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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. * 2
    #22356759 - 10/09/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

religion is all about one thing...segregation. past all the God talk and more God talk, there is one intrinsic objective and that is to separate one 'group' from another 'group'.

'we don't like them, and their ways, and we don't want anyone to go over there and take on their ways and want to come back to us; we don't want anyone to go over there and insinuate our religion and make them see themselves as better than us; we only want them to see the light and see things our way, or they should be killed.'

sounds alot like nationalism to me. do we want to be in peace, no, we want to be the best, and thus the fall of reason. for both the religious and people in general.

discuss intelligently or not at all.


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OfflineJanky Tits

Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 4,037
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356764 - 10/09/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Fuck religion....

It sucks cock. Fuck Muslims especially.


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356766 - 10/09/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Agreed...



--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Janky Tits]
    #22356767 - 10/09/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

there ya go again. insinuating yourself.


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OfflineJanky Tits

Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 4,037
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356774 - 10/09/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

That's you Akira. That's why 40+ people have blocked you


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OfflineMinnesnowtaNice
FriendofHagrid
Male

Registered: 09/18/13
Posts: 1,316
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356775 - 10/09/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Religion sucks ass


--------------------
we are all thought forms in a cloud of synchronistic events.




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OfflineAdolin
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,292
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22356778 - 10/09/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

down with war. down with peace. down with nationalism. down with socialism.

Chaos is the only solution


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Adolin] * 1
    #22356786 - 10/09/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gresh said:
Chaos is the only solution




No the only solution is to leave others alone. Treat people how you want to be treated.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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OfflineMinnesnowtaNice
FriendofHagrid
Male

Registered: 09/18/13
Posts: 1,316
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Shiithead]
    #22356790 - 10/09/15 10:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Na he is right, anarchy is the only way


--------------------
we are all thought forms in a cloud of synchronistic events.




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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: MinnesnowtaNice]
    #22356800 - 10/09/15 10:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

an·ar·chy

ˈanərkē/

noun

a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.

"he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy"

synonyms: lawlessness, nihilism, mobocracy, revolution, insurrection, disorder, chaos, mayhem, tumult, turmoil

"conditions are dangerously ripe for anarchy"

absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.


You're partially right. We need to be left alone and leave others be. That's it.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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InvisibleRocket

Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 3,653
Loc: Land of the Freaks Flag
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356809 - 10/09/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
religion is all about one thing...segregation. past all the God talk and more God talk, there is one intrinsic objective and that is to separate one 'group' from another 'group'.

'we don't like them, and their ways, and we don't want anyone to go over there and take on their ways and want to come back to us; we don't want anyone to go over there and insinuate our religion and make them see themselves as better than us; we only want them to see the light and see things our way, or they should be killed.'

sounds alot like nationalism to me. do we want to be in peace, no, we want to be the best, and thus the fall of reason. for both the religious and people in general.

discuss intelligently or not at all.




Reminds me of George Carlin (Differences) Jammin' In New York 1992


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Janky Tits]
    #22356810 - 10/09/15 10:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Janky Tits said:
That's you Akira. That's why 40+ people have blocked you



ok there Boo Boo.

nice observation Rocket, BTW.

it is very tumultuous isn't it? just like most one on one relationships. at least until one grows up, but that's a HUGE variable.


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OfflineJanky Tits

Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 4,037
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356836 - 10/09/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The fuck are you talking about?

You are so weird dude. You are such a clown


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InvisibleRocket

Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 3,653
Loc: Land of the Freaks Flag
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356850 - 10/09/15 10:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Indeed.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356873 - 10/09/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Religion is hella lame. It's like get a cooler hobby bro.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22356886 - 10/09/15 10:46 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Also I love how people are always throwing how many people are ignoring you in your face. Like how many over sensitives there are has any bearing on your arguments.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Rocket]
    #22356890 - 10/09/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Janky Tits said:
The fuck are you talking about?

You are so weird dude. You are such a clown



um...can you stop be a boner? (i can't believe i ever thought you were boner soup :sad: )

you said "fuck Muslims" without even THINKING about what i was saying in the OP. go away, this is for intelligent discussion, not "Fuck Muzzies!"

that kind of ignorance is exactly what i am talking about...you're just as bad as your adversary.

Quote:

Rocket said:
Indeed.



reality is war. it must be brought to some kind of head, to be truncated, it should verily be taught in schools even! ie don't be a little bitch and start wars, because it just makes people behave badly. it's a bad influence, most importantly.

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Also I love how people are always throwing how many people are ignoring you in your face. Like how many over sensitives there are has any bearing on your arguments.



:lol: yeah well that sounds like a larf.

that's my brain whenever that happens^ yeah i start quoting Simpsons for some reason.

it's funny as all hell.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356900 - 10/09/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quoting The Simpsons is always an appropriate response to any situation.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356903 - 10/09/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

More then anything, conflict seems to define humanity. Power struggles, war, mass murder, they all seem as human as art or love.


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356911 - 10/09/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

war and religion,

war = power

religion = peace

war is evil

religion is good

in conclusion, it is nothing to do with war or religion

in the end it's just good vs evil


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22356913 - 10/09/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quoting The Simpsons is always an appropriate response to any situation.



fuckin' trivia session!!!!1

what part is it from? anyone who gets it wins a prize.

"ooo, that sounds like a larf!"


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz] * 1
    #22356916 - 10/09/15 10:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
religion = peace





:burke:


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22356917 - 10/09/15 10:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
More then anything, conflict seems to define humanity. Power struggles, war, mass murder, they all seem as human as a work of art.



good fuckin' post. this is sorta what i'm getting at. a discussion at this magnitude of subject would be revolutionary, i think.


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OfflineAdolin
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22356919 - 10/09/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:

religion = peace





:canthelpbutlaugh:


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Adolin]
    #22356923 - 10/09/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

it's true :shrug:


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22356928 - 10/09/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I had to google it. :sadyes:


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OfflineJanky Tits

Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 4,037
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22356934 - 10/09/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
it's true :shrug:



Religion sucks dude. God's probably not real :shrug:


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OfflineAdolin
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,292
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Janky Tits]
    #22356944 - 10/09/15 11:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Janky Tits said:
God's probably not real :shrug:




:picdidnthappen:


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Janky Tits]
    #22356945 - 10/09/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

on the contrary, religion is cool, and god is real.


