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OfflineGoddess of Beauty
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URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor)
    #22363446 - 10/11/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I am currently preparing Ayahuasca, can I add sugar both in the P.Harmala & M.Hostilis?

The last time I took it was so hard to intake. Can I add sugar or it'll change the effect and should I not put sugar at all?

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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Goddess of Beauty]
    #22363455 - 10/11/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I wouldn't eat sugar with a maoi


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InvisibleP-O
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: mrbart4444] * 1
    #22363486 - 10/11/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

i dont think its a issue.  I could be wrong tho

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OfflineAldous
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: P-O]
    #22363750 - 10/11/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That should be no problem. I've had ayahuasca with a sugary taste, and even some kind of very sugary ayahuasca paste, which tasted quite good actually. I've also heard of ayahuasca honey, I bet that's sweet as can be. Don't overdo it though.

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InvisibleJacobStorm
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Aldous]
    #22363936 - 10/11/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Why would some one do this?


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InvisibleP-O
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: JacobStorm]
    #22364642 - 10/11/15 05:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

prob to fight the bitter alkaloid flavor

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OfflineSabnock
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: P-O]
    #22365825 - 10/11/15 09:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with adding a little bit of sugar or honey to a Mimosa or Rue tea, ime.


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OfflineAndros75
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Goddess of Beauty]
    #27298543 - 05/07/21 11:33 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

No No nooo

When taking any substances like ayahuasca with MAOIs, you must have a rigorous diet even days before taking it.
Do not add anything and keep the strict diet for at least another day.

With MAOIs, Tyramine is assimilated and could potentially be very harmful. Tyramine is in many food.

Please read chapter "The Shipibo Shamans' diet" of Anandayana Manual. You can download it for free at www.anandayana.org

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OfflineAndros75
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Sabnock]
    #27298552 - 05/07/21 11:38 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

be careful to Tyramine!!!

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OfflineSabnock
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Andros75]
    #27298599 - 05/07/21 12:26 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

^ Seriously? That is incorrect. Harmalas are RIMA's, not MAOI's, therefore no need to avoid Tyramine. I personally consume Harmalas on a daily/regular basis for months on end, i even eat a full on dinner right after taking Harmalas, i've never avoided foods or dieted.

Harmalas only inhibit MAO-A, they don't inhibit MAO-B, the MAO-A inhibition is reversible, meaning Tyramine can be metabolized by MAO-B and can displace the MAO-A inhibition if need be, plus the Harmala's gut and liver MAO-A inhibition only lasts about 2 hours max. Therefore, it's impossible, and i do mean impossible, to have a Tyramine reaction with RIMA's, like Harmalas or Moclobemide.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Sabnock]
    #27298601 - 05/07/21 12:28 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

As for the OP, and to reiterate my original comment on here, i've consumed sugar with my Aya more often than not, there's nothing at all wrong with sugar and Aya. Also, sugar doesn't contain Tyramine Andros75.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Sabnock]
    #27298607 - 05/07/21 12:32 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

In fact, i recently dove back into the Harmalas again, i've been taking 200mgs of full spectrum Rue extract everyday since April 20th, i've eaten before, right after, and hours after taking it, i've even taken it and went to eat at applebees with my girl and had beer on top of it, no problems what so ever. No nausea or vomiting, no Tyramine issues, no issues at all.

And again, it's not just me, i'm just giving my own personal experience and what is backed up by the science. Although i wouldn't recommend drinking alcohol on top of Harmalas, but ime, it can be done.


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OfflineIcon
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Sabnock]
    #27299131 - 05/07/21 06:33 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sabnock said: only lasts about 2 hours max.



I've had numerous enhanced DMT trips and re-dosed DMT fumarate 3-12 hours after harmalas; can confirm inhibition lasts at least 12 hours for me. Whether or not it affects diet, it could definitely interact with some people's medications if taken within 12 hours of harmalas IMO.

My Aya buddy years ago had a dark beer on Aya and was found on a bathroom floor in critical condition, he says he feels like he almost died that night, reported a severe headache on top of the trip. I think you're probably right about tyramine and rimas, but I'd definitely avoid alcohol out of caution.

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OfflineSabnock
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Icon]
    #27299228 - 05/07/21 07:35 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Well when i first tried Alcohol on top of Rue, i myself had a hell of a headache, for me i put it down to the vasodilation from the beer and vasodilation from the Rue, i had tried beer, vodka, as well whiskey with the Rue, all same result. That was a few years ago. Within the last couple years i've tried it again with beer, as well as whiskey, as well as tequila, and all those tries did fine, no headache, but, i usually take the Rue regularly/daily and build up the reverse tolerance which does away with the side-effects and so that could have something to do with it, like the headache potential went away when the side-effects did. So even with full MAO-A inhibition (like heavy heavy dosages of Rue) the Alcohol went fine with it, but i also didn't drink too much Alcohol, just enough for a buzz. Overall, i wouldn't recommend the combination personally, but it is doable ime. Also in terms of vasodilation, i've been trying out some Arginine, as well as Citrulline lately, and i've had those in my system when taking Rue and there doesn't seem to be any headaches or anything, so maybe the Rue's side-effects being gone has something to do with the no headache thing or maybe it's because Harmalas inhibit Acetylcholinesterase which can also cause headaches and your body has to get used to it for the side-effects of those inhibitors to go away, which probably is one part of the side-effects that go away when building up the reverse tolerance and consuming it regularly.

