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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
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This shits retarded
#22357469 - 10/10/15 02:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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My friends called me stupid for thinking that a generic drug with the same amount of actives as the brand name are the same. Everyone thought I was stupid even though I explained it pisses me off
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Amanita86
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Registered: 09/26/12
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Generics have a little more leeway in terms of the ingredient's measurements. Brand name has to "be", generics just 'represent' the brand name recipe.
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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Burke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: Amanita86]
#22357495 - 10/10/15 02:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've really looked into this myth, and don't get what people are saying. My whole "drug career" I've heard people say that the generic can have +/- 20% of the active medication. The FDA claims in no uncertain terms that that is NOT the case. I've read an article published by them that addresses this legend, and it states that if the brand name makes a med that is, say, 100mg, the generic must also be exactly 100mg, not anywhere from 80-120mg. Over the years here I've asked so many people to link to a reputable & scholarly article that says generics are allowed to do that, no one can find one. And if you think about it for a moment, it doesn't make sense that this would be the case.
Unless I'm misreading what you guys are talking about. The OP is a bit vague, but it seems to me that he has it right.
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The Moose
Alces alces


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Yea I feel like there is no way something as regulated and prescription drugs could vary in a degree that much.
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Burke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: The Moose]
#22357509 - 10/10/15 02:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's one of those drug myths that everyone repeats as fact without looking into it, and it's absurd.
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The Moose
Alces alces


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Yea I used to be really into pills and there's just no way. IME generics are the same as name-brand pharms. Its funny how shit like that gets around though
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
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Links?
I was never heavy into pills, it's something I heard covered on NPR. Crystal G (I know) got into a debate about it and linked up a few things that seem to have stuck in my memory as 'trustworthy' sources... I think it was a thread from years ago, I may have been looking up a dead guy and found that whole convo..
It's one of those things where I guess I haven't personally felt the need to iron it out much further than I have so far since I'm not real big on pills.
What article that you found irons it out?
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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SunnyD
WiZarD oF LoVe



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Quote:
Rebelutionsssss said: My friends called me stupid for thinking that a generic drug with the same amount of actives as the brand name are the same. Everyone thought I was stupid even though I explained it pisses me off
your friends sound stupid
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        And to everyone who thinks life is just a game, Do you like the part you are playing? This is the time in life I am living! And I face each day with a smile My music Library of Synthesizer goodness
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The Moose
Alces alces


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Re: This shits retarded [Re: Amanita86] 1
#22357535 - 10/10/15 03:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would find it hard to believe there are pharms out there that vary in dose by as much as 20%
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Gorlax



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Re: This shits retarded [Re: The Moose]
#22357541 - 10/10/15 03:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Absolutely false. 20% is an insane amount of variation for anything. They don't build bridges that have 20% chance of collapsing so they aren't making pharms that are 20% weaker/stronger.
I've studied this law for investing and generics are equivalents with the slightest variation in potency so much so is negligent.
People are stupid. There is no point in trying to convince anyone.
I still know people who don't believe pressed xanax exists when they have yellow bar imprints on green bars.
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Burke Dennings
baby merchant

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Re: This shits retarded [Re: Amanita86]
#22357554 - 10/10/15 03:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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This isn't the in depth article I once found, but it's a fact sheet with the basics.
hxxp://www.fda.gov/Drugs/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/BuyingUsingMedicineSafely/UnderstandingGenericDrugs/ucm167991.htm
(To utilize the link, replace the x's in "hxxp" with t's. I didnt want to directly link from boomtown to a govt site, so I "broke" the link.)
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Burke Dennings
baby merchant

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Re: This shits retarded [Re: Gorlax]
#22357557 - 10/10/15 03:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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For whatever reason, whenever there is a number on the variance when I hear this myth repeated, it's always 20%. I wonder where this got started. Probably someone trying to sell their brand name meds on the black market for more than the generics.
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The Moose
Alces alces


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I don't see why linking matters?
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Amanita86
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Well, there you go. I guess that clarifies that one. I wonder where the other side of the argument originates from..
Quote:
Burke Dennings said: Probably someone trying to sell their brand name meds on the black market for more than the generics.

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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
Edited by Amanita86 (10/10/15 03:39 AM)
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makaveli8x8
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: The Moose]
#22357581 - 10/10/15 03:39 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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don't the pills come in a box, and the box tells you on the back exactly the percent of each chemical in it?
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The Moose
Alces alces


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I mean when I've had pills I get them in a bottle lol
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The Moose
Alces alces


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Re: This shits retarded [Re: The Moose]
#22357584 - 10/10/15 03:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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But it tells me dosage per pill, typically in MG or MCG.
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Gorlax



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Re: This shits retarded [Re: The Moose]
#22357610 - 10/10/15 04:02 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know where people come from when they say brand does matter. I never understood it to be a difference in actual milligram amount but rather absorption or cleaner chemical. I know the old blue watson 540 vicodins blew the yellow ones out of the water. Also I think yellow xanax bars are the gold standard for xanax compared to most others.
Xanax bars are literally the worst right now. Black market people are making bars that are 3mg, 3.5mg, and 4mg for reasons idk. They are labeled as 2mg and these are mixed up in the real ones so variation to variation with street bought xanax has always been a problem.
Pharm drugs I never questioned. No reason to.
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The Moose
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: Gorlax]
#22357619 - 10/10/15 04:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I mean IME (vikes were on my list of DOCs) a vike is a vike, ya know? I've had the watsons and the m360 and probably 2-3 other varieties of press and never been notable of a difference. Honestly I've taken 3-4 year post expired vikes and its been the same
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




