish, and when we die we have a choice, but in order for us to choose eternal life (heaven) we must be humble and possibly admit faults before some great energy which judges us at the end our lives (God). Mankind is such a selfish creature, this is where hell come into play, because some people will be bitter even in the after life and choose not to humble themselves and right their wrongs, this causes them to be sent to hell for a period of time to mull things over. Maybe God is observing us in this hell to see if we learn our lesson, and if so then we are vanquished from "eternal damnation" but hey this is just one thought on the subject I have.
Oh yeah, I am not a Satanist in anyway, I just like researching why some people believe what they believe, I find that fascinating.
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Lucis]
#22365624 - 10/11/15 09:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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i often wonder why people believe what they do. i think it is kind of comical how no one actually knows the truth(whatever that means) but are so closed minded when it comes to certain topics.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

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I agree, which is why I find my God in nature where I don't see so many strings attached.
I want to understand why someone is a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Satanist, etc, so that I can better understand my fellow man and have more meaningful relationships with them.
-------------------- ©️
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Lucis]
#22365786 - 10/11/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fennario said: I agree, which is why I find my God in nature where I don't see so many strings attached.
I want to understand why someone is a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Satanist, etc, so that I can better understand my fellow man and have more meaningful relationships with them.
culture and/or upbringing maybe? i am not sure what to think about religion as i believe that there is a higher power than religion. i could go on for days on end so i am abruptly stopping when it comes to my opinion.
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muckamuck
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When consciousness goes underground at night we dream or we might have nightmares... I think it's likely that something similar happens when we die, but I don't believe anything is permanent. The afterlife could be a chaotic spectrum, the mind opens access to heaven and hell and we gravitate to whichever one we identify with more, or the one that is our karmic lot. Just speculatin,
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



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Re: does hell exist? [Re: muckamuck]
#22365846 - 10/11/15 09:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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death is inevitable.
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muckamuck
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So is life.. Actually the movie Jacobs Ladder is kind of what I see happening
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Peyote Road
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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Lucis]
#22365931 - 10/11/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fennario said: I agree, which is why I find my God in nature where I don't see so many strings attached.
I want to understand why someone is a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Satanist, etc, so that I can better understand my fellow man and have more meaningful relationships with them.
I find God in nature as well, but I found studying religions valuable in helping me find God in the human realm, which is where I initially could not find Him.
-------------------- The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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Quote:
Peyote Road said:
Quote:
Fennario said: I agree, which is why I find my God in nature where I don't see so many strings attached.
I want to understand why someone is a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Satanist, etc, so that I can better understand my fellow man and have more meaningful relationships with them.
I find God in nature as well, but I found studying religions valuable in helping me find God in the human realm, which is where I initially could not find Him.
i am still confused as to what "god" really is? i sure hope that all the people that believe in god are not brainwashed into believing something besides what they think. brainwashing has been very extensively used though out human history.
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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



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Quote:
enlightened seed said: does hell exist
You were born into it. Welcome to hell
Spanish Inquisition

Armenian Genocide

Japanese War crimes

American War crimes

Famine

Yes there is Hell WE have someone running our world that must be the devil
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Vitalux]
#22365997 - 10/11/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vitalux said:
Quote:
enlightened seed said: does hell exist
You were born into it. Welcome to hell
Spanish Inquisition

Armenian Genocide

Japanese War crimes

American War crimes

Famine

Yes there is Hell WE have someone running our world that must be the devil
there is a good possibility you are correct that we are born into hell!
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

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Quote:
enlightened seed said: i am still confused as to what "god" really is?
I was confused about what God was for many years, but the more I just went about living my life and trying to do well in all avenues of my existence the happier I was, the more I tried to figure out exactly what God was the more depressed I became.
-------------------- ©️
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Lucis]
#22366107 - 10/11/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fennario said:
Quote:
enlightened seed said: i am still confused as to what "god" really is?
I was confused about what God was for many years, but the more I just went about living my life and trying to do well in all avenues of my existence the happier I was, the more I tried to figure out exactly what God was the more depressed I became.
that is a good way of looking at things. for the last four years i have had auditory hallucinations that the doctors think(as do i) were brought on by stress. looking back at things i would say i was going crazy. things are getting better with time though thankfully. the things i have been going through just bring different thought to my mind. it has just made me wonder more about what there is after what we refer to as life.
Edited by enlightened seed (10/11/15 11:18 PM)
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Arctic W. Fox

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Quote:
enlightened seed said: does hell exist
Quote:
Chris Kelvin: Am I alive, or dead?
Quote:
Rheya Kelvin: We don't have to think like that any more. We're together now. Everything we've done is forgiven. Everything...
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halo
Tripper