IME with oral DMT, the gut's MAO-A inhibition only lasts about 2 hours, if i miss the timing window for the gut's MAO-A inhibition, the DMT dose will be weak or won't work at all. If it was common or normal for the gut's MAO-A inhibition by Harmalas to be longer in duration, there would be far less people out there complaining about DMT not being properly activated and all the guesswork of when to take the DMT for it's full bioavailability.

It's possible that you could have a lower amount of CYP2D6, which metabolizes the Harmalas, and that could extend the duration as well as increase bioavailability of the Harmalas. Similarly, one could take a CYP2D6 inhibitor (particularly a potent one, if one can find it) and time it right between the inhibitor and the Harmalas so that the Harmalas are consumed when CYP2D6 inhibition is at it's strongest, and it should potentiate the Harmalas in terms of potency and duration. Idk if i have an average amount of CYP2D6 or not, but usually duration for me, depending on dosage, is about 6 to 8 to 10 to 12 hours of Harmala effects, but as far as the DMT goes, the gut's MAO-A inhibition for me has only ever lasted the first couple hours, that 3rd hour mark (2 full hours after the Harmalas) is also when my chances of nausea/vomiting go away, like it stabilizes. Also, Harmalas only have a half-life of like a few hours, i think like 3 or so, so it would make sense for the gut's MAO-A inhibition to be short lasting. MAO-A in the brain may stay inhibited for longer though, idk about that though.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Sabnock]
    #27299231 - 05/07/21 07:36 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

So you've been able to just take one dose of Harmalas and then like re-dose oral DMT hours after? If so, that's really cool, i wish that was the norm. Usually people have to re-dose both the Harmalas and the DMT to get a re-dose of DMT.

But yes, definite drug to drug interactions, so people need to be careful with that. But as far as diet goes, people will be fine.


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Bloomer
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Sabnock]
    #27299253 - 05/07/21 07:57 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sabnock said:
So you've been able to just take one dose of Harmalas and then like re-dose oral DMT hours after? If so, that's really cool, i wish that was the norm. Usually people have to re-dose both the Harmalas and the DMT to get a re-dose of DMT.

But yes, definite drug to drug interactions, so people need to be careful with that. But as far as diet goes, people will be fine.



There could be many factors. I take >100mg doses of DMT fumarate so if there's even a shred of inhibition that may be enough? I've also taken additional harmala when re-dosing and that's definitely stronger than not taking more harmala, so it likely starts wearing off within a couple hours of metabolizing. I have a theory that stomach fullness could be a major factor too. One of the weakest trips I had was on top of a full meal, it took 2-3 hours for it to even start, and that's why I re-dosed. I think the harmala was delayed for a couple hours until my stomach got to it?

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OfflineSabnock
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Re: URGENT: Can I add sugar in Ayahuasca? (DMT/Inhibitor) [Re: Icon]
    #27299766 - 05/08/21 07:19 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah ime when i've taken DMT at the tail end of the MAO-A inhibition, it'll still work but it seems reduced in potency/effect, but that's usually around an hour and a half to two hours after the Rue, after that i get no effect from DMT. One interesting thing i've noticed though is if i take mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT around 2 hours after the Rue, i tend to get some different effects compared to taking them 30 minutes to an hour after the Rue, i've had 4-ACO feel like oral DMT, smoked DMT, and mushrooms (actually felt more mushroomy than actual mushrooms believe it or not, idk why), all in the same trip too, but since they're already orally active the time frame doesn't seem to matter much although i have noticed more proper potentiation if consumed at the same time i consume DMT at.

Stomach fullness and digestion definitely can play a role, anytime i've had food in my stomach it's thrown off the timing and absorption of the Harmalas and DMT, so i recommend taking it on an empty stomach, although eating a small little something after taking it can sometimes help kick things in, but i prefer to wait to eat till after i'm back down.

I'll never forget the time though i took my Rue and some Mimosa residue capsules, and because i was on a high dose of Zantac at the time for heartburn, my digestion was a bit slow/sluggish, so when things didn't really kick in i thought it was gonna be a dud and just ate my dinner and was gonna just go to bed, but after i ate, while watching tv, it started kicking in and hit me like a freight train, so digestion can definitely play a role in how efficiently things kick in.


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