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Adolin]
    #22356946 - 10/09/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

zZZz said:
religion = peace





:burke:




Quote:

Gresh said:
Quote:

zZZz said:

religion = peace





:canthelpbutlaugh:




:sambergfive:


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz] * 2
    #22356949 - 10/09/15 11:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
on the contrary, religion is cool, and god is real.




God is a real douche.


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22356956 - 10/09/15 11:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

see, it;s already bringing peeps together


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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OfflineJanky Tits

Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 4,037
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22356961 - 10/09/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's hard to believe someone who uses psychedelics buys into to the religion thing.

I remember how strange and absurd the idea of god seemed to me when I was on mushrooms


Edited by Janky Tits (10/09/15 11:05 PM)


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22356962 - 10/09/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

zZZz said:
on the contrary, religion is cool, and god is real.




God is a real douche.




god is cool  :dealwithit:


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22356974 - 10/09/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
I had to google it. :sadyes:



still, you tried!

LOL the event is still posted.

i'll give a hint ... Homer's being lazy. LOL shittiest hint ever.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22356978 - 10/09/15 11:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

zZZz said:
on the contrary, religion is cool, and god is real.




God is a real douche.




god is cool  :dealwithit:



stop please you're killing everyone. that's against the 10 commandments.


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356987 - 10/09/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

u brought it upon urself :snub:


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22356994 - 10/09/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, God kills me cause he loves me. Yahweh man!


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22356998 - 10/09/15 11:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

we kill ourselves bro


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357001 - 10/09/15 11:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
More then anything, conflict seems to define humanity. Power struggles, war, mass murder, they all seem as human as a work of art.



good fuckin' post. this is sorta what i'm getting at. a discussion at this magnitude of subject would be revolutionary, i think.




A discussion I dont think humanities ready for yet, most countries cant even handle gaysex yet alone a discussion on the roots of broader conflicts. I think our tendency to group up and oppose those that are different is almost ingrained in us. Its one of those things that seems like an immutable physical law. The struggle for dominance.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/10/14
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Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22357003 - 10/09/15 11:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Lay off the religion bro, you've hit that shit too hard and fried your brain.


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22357006 - 10/09/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

no way bro, i love religion.


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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InvisibleRocket

Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 3,653
Loc: Land of the Freaks Flag
Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22357013 - 10/09/15 11:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I love when George Carlin talks about the 10 commandments in his Religion is Bullshit.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22357015 - 10/09/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
More then anything, conflict seems to define humanity. Power struggles, war, mass murder, they all seem as human as a work of art.



good fuckin' post. this is sorta what i'm getting at. a discussion at this magnitude of subject would be revolutionary, i think.




A discussion I dont think humanities ready for yet, most countries cant even handle gaysex yet alone a discussion on the roots of broader conflicts. I think our tendency to group up and oppose those that are different is almost ingrained in us. Its one of those things that seems like an immutable physical law. The struggle for dominance.



you've seen my posts on coalitions haven't you? :blush: just curious, because i think you've got the same idea in mind.

people split into coalitions depending on their VIEWS, and those who don't share these views are put against each other in war. people can't just have an opinion.

PS: i think the world should be ashamed of it's lamentations.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22108110#22108110

the world would sound alot better like this.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22357021 - 10/09/15 11:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
no way bro, i love religion.




Lots of people love meth.


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22357030 - 10/09/15 11:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

that's irrelevant to this discussion


--------------------
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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22357032 - 10/09/15 11:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

you've really gotten into this role haven't you?


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357037 - 10/09/15 11:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

what did u expect?


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357039 - 10/09/15 11:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I've rarely been on the shroomery as of late so I doubt it. Even having a couple hours to kill on here is pretty rare these days. Sounds like it'd be something worth reading though, post up a link.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22357041 - 10/09/15 11:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
that's irrelevant to this discussion




It's called an analogy holmes. Read a book.


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InvisibleRocket

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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22357045 - 10/09/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Most countries cant even handle gaysex yet because,  Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception.



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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22357050 - 10/09/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

zZZz said:
that's irrelevant to this discussion




It's called an analogy holmes. Read a book.




what's a book?..


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22357064 - 10/09/15 11:34 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
Jesus Is Love




:raptorJesus:


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InvisibleRocket

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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22357070 - 10/09/15 11:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:pope: 

:allsodisappointed:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22357071 - 10/09/15 11:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
I've rarely been on the shroomery as of late so I doubt it. Even having a couple hours to kill on here is pretty rare these days. Sounds like it'd be something worth reading though, post up a link.



oh well, that's not really doable. i haven't made a thread about it or any kind of inspired post. it's really all too depressing to see it happen before my eyes, even on here, to the extent where it's so obvious, i figure everyone's gotta know that they're doing it, just not saying it; so i make these sly remarks, surreptitiously, about coalitions as if people must know what i mean. :blush: otherwise, other then that frequent badinage, i've made no such distinctions. how could i? i'm not crazy...people know this shit...right?


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357204 - 10/10/15 12:23 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

WAR, HUH, YEAH! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!


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Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #22357208 - 10/10/15 12:25 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

friend only to the undertaker!1 OOOOOOOWAAAAHHHHHH!!!


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357210 - 10/10/15 12:25 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

you're harshin my vibes brah


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Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #22357227 - 10/10/15 12:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

*rubs knee*

papa's gonna make things ok, don't worry.


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InvisibleShiithead
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
    #22357237 - 10/10/15 12:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

1 To every thing there is a season,
and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 a time to cast away stones,
and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 a time to get, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 a time to rend, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time of war, and a time of peace.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Shiithead] * 1
    #22357248 - 10/10/15 12:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shiithead said:
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

1 To every thing there is a season,
and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 a time to cast away stones,
and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 a time to get, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 a time to rend, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time of war, and a time of peace.



to everything turn...turn...turn...it is the season...turn...turn...turn...and give life to everypurpose on the Earth AND TRY TO PLAY GOD AND TRY TO RELIEF THE PAIN WHICH YOU FEEL INSIDE OF YOUR DREAMS AND -- THE ANAL LEAKAGE WITHIN, YOU'VE GOT MAKE AMEEENDS WITH THE BUTTHURT!1


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InvisibleShiithead
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357253 - 10/10/15 12:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You're clever. How's that working out for ya?