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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Lucis]
#22366184 - 10/11/15 11:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think hell or some form of it definitely exists. The reason I think this is that I have been experiencing a version of it since my last bad trip a little over a month ago.
I am reminded of a quote from the move Waking Life, when the main character or someone is flipping through the channels on TV, and one of them is a preacher and he says:
In heaven you rise to the level of your fullness of love, in Hell you sink to the level of your lack of love.
I have previously risen very high in my level of love. Currently I'm in a state of lack of love far fouler than anything I could have previously imagined.
I have erred significantly, not by being a bad person per se but by committing many sins of omission and not working on myself. In truth, I have been quite selfish the past few years and I have avoided self-reflection at all costs. On a recent trip and subsequent plunge into a type of psychosis this has only been confirmed for me.
The worst part is that I now see my laziness coming back to me as a serious punishment. Whether dealt from God or my own psyche I'm not sure if it truly matters, my experience is the same. Nothing is as good as it was prior to this. Everything is worse. I have no appetite, food tastes worse, I don't know when to shit, I can't sleep for more than a couple hours at a time, I have constant headaches, my memory is atrocious, I have zero sex drive, I am only experiencing negative synchronicities, and also having very bad luck. Of course, it could be much worse, right now it's bad luck in a trivial way, flat tire here, tangled fishing lines there, lack of preparedness really. Not sure if it's hell but it's felt like it.
-------------------- All drugs should be legal
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



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Re: does hell exist? [Re: halo]
#22366198 - 10/11/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
halo said: I think hell or some form of it definitely exists. The reason I think this is that I have been experiencing a version of it since my last bad trip a little over a month ago.
I am reminded of a quote from the move Waking Life, when the main character or someone is flipping through the channels on TV, and one of them is a preacher and he says:
In heaven you rise to the level of your fullness of love, in Hell you sink to the level of your lack of love.
I have previously risen very high in my level of love. Currently I'm in a state of lack of love far fouler than anything I could have previously imagined.
I have erred significantly, not by being a bad person per se but by committing many sins of omission and not working on myself. In truth, I have been quite selfish the past few years and I have avoided self-reflection at all costs. On a recent trip and subsequent plunge into a type of psychosis this has only been confirmed for me.
The worst part is that I now see my laziness coming back to me as a serious punishment. Whether dealt from God or my own psyche I'm not sure if it truly matters, my experience is the same. Nothing is as good as it was prior to this. Everything is worse. I have no appetite, food tastes worse, I don't know when to shit, I can't sleep for more than a couple hours at a time, I have constant headaches, my memory is atrocious, I have zero sex drive, I am only experiencing negative synchronicities, and also having very bad luck. Of course, it could be much worse, right now it's bad luck in a trivial way, flat tire here, tangled fishing lines there, lack of preparedness really. Not sure if it's hell but it's felt like it.
i have been going through something similar. stick in there brother, things will either get better or worse(depending on the choices you make for yourself). i wish you the best of luck.
Edited by enlightened seed (10/11/15 11:33 PM)
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

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Re: does hell exist? [Re: halo]
#22366215 - 10/11/15 11:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't mean to sound rude, but are you wanting your world to be better? Reason I ask is sometimes we cannot find happiness when we are always wanting something, want can lead to being miserable. If we can be happy with what we have, which is often times easier said than done, we can rise above much of the negativity which tries to permeate out lives.
My life is no cake walk, in fact when I say that to you, I am saying it to myself just as much because I too get fixated on want of a better life so much so that I forget how much I have been through, and how grateful I am for the little bit I have now.
Just a thought.
-------------------- ©️
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Skribe
The Overman


