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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22355274 - 10/09/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Surrender if you like, I will not be going down without a fight

Geez, what a bunch of sissified sissies this country has become...

"Es mejor morir de pie, que continuar viviendo de rodillias."


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Jews and Guns [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22355337 - 10/09/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You're talking about insurgent forces.  Not civilians.

Insurgents were civilians until they took up arms.

Military could cut off our food supply and wait it out.

That doesn't work in Afghanistan. It wouldn't work here either when people entrench and start shooting back.

The only way the US military could credibly put down a determined civilian population fighting back would be to utterly destroy the country and all its infrastructure, thus defeating themselves anyway as they would be left with a wasteland and hundreds of millions of dead civilians and livid, pissed off survivors hell bent on causing trouble. See French Resistance for reference.

Also, what hostileuniverse said: "Es mejor morir de pie, que continuar viviendo de rodillias", better to die on my feet than live on my knees.

I won't go down without a fight, and thanks to the Second, I think enough Americans with this mindset have enough guns to give any military a run for their money. All the military technology in the world can't root out determined guerrilla-style fighters hiding in forests, mountains, and rough terrain, as indeed we see in Afghanistan every day.

Your argument does not hold water.

The militia still loses.

Ah, this must be why they ultimately defeated the Soviet military, and after 10+ years, we're still trying to defeat them in Afghanistan. Got it. :takingnotes:


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
    #22355459 - 10/09/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Rebelling against an established government power is way different then fighting a guerrilla war against a foreign power.

The military has already adopted plans for how to deal with insurrection.  That study that article referenced was included in the armies 2016 operating concepts.

This isn't going into a foreign country.  This is a country full of civilians.  A country with military bases already here.  Laws, police, and a whole system supporting the government for good or ill.

Here's another article talking about the insurrection scenario.

http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Military-Will-Defeat-Any-M-by-Jack-Swint-120924-591.html


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: paperbackwriter] * 1
    #22355561 - 10/09/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Rebelling against an established government power is way different then fighting a guerrilla war against a foreign power.

In what way, exactly? Are the weapons different? Are the logistics of flying weapons to a base 500 miles away in another state substantively different than flying them to a base in 500 miles away in another country? Are different techniques used to kill the body of an American vs a foreigner? I don't think so. You are just making shit up.

Besides, how do you have an "established government power", when the people who run the logistics and infrastructure supporting that power are the ones you're trying to attack? They would not cooperate. They would take up arms instead and there goes your "established government power" down the tubes. Where would the military get food when their civilian food contractors bail for the mountains and start shooting back? How about spare parts? Munitions? Doctors and other clinicians? Medical supplies?

Apples and oranges. Stay on topic.

A country with military bases already here.

We have several bases in Afghanistan and many more nearby, just like we have here. They are well equipped, provisioned, and armed. They've been there for a decade. We're still losing. The Soviets tried for years. They eventually cut and ran with tail between legs.

Afghanistan demonstrably puts the fail to your argument.

The military has already adopted plans for how to deal with insurrection.

That sounds like bullshit considering that it is illegal to use the military against Americans. That's why we have separate police and national guard forces.

Do you have a credible link for that claim?

And if you mean that the American military has plans to deal with a subset of the population causing trouble, a subset with which the majority of the population do not agree, then you are talking about apples, not oranges.

Here's another article

That article is irrelevant.

It addresses the case where a small subset of Americans (specifically, Tea Party radicals) go on the offensive while the great majority of the American population side with the American military against the radicals. It does not in any way address the point on the table, to wit: the near-entirety of the civilian population coming under tyrannical attack by the US military in order to be subjugated.

The US military, the national guard, and even ordinary police could put down a smallish subset of the population going on the offensive because they don't like government policies. That's not the topic under discussion. We're talking about a tyrannical leader sending the military on the offensive against the entirety of the civilian population to subjugate them under his boot, and the 100 million gun-owning Americans shooting back.

