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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Jews and Guns
#22353713 - 10/09/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson says that if German Jews had guns before WWII, fewer would have been murdered by Hitler.
He said: “I think the likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed. I’m telling you there is a reason these dictatorial people take guns first...
...through a combination of removing guns and disseminating propaganda, the Nazis were able to carry out their evil intentions with relatively little resistance." ~ ABC News
By analogy, he suggests that the US government could never become dictatorial precisely because the American people are well-armed and would not stand for it. This being the founders' intent when they wrote the Second, which says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...".
What do you think? Agree or disagree?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
#22353797 - 10/09/15 09:24 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ben Carson rocks
Watch him pwn some socialist hags:
Dr. Ben Carson on Gun Control | The View
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
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Great! Let's hear his mental healthcare platform. I'm all fucking ears.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Great! Let's hear his mental healthcare platform. I'm all fucking ears.
Maybe we can go back to the days of locking them up in institutions...
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Great! Let's hear his mental healthcare platform. I'm all fucking ears.
Maybe we can go back to the days of locking them up in institutions...
What do you mean back in the day?
http://nicic.gov/mentalillness
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
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We only seem to lock them up AFTER they commit crimes, used to be some preemption involved...
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: We only seem to lock them up AFTER they commit crimes, used to be some preemption involved...
If the right wants to keep blaming mental illness instead of guns then they can put together a fucking platform to fix it.
I doubt the people will go for 'lock them all up' but you never know.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Diploid
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Registered: 01/09/03
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You can't just "lock people up" because there isn't always an obvious sign that they need to be locked up. There are many forms of mental illness from simple depression to psychopathic killer, and not all of them merit locking up.
What is needed is ready, easy, free access to mental health services. This isn't even available to people with otherwise full health insurance coverage. Most health plans I've seen provide for broken legs and flu shots, but if you're depressed, you're on your own. Your broken leg doctor will tell you to contact the country health department or some such cop out because your plan doesn't cover psychiatry.
And if you don't have insurance, you can't even self-pay; psychiatrists won't take you as a patient. I have a friend who recently tried to get help for ADD that's causing him trouble at work. He called several psychiatrists. Each call started with him being asked which health insurance company will pay. When he answered that he has no coverage for mental health, they refused to take him even as a self-pay, which as it happens he couldn't afford anyway. The first visit to a shrink alone is often several hundred dollars and that doesn't cover testing, meds, and all the rest.
Until our society gets over the baggage that comes with the phrase "mental illness" and we realize that part of the cost of calling ourselves civilized is taking up the bill to keep our citizens physically and mentally healthy, crazy people will continue to wig out and kill. We need to decide which expense is the greater: massacres or free mental health treatment for all.
Obamacare, for all the good it has done people who would otherwise have to just live sick, fails miserably on mental health.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
#22354628 - 10/09/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Diploid can we can some moderation in this sub?
--------------------
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
#22354630 - 10/09/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: You can't just "lock people up" because there isn't always an obvious sign that they need to be locked up. There are many forms of mental illness from simple depression to psychopathic killer, and not all of them merit locking up.
What is needed is ready, easy, free access to mental health services. This isn't even available to people with otherwise full health insurance coverage. Most health plans I've seen provide for broken legs and flu shots, but if you're depressed, you're on your own. Your broken leg doctor will tell you to contact the country health department or some such cop out because your plan doesn't cover psychiatry.
And if you don't have insurance, you can't even self-pay; psychiatrists won't take you as a patient. I have a friend who recently tried to get help for ADD that's causing him trouble at work. He called several psychiatrists. Each call started with him being asked which health insurance company will pay. When he answered that he has no coverage for mental health, they refused to take him even as a self-pay, which as it happens he couldn't afford anyway. The first visit to a shrink alone is often several hundred dollars and that doesn't cover testing, meds, and all the rest.
Until our society gets over the baggage that comes with the phrase "mental illness" and we realize that part of the cost of calling ourselves civilized is taking up the bill to keep our citizens physically and mentally healthy, crazy people will continue to wig out and kill. We need to decide which expense is the greater: massacres or free mental health treatment for all.