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If yOu understand Reincarnated Then we are almost in heaven And almost in hell Humans top of the food chain if we don't asend spirituality In this life when we die w go back to the botto the wheel of life keeps turning the Beatles
-------------------- We're not in Wonderland anymore Alice. Charles Manson
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Skribe]
#22366292 - 10/12/15 12:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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human are far more advanced biological, than any other form of life.
Edited by enlightened seed (10/12/15 12:09 AM)
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withoutlabel
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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Skribe]
#22366297 - 10/12/15 12:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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The only hell that exists exists for those that make their own lives it in this life.
And maybe selfish consciousness that wish to ascend physicality and yet also able to indulge in it's pleasures. Enjoy being a incorporeal voice in someone's head that can only touch a teenth of their senses, sounds like a great time.
Fire and brimstone interpretation? I doubt it.
Quote:
enlightened seed said: human are far more advanced biological, than any other form of life.
Bullfuck. On which metric? Intelligence? Whales and crows have us beat, possibly. Communicatively? Maybe but whales may still have the higher hand (telepathic/audiographic imagery? we are capable of but few of use are "tapped in" to make use of it). Memory/teaching? Again crows beat us out, they are able to describe the faces of humans antagonistic or helpful to successive generations and those generations are able to be antagonistic or passive in return (seriously, try teaching your children this without physical pictures, impossible), etc. etc.
The only areas in which we know humans truly shine is endurance running and tool creation. Whoop.
tl;dr, whales and crows (and even certain spider species at the least!) are more intelligent than we are
Edited by withoutlabel (10/12/15 12:19 AM)
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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Quote:
withoutlabel said: The only hell that exists exists for those that make their own lives it in this life.
And maybe selfish consciousness that wish to ascend physicality and yet also able to indulge in it's pleasures. Enjoy being a incorporeal voice in someone's head that can only touch a teenth of their senses, sounds like a great time.
Fire and brimstone interpretation? I doubt it.
you must have been an alter boy?
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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you wanted the preacher to lay pipe to you, didn't you? were you molested?
Edited by enlightened seed (10/12/15 12:20 AM)
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withoutlabel
Stranger

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Quote:
enlightened seed said: you wanted the preacher to lay pipe to you, didn't you?
Oh god yes, lay the pipe to me; the concept of being the downfall and temptation to one's moralist vows gets me off.
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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go back to school.
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Skribe
The Overman


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Animals have us beat because they embrace life but they can't rationalize it, they don't understand it like us big brained apes you must pick from the tree of life and the tree of Knowledge to understand the truth and the life to enter heaven
-------------------- We're not in Wonderland anymore Alice. Charles Manson
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withoutlabel
Stranger

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Quote:
enlightened seed said: go back to school.
Are you going to be my prof? I have been so, so neglectful of my assignments. It's just that I have such a hard time concentrating while watching you. You're such a good professor and I would hate to bring down your scores..
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Skribe]
#22366347 - 10/12/15 12:30 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Skribe said: Animals have us beat because they embrace life but they can't rationalize it, they don't understand it like us big brained apes you must pick from the tree of life and the tree of Knowledge to understand the truth and the life to enter heaven
do animals go to heaven or just big brained apes?
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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Quote:
withoutlabel said:
Quote:
enlightened seed said: go back to school.
Are you going to be my prof? I have been so, so neglectful of my assignments. It's just that I have such a hard time concentrating while watching you. You're such a good professor and I would hate to bring down your scores..
do as you please.
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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Loc: amongst civilization
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Quote:
withoutlabel said:
Quote:
enlightened seed said: go back to school.
Are you going to be my prof? I have been so, so neglectful of my assignments. It's just that I have such a hard time concentrating while watching you. You're such a good professor and I would hate to bring down your scores..
then stop watching and do something else with your time.
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Skribe
The Overman


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Big brained apes can't asend into higher dimentions only spirituall beings can mho
-------------------- We're not in Wonderland anymore Alice. Charles Manson
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enlightened seed
Utopia is a state of mind



Registered: 05/04/07
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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Skribe]
#22366425 - 10/12/15 01:06 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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what makes an individual capable of being spiritual?
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Skribe
The Overman


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Free your mind is basic my all I can think of once you do that you let God/life fill you up you'll be like born again Jesus said we must be as like children to enter the kingdom of God I think the kingdom is here we just can't see it yet well most of us can't
-------------------- We're not in Wonderland anymore Alice. Charles Manson
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Sillycybe43
Seeker


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There most certainly is a hell... But it's no where near what anyone thinks it to be, it like everything else in the universe it's a, for lack of a better term "state of consciousness". In both the scientific and spiritual sense, the chemical makeup within your brain determines a lot of how you feel, this make up at any one time is determined by the previous experiences and you choose to remember having in your life and also the way you choose to feel about them which is your emotional body.
So therefore if one chooses to feel negatively about there past it leads to an unimpressive present which the only way one can go is aiming downhill leading to more self destruction and ending up stuck living in the worst thoughts and feelings they can conjure up therefore there intent leads to a lot of the experiences coming to play out (hell).
The real question one shood be asking is how does one escape the clutches of hell, cos how can you know what you don't know? Haha realizations and epiphanies are and incredible force of the subconscious self that's for sure. But once realising one CAN be hell, one CAN be heaven or of a blissful nature, and that's really what it boils down to, we have free will of our selves which has no reason to be taken away after death haha so choose to be happy and it will lead you to realise the true size of what a human is 
Could go on for ever about this but so could everyone else so this will have to do for now, goodnight everyone!!!
-------------------- Choose not of the eyes that lead you, but of the eye that guides you. ***lookimg to play trades in aus, pm me with what you got and I'll do the same!!***
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Skribe
The Overman