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Shiithead]
    #22357254 - 10/10/15 12:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

the playing God part is my favorite part, after that i really didn't have much to say. :smirk: how's playin' God workin' for ya? how's war?


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357257 - 10/10/15 12:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
*rubs knee*

papa's gonna make things ok, don't worry.



aww :blush:


--------------------
Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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InvisibleShiithead
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357267 - 10/10/15 12:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I am not God. I am His child though.

And there is much work to be done.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Shiithead]
    #22357272 - 10/10/15 12:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

well aren't u a saint, praise shiithead :bow2:


--------------------
Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Shiithead]
    #22357281 - 10/10/15 12:47 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cosmic_Flame said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
*rubs knee*

papa's gonna make things ok, don't worry.



aww :blush:



i will fend this heathen from your presence.

Quote:

Shiithead said:
I am not God. I am His child though.

And there is much work to be done.



you need to get to work then. but no one will dig for you. and no one will put the bullet in.


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InvisibleShiithead
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357286 - 10/10/15 12:48 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You need Jesus.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Shiithead]
    #22357300 - 10/10/15 12:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

oh you mean you? or you mean some other you?

or a bullet?

what? what do you mean exactly?

you say we're all God's children, so wtf do you mean by that really?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357314 - 10/10/15 12:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
religion is all about one thing...segregation.





which religion?


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OfflineSunnyD
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #22357324 - 10/10/15 01:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I find most of the big organized religions to be stupid


my religion doesnt even have a name except for th  universe
I worship the stars, life


No war would come from myy *religion*
But  yes i find most organized religion stupid
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
religion is all about one thing...segregation.





which religion?



Christianity for example
Homosexual hate in the bible etc

if you dont believe in the bible your a heaven to a Christian
a form of hateful segregation


--------------------
:sunny::inlove::peyotespectrum::peyotespectrum::inlove::sunny:
And to everyone who thinks life is just a game,
Do you like the part you are playing?
This is the time in life I am living!
And I face each day with a smile :smile:
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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357338 - 10/10/15 01:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

u're trippin dawg


--------------------
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InvisibleShiithead
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: zZZz]
    #22357342 - 10/10/15 01:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
u're trippin dawg




--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Shiithead] * 2
    #22357352 - 10/10/15 01:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shiithead said:
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly




:haha:


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InvisibleCosmic_Flame
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #22357359 - 10/10/15 01:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

:ilold:


--------------------
Pull the blinds and change their minds....


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22357374 - 10/10/15 01:16 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
religion is all about one thing...segregation.





which religion?



all of the ones about God. all of the ones involving an afterlife. all of the ones of involution.

for instance...Discordianism isn't a religion that's involution is war.

nice point though, Prisoner. alot of things can be someone's religion.


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22357583 - 10/10/15 03:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You speak of large scale multifaceted clusterfuckery, ridden with dangerously fallacious and ill-conceived logic of which imposition with variable motives is largely the most destructive part.

Strong or fundamentalist religious and political belief goes hand in hand with yearning for power/control - utilizing superstitious belief and law systems to instill fear and maintain control and order as well as to dominate and expand empires.

Two prominent examples being Christianity and Islam.

There's certainly similarity in logic of (hypocritically) imposing nationalism and religious segregation as you pointed out and it's a constituent of the fall of reason.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Into The Woods] * 1
    #22357623 - 10/10/15 04:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

indeed.

i wish people with that incessant Need To Control would just take that control and blow their fuckin' brains out!



and that's the Brutal Truth.


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Invisibledionysiandame
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22358059 - 10/10/15 08:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"religion is all about one thing...segregation"

The average person joins a religion for a) communion with the divine in whatever form that divinity takes for them and b) a sense of community and fellowship. The essence of MOST religions lies in the roots of creating lifelong bonds with fellow worshipers though this doesn't mean they're exclusive or segregated at all. Considering all of the Hindu festivals and Pujas I get invited to by coworkers who are just acquaintances, I can attest to that from first hand experience. The idea of sharing an experience is a fundamental facet of many religions save closed/initiatory ones and even initiatory religions have rituals that are more "open" to the general population.

As far as "religion causing war", yes it has. It's also caused art, poetry, great literature, exploration into the human condition, scientific discovery, radical political movements, safe havens, and adoptive families for those who have none.


--------------------
He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. :psychsplit:
Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human
Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Janky Tits]
    #22358091 - 10/10/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Janky Tits said:
Fuck religion....

It sucks cock. Fuck Muslims especially.




Now now, don't desciminate.

Fuck them all equally.


--------------------


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: dionysiandame]
    #22358110 - 10/10/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dionysiandame said:
"religion is all about one thing...segregation"

The average person joins a religion for a) communion with the divine in whatever form that divinity takes for them and b) a sense of community and fellowship. The essence of MOST religions lies in the roots of creating lifelong bonds with fellow worshipers though this doesn't mean they're exclusive or segregated at all. Considering all of the Hindu festivals and Pujas I get invited to by coworkers who are just acquaintances, I can attest to that from first hand experience. The idea of sharing an experience is a fundamental facet of many religions save closed/initiatory ones and even initiatory religions have rituals that are more "open" to the general population.

As far as "religion causing war", yes it has. It's also caused art, poetry, great literature, exploration into the human condition, scientific discovery, radical political movements, safe havens, and adoptive families for those who have none.



all true.

though i don't quite think that was the intention.

the hordes had religion...slaves had religions, masters had religions.

all were devised to keep bond with one another OVER the bond of people's far-off. THAT's where the bond is, the keeping ties with 'your home's people' and not 'going off over yonder to those other people'. the roots of religion ARE roots. thus why it has created war...among other things; especially among progressives.

but perhaps i have the pretense wrong, however, the war thereof (among other things) had sprung from the very roots of religion, for reasons better or worse.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: SunnyD]
    #22358128 - 10/10/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AddyZomeD said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
religion is all about one thing...segregation.





which religion?