Obamacare, for all the good it has done people who would otherwise have to just live sick, fails miserably on mental health.
I agree and I'd love to see the GOP put together a platform that would insure everyone gets the mental healthcare they need.
Sadly I think they're just scapegoating the gun control issue.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
Diploid said: You can't just "lock people up" because there isn't always an obvious sign that they need to be locked up. There are many forms of mental illness from simple depression to psychopathic killer, and not all of them merit locking up.
What is needed is ready, easy, free access to mental health services. This isn't even available to people with otherwise full health insurance coverage. Most health plans I've seen provide for broken legs and flu shots, but if you're depressed, you're on your own. Your broken leg doctor will tell you to contact the country health department or some such cop out because your plan doesn't cover psychiatry.
And if you don't have insurance, you can't even self-pay; psychiatrists won't take you as a patient. I have a friend who recently tried to get help for ADD that's causing him trouble at work. He called several psychiatrists. Each call started with him being asked which health insurance company will pay. When he answered that he has no coverage for mental health, they refused to take him even as a self-pay, which as it happens he couldn't afford anyway. The first visit to a shrink alone is often several hundred dollars and that doesn't cover testing, meds, and all the rest.
Until our society gets over the baggage that comes with the phrase "mental illness" and we realize that part of the cost of calling ourselves civilized is taking up the bill to keep our citizens physically and mentally healthy, crazy people will continue to wig out and kill. We need to decide which expense is the greater: massacres or free mental health treatment for all.
Obamacare, for all the good it has done people who would otherwise have to just live sick, fails miserably on mental health.
I agree and I'd love to see the GOP put together a platform that would insure everyone gets the mental healthcare they need.
Sadly I think they're just scapegoating the gun control issue.
Dems seem to be pretty good at "health" mandates, you know us gop'rs, "if it ain't about money, then it ain't about me"
Gun control? Every measure I've seen put forward, wouldn't have prevented the mass killings, surely you mean "gun confiscation"
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
#22354744 - 10/09/15 02:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson. Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.
Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance. Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.
As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson. Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.
Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance. Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.
As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.
I think you overestimate the govts ability turn the military against us, I've discussed this with many servicemen, even if only half of them refused, that would be more than plenty to mount an offensive against your liberal socialist Marxist tyrannical govt...
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Dems seem to be pretty good at "health" mandates, you know us gop'rs, "if it ain't about money, then it ain't about me"
That's kinda my point. If the issue is mental health as the gop claims then they can put together a platform for it. Otherwise it's just scapegoating.
Quote:
Gun control? Every measure I've seen put forward, wouldn't have prevented the mass killings, surely you mean "gun confiscation"
You're strawmanning, either intentionally or not. I know many liberals that own guns and support gun control. Gun control is not gun confiscation. That's a strawman argument being pushed by the NRA.
What it does mean?
Banning the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and extended clips. If you already own it, great. Eventually it will end up in the trash or a museum as you're not legally allowed to sell it.
A better system for background checks and closing the gun show loophole.
Personally I would like to see guns regulated like cars. If you commit a violent crime you can not purchase a gun for a period of time as your gun license is suspended. If your gun is used by someone else to commit a crime you can be held accountable. Gun licenses would have a waiting period of at least a month. This waiting period could be reduced by successfully completing a gun safety course and showing that you've purchased a gun safe for your weapons. If you commit a crime using a gun you should lose your gun license permanently.
Guns should be heavily taxed. These taxes should mostly work as an incentive to encourage the purchase of gun safes, trigger locks, and the completion of gun safety courses via point of sale tax breaks. Tax revenue for guns should go towards public awareness campaigns that teach people how to be responsible gun owners as well as the aforementioned gun safety courses.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: I think you overestimate the govts ability turn the military against us, I've discussed this with many servicemen, even if only half of them refused, that would be more than plenty to mount an offensive against your liberal socialist Marxist tyrannical govt...
I tend to agree that this position is overstated. Note that it's actually Carson's position, that we need guns to defend us against government corruption.