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The mind is a devil's trap, a labyrinth with demons around each corner. Stray but a little and you will fall, to the ruin of all.
-------------------- We're not in Wonderland anymore Alice. Charles Manson
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Douglas Howard
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Quote:
enlightened seed said: does hell exist or is it merely used as a scare tactic to get people to believe certain things? i do not believe anyone really asked to be here. with that being said why would someone/something want to put people somewhere evil(if hell is an evil place)? sounds like a bad idea, putting people in a place which is evil 
It is a realm where things that are not useful goes. Only good things produces, but bad things leads to death, nothingness.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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HELL>.OMG?!?!
Well you have to be pretty much spiritually retarded to get stuck in hell..most go through the bardo and become reincarnated or go through images that are barely conscious or focus on various parts of their life story..
Much more like Limbo..
Though Hell of course does exist..its used by Very powerful Wizards or Shamans..who have chosen the negative side of life..when these people encounter Young or Naive people and invite them to learn magic or something..then this is when they strike..they can literally walk through hell as a planeswalker..while forcing suffering on the younger mage so to speak..
The worst events in History are committed by the Dons..who are so powerful that they can essentially almost do anything with matter..and if they get bored or get high on being negatively powerful they can pretty much fuck up your world so to speak..Im lucky as a Don..that I believe in Compassion etc..and Will have a Wife when I gain extreme amounts of power..most couples can refine and balance each other out...which is a merging quality with existence and nature for example..and in saying that they can learn to live with compassion and power at the same time..
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s240779

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Quote:
Peyote Road said: However, what a lot of spiritual people have said recently (and many ancients concur with this) is that the first assumption is actually false. Its more true to say that everything is made out of consciousness. There isn't a physical world in the way most people imagine it to be.
Doesn't really make sense. Multiple people experience the same physical world.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



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Re: does hell exist? [Re: s240779]
#22371712 - 10/13/15 02:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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God is at play with God.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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aciddrop
Lich King



Registered: 07/08/14
Posts: 470
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Quote:
enlightened seed said:
Quote:
Vitalux said:
Quote:
enlightened seed said: does hell exist
You were born into it. Welcome to hell
Spanish Inquisition

Armenian Genocide

Japanese War crimes

American War crimes

Famine

Yes there is Hell WE have someone running our world that must be the devil
there is a good possibility you are correct that we are born into hell!
Looks like hell is something created by the sheeple of the Right Hand Path in order to make man step in line. Hell is whatever you make it out to be.
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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 2,695
Loc: Canada
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Re: does hell exist? [Re: aciddrop]
#22372949 - 10/13/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
aciddrop said:
Looks like hell is something created by the sheeple of the Right Hand Path in order to make man step in line. Hell is whatever you make it out to be.
I often ponder this question ....if hell is whatever one makes it out to be.
Lets consider some basic facts;
1. We come into this world (dimension)completely helpless with no sense of memory of who and what we were before we arrived.
2. In order for us to exist each day in this dimension Earth we have to eat, kill, or displace something which is already alive and for the most part conscious.
3. Shortly after we are born we are registered as slaves (aka citizens)whereby we appear to have sworn an allegiance to a corporation (Government)and or Monarch without first understanding what we have done or agreed to. Once registered we lose our human rights and for the most part are unable to un-citizen ourselves unless we become slaves of another corporation (country).
4. We truly are unable to own any land or possessions that can not be taken away from us.
5. We have to pay taxes
6. We are forced to take vaccinations as children which clearly contain ingredients that make us sick, and diminish our intellectual capacity to assess our higher intellectual capabilities.
7. Rat poison (sodium fluoride) is put in our drinking water and is not part of our food chain due to this addition to the water supply.
8. We are forced as children to go to school where we are taught many untruths. The system is designed to misinform more than to inform.
9. We have prison systems which are cruel and do more harm to an inmate than good.
10. We live in a dimension which for the most part thrives on war. All throughout human history it is just one invasion and pillage to the next. All one has to do is look at the history of the United States. All they do is invade, manipulate and make war with the rest of the world.
11. Even the major religions of the world encourage hate, mistrust, and war with each other. Consider Christianity for example promoted slavery and murder.
12. We are born into a caste system whereby it is very unlikely we shall ever get out of. The rich get richer while the poor get poorer. Over 75% of the people live in poverty.
Yes, in my mind, we seem to have been born in a kind of hell already, and perhaps the question is, what do we need to do to get out and not have to come back?
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: does hell exist? [Re: Vitalux]
#22373008 - 10/13/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's a very incisive and well-made list. 
Check out saenchai's Forced Reincarnation thread for some insights and options on how to break the cycle.
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