Christianity for example
Homosexual hate in the bible etc

if you dont believe in the bible your a heaven to a Christian
a form of hateful segregation




so it's always about bashing christianity


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22358140 - 10/10/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

There is a major difference between abrahamic monotheism and eastern religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism, Jainism. Etc.

Usually when people criticize religion they are actually referring to abrahamic monotheism and the criticisms usually apply far less if at all to eastern religion.

It is also a historical fact that more people have been killed or murdered by atheist regimes then by religion And that secular powers have been responsible for more conflict then religious ones.

Most people Assume that religion is the cause of all historical wars but objective studies have proved truly religious wars have been rare in history and Atheist regime a have been far bloodier than theocracies.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22358153 - 10/10/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
religion is all about one thing...segregation.





which religion?



all of the ones about God. all of the ones involving an afterlife. all of the ones of involution.

for instance...Discordianism isn't a religion that's involution is war.

nice point though, Prisoner. alot of things can be someone's religion.




so since the buddhists have no god, this shouldnt be an issue because you know,
religions of peace and all that











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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22358174 - 10/10/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

well, the common bonds of men are explicit in religion, i'd say, even Eastern religion, including the Vedic religions (they had to apparently wait for their word from God, as they were still warring in hordes for a very long run and also: see: Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations for how a "warring ideology" in their political systems still provides for conflict) and Buddhism (look at Burma); Taoism, Sikhism, Jainism are pretty extraneous in the regard to war, however, but i don't put it past practitioners to fight for their religion if it really came down to it to protect their religion's right to exist, which as a religion, they are privy to if another's "group" wants to come and smash down on them.

perhaps i should have specified 'theocracies' induce symptoms "of war", rather than lump all religions into one, but i still think you're overlooking that even the most peaceful religions have had to be fought for...and if there were no religions, then people wouldn't be fighting over them (!), right?

same goes with governments of any sort.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

so since the buddhists have no god, this shouldnt be an issue because you know,
religions of peace and all that





see above; and i also mentioned the belief in an afterlife or to have any belief structure or concept of belonging to an involution in nature, or in human ideals, or one's self (Solipsism).


Edited by akira_akuma (10/10/15 09:27 AM)


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22358179 - 10/10/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"it is simply incorrect to assert that religion has been the primary cause of war.


An interesting source of truth on the matter is Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars, which chronicles some 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature,  which is an astonishingly low 6.98% of all wars.

Further, they played no motivating role in the major wars that have resulted.

The truth is, non-religious motivations and naturalistic philosophies bear the blame for nearly all of humankind’s wars. Lives lost during religious conflict pales in comparison to those experienced during the regimes who wanted nothing to do with the idea of God – something showcased in R. J. Rummel’s work Lethal Politics and Death by Government:

Non-Religious Dictator Lives Lost

Joseph Stalin - 42,672,000
Mao Zedong - 37,828,000
Adolf Hitler - 20,946,000
Chiang Kai-shek - 10,214,000
Vladimir Lenin - 4,017,000
Hideki Tojo - 3,990,000
Pol Pot - 2,397,0003
Rummel says: “Almost 170 million men, women and children have been shot, beaten, tortured, knifed, burned, starved, frozen, crushed or worked to death; buried alive, drowned, hung, bombed or killed in any other of a myriad of ways (mostly secular) governments have inflicted death on unarmed, helpless citizens and foreigners. The dead could conceivably be nearly 360 million people.

The historical evidence is quite clear: Religion is not the #1 cause of war"


--------------------


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22358191 - 10/10/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

that's just boiling down religion into it's core parts, but leaving out the instance of it's conception.

i'm talking about how the two ideas (War and Religion) are linked.

not about how many wars or death's religion has caused.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #22358203 - 10/10/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

dionysiandame said:
"religion is all about one thing...segregation"

The average person joins a religion for a) communion with the divine in whatever form that divinity takes for them and b) a sense of community and fellowship. The essence of MOST religions lies in the roots of creating lifelong bonds with fellow worshipers though this doesn't mean they're exclusive or segregated at all. Considering all of the Hindu festivals and Pujas I get invited to by coworkers who are just acquaintances, I can attest to that from first hand experience. The idea of sharing an experience is a fundamental facet of many religions save closed/initiatory ones and even initiatory religions have rituals that are more "open" to the general population.

As far as "religion causing war", yes it has. It's also caused art, poetry, great literature, exploration into the human condition, scientific discovery, radical political movements, safe havens, and adoptive families for those who have none.



all true.

though i don't quite think that was the intention.

the hordes had religion...slaves had religions, masters had religions.

all were devised to keep bond with one another OVER the bond of people's far-off. THAT's where the bond is, the keeping ties with 'your home's people' and not 'going off over yonder to those other people'. the roots of religion ARE roots. thus why it has created war...among other things; especially among progressives.

but perhaps i have the pretense wrong, however, the war thereof (among other things) had sprung from the very roots of religion, for reasons better or worse.





You make interesting points but I must respectfully disagree with a few of them. A slave within a mystery tradition would have bonds with those who followed the same tradition, as well, they would have bonds with the family they served. The religious bond would most certainly NOT be given precedence over the bond it has to the family purely because they are a slave and do not have that kind of freedom.

Similarly, a Hindu in southern India and one in Northern India might not have a bond at all aside from seeing each other during Diwali and even then, their familial and cultural ties are a million times stronger than their religious one.

I think the only time you will see religious bonds trump familial/clan/culture based ones is when one either a)takes a vocation or b)becomes involved in an exclusive cult. Note that both of these are "extremes" of religious life, the average individual will put familial bonds over religious ones.

Last example, I had a coworker from Pakistan who is a very devout Muslim, yet many of his opinions about morality that he claimed to be from Islam were actually from his CULTURE and would have been unrecognizable say to a Muslim in Egypt, Dubai, or Turkey and to this effect he didn't consider these people fellows in faith; only those who shared his particular outlook gained that "honor." (Please note the heavy sarcasm quotes there. Dude was a total creeper.)

At the base level, he was faithful to his culture and clan traditions more than he was to his actual faith and that bond meant more to him than actual religious solidarity.