However, we have a technologically advanced military that's quite capable of outgunning us if it wanted too. That's my point. Not rather or not service men would pull the trigger.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (10/09/15 02:34 PM)
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Dems seem to be pretty good at "health" mandates, you know us gop'rs, "if it ain't about money, then it ain't about me"
That's kinda my point. If the issue is mental health as the gop claims then they can put together a platform for it. Otherwise it's just scapegoating.
Quote:
Gun control? Every measure I've seen put forward, wouldn't have prevented the mass killings, surely you mean "gun confiscation"
You're strawmanning, either intentionally or not. I know many liberals that own guns and support gun control. Gun control is not gun confiscation. That's a strawman argument being pushed by the NRA.
What it does mean?
Banning the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and extended clips. If you already own it, great. Eventually it will end up in the trash or a museum as you're not legally allowed to sell it.
A better system for background checks and closing the gun show loophole.
Personally I would like to see guns regulated like cars. If you commit a violent crime you can not purchase a gun for a period of time as your gun license is suspended. If your gun is used by someone else to commit a crime you can be held accountable. Gun licenses would have a waiting period of at least a month. This waiting period could be reduced by successfully completing a gun safety course and showing that you've purchased a gun safe for your weapons. If you commit a crime using a gun you should lose your gun license permanently.
Guns should be heavily taxed. These taxes should mostly work as an incentive to encourage the purchase of gun safes, trigger locks, and the completion of gun safety courses via point of sale tax breaks. Tax revenue for guns should go towards public awareness campaigns that teach people how to be responsible gun owners as well as the aforementioned gun safety courses.
So basically outlaw ownership or make it so prohibitively expensive to own one that only the rich will have them? And I thought you were for equality...
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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If you can't afford a trigger lock and a gun safe you can't afford a gun.
The gun safety courses, as I said, would be paid for by tax revenue.
If you have a gun safe and have completed the gun safety course you wouldn't have to pay the gun tax. Like I said, it's there mostly as an incentive for responsible gun ownership.
*edit* Are you suggesting we set up a gun welfare program? Guns already cost enough that not everyone can afford them.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (10/09/15 03:13 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
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Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance. Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.
I don't buy this. If what you say was true, ISIS, taliban, and al-Qaeda wouldn't be as successful as they are against coalitions of the most powerful military forces on the planet.
Had the Jews taken up arms and committed to defending themselves decisively against Hitler, things would have gone down differently for them, IMO.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Posts: 1,888
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
#22355147 - 10/09/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You're talking about insurgent forces. Not civilians. Military could cut off our food supply and wait it out. In fact I've linked an article here before talking about the possibility of militia staving off military aggression. I'll see if I can dig it up.
In the meantime look at some of the tactics Germany used against resistors, both armed and unarmed, during ww2.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/grobres.html
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Here's that article. Note that the military in this scenario, at least superficially, respects the rule of law and tries to minimize casualties. The militia still loses.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2012/11/15/how-the-u-s-military-would-crush-a-tea-party-rebellion/
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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hostileuniverse
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Surrender if you like, I will not be going down without a fight
Geez, what a bunch of sissified sissies this country has become...
"Es mejor morir de pie, que continuar viviendo de rodillias."
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
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You're talking about insurgent forces. Not civilians.
Insurgents were civilians until they took up arms.
Military could cut off our food supply and wait it out.
That doesn't work in Afghanistan. It wouldn't work here either when people entrench and start shooting back.
The only way the US military could credibly put down a determined civilian population fighting back would be to utterly destroy the country and all its infrastructure, thus defeating themselves anyway as they would be left with a wasteland and hundreds of millions of dead civilians and livid, pissed off survivors hell bent on causing trouble. See French Resistance for reference.
Also, what hostileuniverse said: "Es mejor morir de pie, que continuar viviendo de rodillias", better to die on my feet than live on my knees.
I won't go down without a fight, and thanks to the Second, I think enough Americans with this mindset have enough guns to give any military a run for their money. All the military technology in the world can't root out determined guerrilla-style fighters hiding in forests, mountains, and rough terrain, as indeed we see in Afghanistan every day.
Your argument does not hold water.