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Re: This shits retarded [Re: The Moose]
#22357638 - 10/10/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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FDA regulation wouldn't allow drugs that people with disorders that count on accurate dosage to exist on the market. They claim the exact same standards for generics as name brands. Now is the FDA trustworthy? That's a different question.
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Gorlax



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Re: This shits retarded [Re: The Moose]
#22357660 - 10/10/15 04:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah I mean a vic is a vic but I grew a fondness to the blue ones. Maybe because I was spoiled with them for so long. Literally had prescription for 180 every month. Then the pharmacy started with the yellow ones. Then yah those fucking white M360s or whatever.
If you go into with opiod pills you have every person telling you which is better. I don't even fuck with oxycodone but when I was prescribed them post dental surgery those M box ones fucked me up way more then any other brand I tried of those.
Like I said it has to come down to it being a cleaner easily metabolized product or simply in your head. They have already proven placebo affect to be better then pain killers in some situations.
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psi
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My impression is that different preparations of a drug (i.e. choice of pill binding agents etc, the drug molecule itself is the same) can result in significant differences in bioavailability. A lot of money goes into testing bioavailability of new generic preparations of existing drugs (when people become medical test subjects for money, this is what they're doing a lot of the time.) Presumably they try to get it as close as they can to the preparation they're trying to emulate. For the actual milligram value printed on the package, I wouldn't think they'd be allowed to print a different value than the actual amount because it's considered "equivalent" to x milligrams, but I'm not 100% sure that isn't the case.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: Amanita86]
#22357961 - 10/10/15 08:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amanita86 said: Generics have a little more leeway in terms of the ingredient's measurements. Brand name has to "be", generics just 'represent' the brand name recipe.
if a drug is claimed to be 7mg of something that ingredient has to be 7mg, there may be a few micrograms difference in weight but then it's the allowable variance throughout the industry whether it's the brand name or the generic, that means it can be over or under what ever that variance allow, if it's 2mg over or under the claimed weight it may not seem like that big of a deal but with some drugs it means it could be lethal
the leeway they're given is in the binders and fillers, the generic may contain acetominiphin while the brand name will contain ibuprofin or one may contain more starch than the other
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Niffla



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Your friend's shit's all retarded
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AkaAlias
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: Niffla]
#22358119 - 10/10/15 09:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Personally, I've never experienced any difference between different brands of diazepam for instance.
My ex on the other hand had a tantrum/breakdown when her ex-doc wouldn't prescribe her a certain brand of meds. To her, there were substantial differences in effect, even though that shouldn't be possible, as generic and branded product should contain the same substance and dosage. Then again, she also contributed some of her strange moods to what phase the moon was in. Go figure..
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psi
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: AkaAlias] 1
#22358151 - 10/10/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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It definitely isn't impossible, since the amount of the active compound isn't the only thing affecting the response curve over time of drug available in your system. Binding agents etc can affect that response as well.
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Big Worm
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: psi]
#22358192 - 10/10/15 09:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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When I would eat benzo's often. (Clonazepam)
Teva was the highest quality brand IMO.
Sandoz and Mylan are the worst.
All labeled as Clonaz. but I don't know what the other two companies would do, but it didn't feel the same at all.
So I don't know where the variation comes into play, maybe certain things were derived from a different source so they differ in quality or something.
Even people I knew that had a prescription for clonazepam would say they were terrible and would end up going to a different pharmacy.
I don't really know what i'm trying to get at.
But I figured I would share.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: AkaAlias]
#22358206 - 10/10/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
AkaAlias said: Personally, I've never experienced any difference between different brands of diazepam for instance.
My ex on the other hand had a tantrum/breakdown when her ex-doc wouldn't prescribe her a certain brand of meds. To her, there were substantial differences in effect, even though that shouldn't be possible, as generic and branded product should contain the same substance and dosage. Then again, she also contributed some of her strange moods to what phase the moon was in. Go figure..
you are aware that some doctards receive perks from pharmaceutical reps for pushing branded meds
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Quote:
Rebelutionsssss said: My friends called me stupid for thinking that a generic drug with the same amount of actives as the brand name are the same. Everyone thought I was stupid even though I explained it pisses me off
Some people can't be helped, they will never understand no matter how much you try to explain it.
I don't know why.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: The Moose]
#22358742 - 10/10/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Moose said: I mean when I've had pills I get them in a bottle lol
generic meds can be found out on the isles too, those all come in box's. and on those box's it lists the meds in them and the percentages. Sometimes even that is slightly vague however as it lists main ingredients and then it will list a bunch of them under "other ingredients" or something like that and i think it lists the percent for all of those together or something, and that is most likely where generics are different than name brand.
The main ingredients are the same, its all the other shit in them thats different.
Plus they attain the ingredients different, a name brand might use a highly advanced process involving modified yeast, while a generic brand might involve killing kittens and extracting the chemicals from its various body parts then sending them to china to have them contaiminated with heavy metals and sent back
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


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Sometimes the generics don't work the same as the brand name. I'm not sure why this is, but it's true. Not necessarily with psychoactives, but other pharms. I've seem people not get the benefits from some generics, and therefore have to take the brand name. Trying to get insurance companies on board with this is a real bitch.
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Pariahprose
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Re: This shits retarded [Re: Dark_Star]
#22358860 - 10/10/15 11:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Never heard 20%. I always heard of a 10% variant in generic vs. Name brand, but the only medication that was found to have a real difference was K cut klonopins vs. Generic.
Maybe its not the make of the main ingredient, but the fillers used by generic companies?
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


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Yeah the fillers are a major component.
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