--------------------
He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. :psychsplit:
Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #22358225 - 10/10/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

dionysiandame said:
"religion is all about one thing...segregation"

The average person joins a religion for a) communion with the divine in whatever form that divinity takes for them and b) a sense of community and fellowship. The essence of MOST religions lies in the roots of creating lifelong bonds with fellow worshipers though this doesn't mean they're exclusive or segregated at all. Considering all of the Hindu festivals and Pujas I get invited to by coworkers who are just acquaintances, I can attest to that from first hand experience. The idea of sharing an experience is a fundamental facet of many religions save closed/initiatory ones and even initiatory religions have rituals that are more "open" to the general population.

As far as "religion causing war", yes it has. It's also caused art, poetry, great literature, exploration into the human condition, scientific discovery, radical political movements, safe havens, and adoptive families for those who have none.



all true.

though i don't quite think that was the intention.

the hordes had religion...slaves had religions, masters had religions.

all were devised to keep bond with one another OVER the bond of people's far-off. THAT's where the bond is, the keeping ties with 'your home's people' and not 'going off over yonder to those other people'. the roots of religion ARE roots. thus why it has created war...among other things; especially among progressives.

but perhaps i have the pretense wrong, however, the war thereof (among other things) had sprung from the very roots of religion, for reasons better or worse.




The most rudimentary bonds are familial.  Religion came later.  Oft time, the slaves and their masters worship the same god(s).  You are correct in that religion is one of the bonds that humans use to categorize and segregate each other.  I think that this speaks more to the nature of people, than the nature of religion. If humans want to hold themselves seperate from another group of humans, there are more metrics than religion available. Off the top of my head: skin color, manner of dress, language, food choices(ew, they eat bugs!), left or right handedness, gender, sexual/marriage conventions, job type, ancestry (noble vs common). There are numerous examples of cultures going to war despite a common religion.  Usually in order to aquire some type of wealth(land, food, gold, slaves, etc.)
Here are some famous battles and campaigns that had virtually nothing to do with religion:

Marathon
Salamis
Peloponnesian War
Leuctra
Phillip's campaigns in Greece
Alexander's campaigns
Punic War
Second Punic War
Caesar's Campaigns against Pompey
Battle of Hastings
War of Spanish Succession
War of Austrian Succession
French Revolution
American Revolution
War of 1812
American Civil War
World War One
World War Two


--------------------


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: dionysiandame]
    #22358248 - 10/10/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

a: but they'd strive for that freedom, would they not?

b: on Hindus: sure, but their bond may not be stronger, but it still exists there, in their religion. do you not think north and south would unite to fight a common enemy? would they not be tied by religion?

c: there is a calling for vocation, is there not? is there not a call, for certain disputants of their current bonds, to extremist cults?

d: but his ignorance comes from a maligning with the faith that he still supports, even more-so dangerous, though, that does not stop this miscalculation to from having come way by the religion he was kept by since his birth, no?

or is it a different religion now, and if so, where did it come from -- well, certainly it came from his culture, but doesn't all religion?

and isn't this getting down to what i'm really talking about...how the two (war and religions) are connected? they for sure, indeed so, connected by culture...but 'what's more of a driving force for a culture' now becomes the question, i suppose. war? or religion?

well how are the two similar?

we've already established that they keep people working together, whether against a common enemy, or because of a bond in faith.

they both certainly drive culture in that direction, of people working together, that's for sure.

perhaps religion is not as it once was, but surely, in the past, war has been used to devise more than war; it's been used to devise diplomacy too, but for mutual gain; of course peace can also be a driving force for culture too. isn't peace and war so in tandem that they are practically the same coin? toss it in the air and see what you get? make the wrong move and WAR, but make the right move and PEACE.

i digress, i certainly can see some connections between the two, i and think there might be some historical application to the two being 'in tandem' but perhaps i'm using the wrong words to describe what i'm getting at.

perhaps what i mean is that Religion & Control are tied together so, which leads to that supposed connection to War - the human condition - yes, that's what i'm mainly getting at, the human condition, this is what i'm speaking about.

just expounding on some ideas :yesnod: thanks for your inspirational examples dionysiandame.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22358284 - 10/10/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:

The most rudimentary bonds are familial.  Religion came later.  Oft time, the slaves and their masters worship the same god(s).  You are correct in that religion is one of the bonds that humans use to categorize and segregate each other.  I think that this speaks more to the nature of people, than the nature of religion. If humans want to hold themselves seperate from another group of humans, there are more metrics than religion available. Off the top of my head: skin color, manner of dress, language, food choices(ew, they eat bugs!), left or right handedness, gender, sexual/marriage conventions, job type, ancestry (noble vs common). There are numerous examples of cultures going to war despite a common religion.  Usually in order to aquire some type of wealth(land, food, gold, slaves, etc.)
Here are some famous battles and campaigns that had virtually nothing to do with religion....




yes, it is one of the bonds...and it does indeed cover all of the above subjects you mentioned; of course, in a religious doctrine, it's trying to smooth - if you will - all those things out, as above mentioned (dress, food, ect how to's, basically).

but i am not talking about literal War. i am, as you mentioned, talking about the nature of people; and i think i see religion as something that is very akin to War...it makes people see themselves as separate, and in alot of cases segregated, from one another...not that that leads to literal War, but a sort of War of emotions and of the senses. sure this is just human nature, but if War and Religion is human nature, then they are connected. that's all i'm interested in, the connection, not whether one leads to the other (though that is an interest list of events, i shall hopefully study a bit, in due time, so i thank you).

and if War and Religion, one or the other, is NOT human nature, then where are THOSE connections and how do we expunge of what is not our nature?

THAT is my main assertion, that perhaps there is something to that thought.

but perhaps there isn't. any ideas?


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22358320 - 10/10/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

Shiithead said:
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly




:haha:




America is 240 years old next year. Would you say that is a long time? Christ was born a little over 2000 years ago. You know because that is what we base our time off... Is that a long time??

What about dark time that was around 5000 bc. Is 7000 years a long time? Christ is coming back soon.  Every knee will bow.