The militia still loses.
Ah, this must be why they ultimately defeated the Soviet military, and after 10+ years, we're still trying to defeat them in Afghanistan. Got it. 
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
#22355459 - 10/09/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Rebelling against an established government power is way different then fighting a guerrilla war against a foreign power.
The military has already adopted plans for how to deal with insurrection. That study that article referenced was included in the armies 2016 operating concepts.
This isn't going into a foreign country. This is a country full of civilians. A country with military bases already here. Laws, police, and a whole system supporting the government for good or ill.
Here's another article talking about the insurrection scenario.
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Military-Will-Defeat-Any-M-by-Jack-Swint-120924-591.html
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
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Rebelling against an established government power is way different then fighting a guerrilla war against a foreign power.
In what way, exactly? Are the weapons different? Are the logistics of flying weapons to a base 500 miles away in another state substantively different than flying them to a base in 500 miles away in another country? Are different techniques used to kill the body of an American vs a foreigner? I don't think so. You are just making shit up.
Besides, how do you have an "established government power", when the people who run the logistics and infrastructure supporting that power are the ones you're trying to attack? They would not cooperate. They would take up arms instead and there goes your "established government power" down the tubes. Where would the military get food when their civilian food contractors bail for the mountains and start shooting back? How about spare parts? Munitions? Doctors and other clinicians? Medical supplies?
Apples and oranges. Stay on topic.
A country with military bases already here.
We have several bases in Afghanistan and many more nearby, just like we have here. They are well equipped, provisioned, and armed. They've been there for a decade. We're still losing. The Soviets tried for years. They eventually cut and ran with tail between legs.
Afghanistan demonstrably puts the fail to your argument.
The military has already adopted plans for how to deal with insurrection.
That sounds like bullshit considering that it is illegal to use the military against Americans. That's why we have separate police and national guard forces.
Do you have a credible link for that claim?
And if you mean that the American military has plans to deal with a subset of the population causing trouble, a subset with which the majority of the population do not agree, then you are talking about apples, not oranges.
Here's another article
That article is irrelevant.
It addresses the case where a small subset of Americans (specifically, Tea Party radicals) go on the offensive while the great majority of the American population side with the American military against the radicals. It does not in any way address the point on the table, to wit: the near-entirety of the civilian population coming under tyrannical attack by the US military in order to be subjugated.
The US military, the national guard, and even ordinary police could put down a smallish subset of the population going on the offensive because they don't like government policies. That's not the topic under discussion. We're talking about a tyrannical leader sending the military on the offensive against the entirety of the civilian population to subjugate them under his boot, and the 100 million gun-owning Americans shooting back.
That is what the Second guards against.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
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Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson. Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.
Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance. Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.
As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.
I think you overestimate the govts ability turn the military against us, I've discussed this with many servicemen, even if only half of them refused, that would be more than plenty to mount an offensive against your liberal socialist Marxist tyrannical govt...
I agree, the governments biggest fear is the government turning--along with the people--against the government.
Witness 'Plan X' It has long been held that the US Military high staff has long had an unofficial plan in place to remove the president from office by force if they deemed he become a threat to US Security--i.e. if the president turned out to be a despot with an agenda.
Now look at Obama. What did he do? He has had a relatively silent purge of the US military high command.. He took a large number of senior staff officers and 'retired' them, then replaced them with political hacks who were yes men that would squat when he said shit in fear that they would lose their retirements.
Hmmmm.....didn't Stalin do something similar? (Yeah, I know silly conspiracy theory....but interesting.)
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson. Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.
Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance. Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.
As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.
Wrong again, Carson did not say that WWII would have been stopped, but the Jews would have had a fighting chance. Ben Carson said Thursday that Adolf Hitler’s mass murder of Jews “would have been greatly diminished” if German citizens had not been disarmed by the Nazi regime.
Why do socialists prefer that the Jews did not defend themselves?, because socialists are Nazis, and Nazis are socialists.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
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Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson. Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.
Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance. Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.
As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.
Wrong again, Carson did not say that WWII would have been stopped, but the Jews would have had a fighting chance. Ben Carson said Thursday that Adolf Hitler’s mass murder of Jews “would have been greatly diminished” if German citizens had not been disarmed by the Nazi regime.
Why do socialists prefer that the Jews did not defend themselves?, because socialists are Nazis, and Nazis are socialists.
You got to point out that logical fallacy in PB's argument before I got to it. 'wwII would have been stopped' thats the classic way liberals argue.
Unfortunately for the liberals, I think Ben Carson is definitely the smartest person in the room. Some woman on the view was trying to 'gottcha' him over abortion and he completely demolished her. It's only that he is so soft spoken that people seem to think he is weak.
But I understand things from the democrat side well. To them, Ben Carson is Uncle Tom. '
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson. Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.
Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance. Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.
As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.
Wrong again, Carson did not say that WWII would have been stopped, but the Jews would have had a fighting chance. Ben Carson said Thursday that Adolf Hitler’s mass murder of Jews “would have been greatly diminished” if German citizens had not been disarmed by the Nazi regime.
Why do socialists prefer that the Jews did not defend themselves?, because socialists are Nazis, and Nazis are socialists.
You got to point out that logical fallacy in PB's argument before I got to it. 'wwII would have been stopped' thats the classic way liberals argue.
Unfortunately for the liberals, I think Ben Carson is definitely the smartest person in the room. Some woman on the view was trying to 'gottcha' him over abortion and he completely demolished her. It's only that he is so soft spoken that people seem to think he is weak.
But I understand things from the democrat side well. To them, Ben Carson is Uncle Tom. '
Carson was 2nd, in the repub debates as far as I'm concerned, only to Trump. Carson is a neurosurgeon that separated conjoined twins. That dude is fucking genius. I'd vote for him.
HAHA I saw that video about Joy Behar: Once she asked the question: "So you don't believe in evolution" seconds later she didn't like what Carson had to say so Joy goes "Let's go out on a date instead" What a retarded socialist bitch
I think you're right on the way libtards view Carson- case in point Whoopie Goldberg
Edited by burgerbrain (10/09/15 10:24 PM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Negroes are supposed to always vote dem. If they don't, they are traitors or uncle toms. According to the libs anyway. Does that mean whites are always supposed to vote gop? Or are they allowed to make up their own mind?
Carson is in a tie for second place on my list. Trump being first of course, Bernie says some good things but he is too much an extreme leftist to be very good. Carson sounds decent, he might be better than bernout.
The poor negroes will have a fit if carson gets the nomination. They are always supposed to vote for dems and fellow negroes, but here is a gop who is black. What to do?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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why would I have clicked on a thread titled "jews and guns" and expect to see anything but racism, sexism and close mindedness
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: airclay]
#22360973 - 10/10/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
airclay said: why would I have clicked on a thread titled "jews and guns" and expect to see anything but racism, sexism and close mindedness
How is supporting Ben Carson racist? And after all, wasn't it LBJ who said "i'll have those ni....gers voting democrat for the next 200 years'
Democrats--the party of the KKK...
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
#22361900 - 10/11/15 06:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Diploid said: That sounds like bullshit considering that it is illegal to use the military against Americans. That's why we have separate police and national guard forces.
Read the insurrection act.
As to the rest of your post I've demonstrated how people who know a lot more than you or I about this subject think a Tea Party rebellion would go down.
Another scenario would be if we started rounding up a minority and putting them in concentration camps. If the minority was armed I can see them offering some resistance but not enough to save themselves.
What scenario are you imagining? All out war between the military and the people? If so that's not going to happen. It wasn't even close to what happened in Germany either. And neither you nor Ben Carson need to play mental gymnastics with such a scenario to justify your ownership of guns.
As I said earlier, the left isn't for gun confiscation, at least not most of us. And many of us own guns ourselves.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
#22362836 - 10/11/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Soooo, how many guns have you had confiscated lately?
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
#22363067 - 10/11/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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airclay
Morbid and Wrong




Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 2,788
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
airclay said: why would I have clicked on a thread titled "jews and guns" and expect to see anything but racism, sexism and close mindedness
How is supporting Ben Carson racist? And after all, wasn't it LBJ who said "i'll have those ni....gers voting democrat for the next 200 years'
Democrats--the party of the KKK... 