--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22358349 - 10/10/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think that what Barry Schwartz has to say about the subject is kinda interesting.

you can check it out here if you have 20 min at some point

"So you should be very suspicious when you hear explanations that appeal to human nature; Chances are, that even if it is human nature, it is a human nature that has been created, and not a human nature that has been discovered."


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Shiithead]
    #22358369 - 10/10/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shiithead said:
Quote:

clock_of_omens said:
Quote:

Shiithead said:
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly




:haha:




America is 240 years old next year. Would you say that is a long time?

2000 years ago. Is that a long time??

Is 7000 years a long time?\




No.

You obviously didn't get the joke.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #22358426 - 10/10/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I think that what Barry Schwartz has to say about the subject is kinda interesting.

you can check it out here if you have 20 min at some point

"So you should be very suspicious when you hear explanations that appeal to human nature; Chances are, that even if it is human nature, it is a human nature that has been created, and not a human nature that has been discovered."




those are some necessary implications, i think, those concerning human nature. what is created cannot be nature, itself. it might in our nature to create...in a religious way, it's almost akin to 'playing God', playing 'creator'.

that is another intrinsic connection between Religion, War, and human nature.

creating our own world.

but really, what is the difference between that which was created and that which is our nature, by definition?


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22358427 - 10/10/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

"Though we can't prove the existence of one (or many) god(s), we can provide evidence for the power of religion. For good or for evil, faith factors into our everyday functioning: We've evolved to believe. Religion can help us make sense of our world, provide motivation, and bind us together. "

"The National Opinion Research Center collected data on church attendance and happiness ratings from 34,706 people from 1972-1996. The data are clear—the more often you go to church, the happier you report your life to be. "

"Healthy eating habits and regular exercise rank among the top life-prolonging activities. But there is one activity with potentially life-prolonging benefits that you may not have considered: going to church. That’s right—studies show that attending a religious service more than once a week has the potential to help you live longer."


"Here’s what the researchers found: compared to those who never attend religious services, people who attend church, temple, or synagogue more than once a week, have the equivalent of a 7.5-year-longer life expectancy! Those who do not attend religious services have a 1.87 times higher risk of death for most causes within eight years."


--------------------


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: clock_of_omens]
    #22358435 - 10/10/15 10:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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Offlineclock_of_omens
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Shiithead]
    #22358442 - 10/10/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty well.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #22358447 - 10/10/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

i seriously doubt science had any intention nor was in anyway consequent in, or any rationale for, the reasoning of the faithful.

but that first quote rings to be true to what i'm saying; since there is no evidence of the ultimate absolute, we bind ourselves to control our destinies "in the face of all aridity".


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22358609 - 10/10/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Sometimes, religion can be divisive, and other times inclusive. 

Examples:Divisive

Quote:

Genesis 9 (New International Version)
18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the whole earth.

20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.

24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,

“Cursed be Canaan!
    The lowest of slaves
    will he be to his brothers.”

26 He also said,

“Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem!
    May Canaan be the slave of Shem.
27
May God extend Japheth’s territory;
    may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
    and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth.”




Quote:

Genesis 17New International Version (NIV)
The Covenant of Circumcision

17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. 2 Then I will make my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.”

3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”




Quote:

Exodus 40 (New International Version)
12 “Bring Aaron and his sons to the entrance to the tent of meeting and wash them with water. 13 Then dress Aaron in the sacred garments, anoint him and consecrate him so he may serve me as priest. 14 Bring his sons and dress them in tunics. 15 Anoint them just as you anointed their father, so they may serve me as priests. Their anointing will be to a priesthood that will continue throughout their generations.”




Examples:Inclusive

Quote:

Matthew 9 (new international version)
10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”




Quote:

Luke 10:25-37New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”




Quote:

Matthew 5 (New International Version)
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.




Edited by ballsalsa (10/10/15 12:04 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22358632 - 10/10/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

there seems to be a conflux of religious ideology between doing good for one's neighbors but also doing good for one's religion against persecution, but not outright divisiveness between groups for the sake of it.

that's what confuses me though, religious persecution...i mean, many religions have done it. is this just a confusion of the scripture and teachings though? or is it intrinsic in the scripture and the teachings?


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22358667 - 10/10/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I think that no matter the scripture or teachings, people will find a way to make it fit their world view.  If people want to persecute others, they will find a reason, religion just happens to be a convenient excuse.  Other excuses have and will in the future be used.  This may be learned behavior or it may be an inescapable part of human nature.  These sorts of questions are a little tricky, because someone has to teach a behavior in order for others to learn it, which begs the question: where did the first guy get the idea?


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22358682 - 10/10/15 11:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

the claim that religion fuels wars is overly simplistic, not because religion is flawless but because war is complicated, and behind both institutions looms the lust for power.

a good example from my recent studies is the case of the early germanic successor states during the fourth to eighth centuries. during the height of the roman empire, barbarian tribes were driven by the huns into western europe. starving, trying to stay one step ahead of outright slaughter, tribes wandered across roman lines, which often resulted in conflict, but also in cooperation; the federati were barbarian soldiers who protected roman outposts and fought for rome's client states at the edge of the roman frontier.  over time, the tribes began to form vast confederations, with rule within the confederations established via primogeniture. at the head of the confederations sat the "king". having fought for and alongside the romans, and having been integrated into roman society over time, the barbarian confederations thought of themselves as romans, and their kingdoms an extension of the empire - the typical image of a king is of a man wearing a red or purple cloak and a crown, both of which are roman symbols of power.

the germanic kingdoms sought endorsement of their aristocratic bloodlines from both the church and the rulers of the eastern empire (later byzantium). papal endorsement came on the condition of conversion to catholic christianity as the church attempted to purge heterodoxy and paganism from the west, with charlemagne's conquering of the saxons as a turning point. but the important thing to take notice of here is that in this case religion was more a means to an end for people in power, which seems to say a lot more about the problem of power and its abuses than the problem of religion and its flaws.