Not at all what I was referring to buy congrats on assuming things and rolling it into a stereotypical attack of "the other side"
-------------------- Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
Diploid said: That sounds like bullshit considering that it is illegal to use the military against Americans. That's why we have separate police and national guard forces.
Read the insurrection act.
As to the rest of your post I've demonstrated how people who know a lot more than you or I about this subject think a Tea Party rebellion would go down.
Who is it that knows so much better than the people what will happen? Would it be Your Savior, The Precious Government?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
Diploid said: That sounds like bullshit considering that it is illegal to use the military against Americans. That's why we have separate police and national guard forces.
Read the insurrection act.
As to the rest of your post I've demonstrated how people who know a lot more than you or I about this subject think a Tea Party rebellion would go down.
Who is it that knows so much better than the people what will happen? Would it be Your Savior, The Precious Government?
Why the persistent disconnect that the government isn't run by the people? Just because the rich have fucked us over with their special interests doesn't make it universal law.
The government is a tool. A tool we use to complete a task. Like a keyboard. Now if I go type an essay on my computer am I calling my keyboard my precious savior? Uhh, no. It's not inherently good, bad, or corrupt. Its a keyboard that I control.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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If the Jews had guns, the German would have killed them with tanks.
The hatred was high back then.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Patlal]
#22365126 - 10/11/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Patlal said: If the Jews had guns, the German would have killed them with tanks.
The hatred was high back then.
You should Read Mila 18, about the Jewish Ghetto in Warsaw. The fucking Nazi SS was afraid to go into it.
It's because you always come down to that last little group of starving rats who say fuck you to the cat trying to eat them.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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I've noticed this with liberals, they think we should all just bend over, the Russians, Muslims, doesn't matter, we should just concede defeat... It's sickening...
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Obumble bows to world leaders which makes him and usa look ridiculous. Some people are calling him obowma now. He looks even more foolish as his multiyear effort to arm "moderate" rebels falls to shit and putin steals his thunder. I'm nervous about what stupid things he will do in the time remaining. He might decide his best shot at a legacy is to start ww3
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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you know how the US really got the captured terrorists at Guantanamo to spill the beans?
The sent one to Israel to get interrogated by the Mossad, and told the rest of them they would turn them over to the Mossad for interrogation. It wasn't by waterboarding.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Waterboarding will do the job, don't kid yourself. The longest anyone including the roughest toughest terrorist lasted under waterboarding was about 2 minutes. They simply have to tell them if you don't give us the info, next time we don't stop. Give them about 5 minutes and tell them that, they will spill the beans, even make up some beans to stop the torture. "we can keep it up all day, can you?"
But yeah, isreal is super brutal. Obumble probably decided it was too cruel for us to do it so he sent them over there and washed his hands of it.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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And they say we weren't respected under Bush, well we're the fucking laughing stock of the world now...
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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I read a story about how 3 mossad agents captured a Palestinian ringleader who had help set off a bomb in a marketplace killing a few old jewish women. They got him in Montevideo (uruguay) and on the SLLLLOOOW flight back to Tel Aviv interrogated him
One of the Mossad, a female, put the terrorists dick in a vise grip, took a a set of jewlers tools, and proceeded to slowly tap a long, thing scribe down his dick. When he begged for them to stop, and told them he would tell them all, they told him, they knew he would tell all. But for now they just wanted to hear him scream.
And they proceeded to completely turn him into a vegetable.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
Diploid said: That sounds like bullshit considering that it is illegal to use the military against Americans. That's why we have separate police and national guard forces.
Read the insurrection act.
As to the rest of your post I've demonstrated how people who know a lot more than you or I about this subject think a Tea Party rebellion would go down.
Who is it that knows so much better than the people what will happen? Would it be Your Savior, The Precious Government?
It's two guys that write for a war journal. One of them is a retired general or some shit.
So no, it wasn't the government. Maybe read the shit I post before putting your foot in your mouth?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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