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Edited by millzy (10/10/15 11:19 AM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22358694 - 10/10/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

exactly. that's the tricky part.

this is my thought process, summed up: War and Religion seems to be in a parity with each other only... (as far as i'm concerned at this juncture, trying to learn)...only in as far as they are entangled together with the origin of ideas concerning early development of civilization, and even furthermore, the drives of human nature's hatred towards people outside of one's own family, group, coalition, ect.

that's where i am trying to establish my thought process towards.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22358713 - 10/10/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

war is necessarily about power. religion is not, especially at the devotee level where it matters most, in my view.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: millzy]
    #22358743 - 10/10/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
...in this case religion was more a means to an end for people in power, which seems to say a lot more about the problem of power and its abuses than the problem of religion and its flaws.



true.

interesting and well put together summation, thanks millzy, that's quite a crazy story you put forth for me.

so if absolute power corrupts absolutely, then what do the flaws in religion corrupt?

and why are people so obsessed with the seed of power, through religion, as opposed to the regulatory doctrines which would supposedly deride any such conquest for power?

i'd ask further, but then i think i'd be getting a bit too off-base.

why people crave power, innately, seems a no-brainer, but to summarize it seems to be unpalatable and probably too much to expound on.

how all this is conjoined with the idea of War, and it's premises, faults, fundamentals, fixtures, ect ect, i'd be all for more deliberation on.

but i'm going to sleep, so please, if you wish, discuss amongst yourselves if you'd wish, or leave me a last reply, if that's your fancy.

it's been an interesting discussion, i learned alot today. :awesome:


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: millzy]
    #22358845 - 10/10/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
the federati were barbarian soldiers who protected roman outposts and fought for rome's client states at the edge of the roman frontier.  over time, the tribes began to form vast confederations, with rule within the confederations established via primogeniture. at the head of the confederations sat the "king". having fought for and alongside the romans, and having been integrated into roman society over time, the barbarian confederations thought of themselves as romans, and their kingdoms an extension of the empire





The story of Arminius would be an interesting aside to your post.  I enjoy Creasy's account here:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4061/4061-h/4061-h.htm#link2HCH0005
Quote:

Dark and disheartening, even to heroic spirits, must have seemed the prospects of Germany when Arminius planned the general rising of his countrymen against Rome. Half the land was occupied by Roman garrisons; and, what was worse, many of the Germans seemed patiently acquiescent in their state of bondage. The braver portion, whose patriotism could be relied on, was ill-armed and undisciplined; while the enemy's troops consisted of veterans in the highest state of equipment and training, familiarized with victory, and commanded by officers of proved skill and valour. The resources of Rome seemed boundless; her tenacity of purpose was believed to be invincible. There was no hope of foreign sympathy or aid; for "the self-governing powers that had filled the old world, had bent one after another before the rising power of Rome, and had vanished. The earth seemed left void of independent nations." [Ranke.]

The (German) chieftain knew well the gigantic power of the oppressor. Arminius was no rude savage, fighting out of mere animal instinct, or in ignorance of the might of his adversary. He was familiar with the Roman language and civilization; he had served in the Roman armies; he had been admitted to the Roman citizenship, and raised to the dignity of the equestrian order. It was part of the subtle policy of Rome to confer rank and privileges on the youth of the leading families in the nations which she wished to enslave. Among other young German chieftains, Arminius and his brother, who were the heads of the noblest house in the tribe of the Cherusci, had been selected as fit objects for the exercise of this insidious system. Roman refinements and dignities succeeded in denationalizing the brother, who assumed the Roman name of Flavius, and adhered to Rome throughout all her wars against his country. Arminius remained unbought by honours or wealth, uncorrupted by refinement or luxury. He aspired to and obtained from Roman enmity a higher title than ever could have been given him by Roman favour. It is in the page of Rome's greatest historian, that his name has come down to us with the proud addition of "Liberator haud dubie Germaniae." [Tacitus, Annals, ii. 88.]

Often must the young chieftain, while meditating the exploit which has thus immortalised him, have anxiously revolved in his mind the fate of the many great men who had been crushed in the attempt which he was about to renew,—the attempt to stay the chariot-wheels of triumphant Rome. Could he hope to succeed where Hannibal and Mithridates had perished? What had been the doom of Viriathus? and what warning against vain valour was written on the desolate site where Numantia once had fourished? Nor was a caution wanting in scenes nearer home and in more recent times. The Gauls had fruitlessly struggled for eight years against Caesar; and the valiant Vercingetorix, who in the last year of the war had roused all his countrymen to insurrection, who had cut off Roman detachments, and brought Caesar himself to the extreme of peril at Alesia—he, too, had finally succumbed, had been led captive in Caesar's triumph, and had then been butchered in cold blood in a Roman dungeon.




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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #22358857 - 10/10/15 11:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

@ akira - religion's biggest flax is exclusivity, and that is precisely how power exploits religion. but we're growing out of that, albeit painfully and slowly. indeed, there are parts of the world where believing the wrong thing could cost you your life, but there are also parts of the world where religious pluralism is the standard, including here. i think it's easy to take for granted that the past hundred years has resulted in much less division between catholics and protestant christians in the u.s. just in our parents' time, having a catholic president was nearly unthinkable when it happened.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: millzy]
    #22358887 - 10/10/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

@ ballsalsa - yeah, the history of roman and barbarian relations is a hot mess. the sack of rome in 410 was the result of the romans fucking over the visigoths, who had settled in thrace. the visigoths were dependent on roman grain, and the supply chain was completely corrupt, so after starving they proceeded to fuck shit up. just goes to show, don't ever underestimate the little guy.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: millzy]
    #22358906 - 10/10/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

just goes to show, don't ever underestimate the little guy.






So true.  Its extra funny when Justinian sent Belsarius back to italy to take rome away from those visigoths.  Same lesson to be learned.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22358938 - 10/10/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Did you see the words for example?

i also said i hate most  forms of big organized religion
i hate religions with huge  bigoted teachings


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22359004 - 10/10/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Ya think everybody in the world would agree to give up all weopons at once? Guns, bombs, ect... and any group or country found violating this would be invaded by a massive number of like minded people to come in and ruin their way of life, or some kind idealist response.

Thats my idea. Not saying it perfect.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: SunnyD]
    #22359179 - 10/10/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Also too akira, isee what you mean about big religions like Christianity, islam etc to be pretty damn bigoted


But not all religion is bad, ones with the goal of peace of mind, togetherness etc imo are very good
I Couldn't be happier with my spiritual beliefs ( Universe )


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: SunnyD]
    #22359228 - 10/10/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

it seems to me that it's probably more productive to think about religion in terms of there being christianities, islams, etc. rather than continents of unchanging, uniform belief systems. that just isn't reality. certain sects of religions glorify vice (e.g. greed, bigotry, mysogyny, violence, intolerance to other belief systems and people etc.) but not all of them do. it's just not a simple conversation because what people believe and do based on those beliefs is far from it, and mischaracterizing religious devotees puts us further from seriously examining the topic.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: millzy] * 1
    #22361383 - 10/11/15 12:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I feel like people always get caught up in blaming religion because its the first thing anyone does right now. Rarely does any one ever fully consider the historical events that lead up to this massive conflict, or really what was before any of it started happening. The Arab world used to be a very progressive place up until continued historical warfare with other nations slowly polarized the community. Its like poking a sore until it starts festering. The attack on Afghanistan was totally unwarranted. There was never anything concretely tieing the country to 9/11 yet, nevermind invading and occupying the local population. Doing no knock raids, humiliating and killing innocent civilians. All this over decades, along with continual airtstrikes in countries the USA is not even officially at war with currently. What would your country do in that situation. Faced with this invading leviathan. Would the populace simply roll over and take it, meekly? A lot of you would pick up arms and fight. Few of you even see the broader picture between the two cultures.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #22361686 - 10/11/15 03:41 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

take note though, i wasn't "blaming" religion, but just seeing a similarity in religion and in notions of "stay away from other there, over there is dangerous" and what's dangerous gets in the way sometimes, to people in want of erm progress.

but yeah, i don't know TOO much history, i plan on brushing up, because it interests me. so i appreciate it guys, all the info i mean.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22361966 - 10/11/15 07:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

At the end of the day science proves that religion makes people both happier and healthier. So just be religious and don't start any wars :shrug:


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22362080 - 10/11/15 08:14 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

How insane is it to have an imaginary friend?  It makes sense and is completely rational because there are at least 20 other people supporting you. Is the belief in Santa Clause reasonable? Do you believe in that?


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: EDM]
    #22362128 - 10/11/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

The essence of my religious belief is the belief that practicing spiritual disciplines and participating in religious practices and observances has numerous and profound benefits .

Prayer, yoga, meditation, chanting mantras, taking communion, baptism, studying scriptures and sacred writings, attending church, temple, Dharma centre, practicing rituals and ceremonies, maintaining an altar and offering Incence or flower, having a guru or spiritual teacher, shamanic practices, sacred drumming or dancing, observing special holy days and honouring natural cycles...

All this is of profound benefit and importance, and requires no particular belief or dogma other then the belief that these practices will bring benefit, which is validated by science and will be confirmed by experience.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22362251 - 10/11/15 09:08 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

dionysiandame said:
...
Similarly, a Hindu in southern India and one in Northern India might not have a bond at all aside from seeing each other during Diwali and even then, their familial and cultural ties are a million times stronger than their religious one.
...



Quote:

akira_akuma said:
...
b: on Hindus: sure, but their bond may not be stronger, but it still exists there, in their religion. do you not think north and south would unite to fight a common enemy? would they not be tied by religion?
...




They may be willing to unite against a common enemy, if they perceive there to be one; however, the bond may not necessarily be religious unless the invading force had declared a religious war.

One of the difficulties with "Hinduism" is that it is a fairly broad term for a variety of faiths that may be, at best, only loosely connected.

There are branches of Vaisnava Hinduism that consider Jains to be a more closely shared community than Shaiva Hindus, for example.
In such an instance, it comes down to a sort of class discrimination, where the Shaiva worshipers are looked down upon for not being as affluent as the other two groups.

If I can dig the study back out, I will try and get you the information on the particulars of the area and sub-sects -- it was in one of my course packs somewhere...


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Tantrika]
    #22362263 - 10/11/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Hinduism / Vedanta has such a sublime body of wisdom - elegant systems Of yoga, philosophy, meditation and medicine, and a magnificent cannon of spiritual literature and poetry.


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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22362346 - 10/11/15 09:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Hinduism / Vedanta has such a sublime body of wisdom - elegant systems Of yoga, philosophy, meditation and medicine, and a magnificent cannon of spiritual literature and poetry.




This really is true.  There is a wealth of work that can touch people from all walks of life.

As regards OP's sentiment of war and religion being tied together, there is also the fact that some of the most renowned works (the Ramayana and the Mahabharata) have war as a core part of their story though -- the Bhagavad Gita kind of stems from a sentiment of a religious obligation to warfare.
Dharma and Karma yoga, the philosophical concepts that tie to the aforementioned obligation, are not necessarily inherently violent tenets though.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: War & Religion are inexorably linked in history and in their conception. [Re: Tantrika]
    #22362427 - 10/11/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

however they do connect. oh and SweetLeaf, you can expound on whatever info you want but don't feel you need to dig through anything to find something for me. that's fine...i know about the many branches of Hinduism, it's quite something...but you even said it, there is affluence between two groups in Hinduism because of one's "link" to Jainism, so this is an example of what i'm talking about...why don't they like a particular branch of their religion because they identify with Jain's more than than the other identifies with them? that's a silly reason for affluence.

PS: Vedic poetry is awesome. the Gayatri Mantra is awesome. sometimes i recite that shit, the Sanskrit, because Sanskrit is awesome.

OM BHUR BHUVAH SVAHA TAT SAVITUR VARENYAM BHARGO DEVASYA DHIMAHI DHIYO YO NAH PRACODAYAT

i don't think that's the Sanskrit and i don't know how to write it, lol.

still boss though.

Vedic and Buddhist literature is really quite nice just as it sounds and in it's depth. apparently even when the Veda's were first written/recited, the language was so fucked-up even people then couldn't decipher it altogether....

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
At the end of the day science proves that religion makes people both happier and healthier. So just be religious and don't start any wars :shrug:



again, i'm talking about connections here...not an ultimatum. i'm not saying Religion = War.

you don't need to read into this thread that way, if you'd prefer not to.


Edited by akira_akuma (10/11/15 10:00 AM)


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