That is what the Second guards against.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22356473 - 10/09/15 09:08 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson.  Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.

Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance.  Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.

As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.




I think you overestimate the govts ability turn the military against us, I've discussed this with many servicemen, even if only half of them refused, that would be more than plenty to mount an offensive against your liberal socialist Marxist tyrannical govt...




I agree, the governments biggest fear is the government turning--along with the people--against the government.

Witness 'Plan X' It has long been held that the US Military high staff has long had an unofficial plan in place to remove the president from office by force if they deemed he become a threat to US Security--i.e. if the president turned out to be a despot with an agenda.

Now look at Obama.  What did he do?  He has had a relatively silent purge of the US military high command..  He took a large number of senior staff officers and 'retired' them, then replaced them with political hacks who were yes men that would squat when he said shit in fear that they would lose their retirements.

Hmmmm.....didn't Stalin do something similar?  (Yeah, I know silly conspiracy theory....but interesting.)


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Jews and Guns [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22356619 - 10/09/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson.  Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.

Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance.  Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.

As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.




Wrong again, Carson did not say that WWII would have been stopped, but the Jews would have had a fighting chance.
Ben Carson said Thursday that Adolf Hitler’s mass murder of Jews “would have been greatly diminished” if German citizens had not been disarmed by the Nazi regime.

Why do socialists prefer that the Jews did not defend themselves?, because socialists are Nazis, and Nazis are socialists.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22356743 - 10/09/15 10:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson.  Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.

Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance.  Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.

As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.




Wrong again, Carson did not say that WWII would have been stopped, but the Jews would have had a fighting chance.
Ben Carson said Thursday that Adolf Hitler’s mass murder of Jews “would have been greatly diminished” if German citizens had not been disarmed by the Nazi regime.

Why do socialists prefer that the Jews did not defend themselves?, because socialists are Nazis, and Nazis are socialists.




You got to point out that logical fallacy in PB's argument before I got to it.  'wwII would have been stopped'  thats the classic way liberals argue.

Unfortunately for the liberals, I think Ben Carson is definitely the smartest person in the room.  Some woman on the view was trying to 'gottcha' him over abortion and he completely demolished her.  It's only that he is so soft spoken that people seem to think he is weak.

But I understand things from the democrat side well.  To them, Ben Carson is Uncle Tom.
'


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Jews and Guns [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22356771 - 10/09/15 10:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
On the subject of the op I disagree with Carson.  Antisemitism, military training, and military technology would have been enough for ww2 to go down the way it did rather or not the Jews had been armed.

Likewise if the might of the US military was turned on us we wouldn't stand a chance.  Maybe it was the intent of the founding Fathers but military technology has far surpassed what civilians can afford let alone legally own.

As time goes on and drone technology is used more the gap gets wider.




Wrong again, Carson did not say that WWII would have been stopped, but the Jews would have had a fighting chance.
Ben Carson said Thursday that Adolf Hitler’s mass murder of Jews “would have been greatly diminished” if German citizens had not been disarmed by the Nazi regime.

Why do socialists prefer that the Jews did not defend themselves?, because socialists are Nazis, and Nazis are socialists.




You got to point out that logical fallacy in PB's argument before I got to it.  'wwII would have been stopped'  thats the classic way liberals argue.

Unfortunately for the liberals, I think Ben Carson is definitely the smartest person in the room.  Some woman on the view was trying to 'gottcha' him over abortion and he completely demolished her.  It's only that he is so soft spoken that people seem to think he is weak.

But I understand things from the democrat side well.  To them, Ben Carson is Uncle Tom.
'




Carson was 2nd, in the repub debates as far as I'm concerned, only to Trump. Carson is a neurosurgeon that separated conjoined twins. That dude is fucking genius. I'd vote for him.

HAHA I saw that video about Joy Behar: Once she asked the question: "So you don't believe in evolution" seconds later she didn't like what Carson had to say so Joy goes "Let's go out on a date instead" What a retarded socialist bitch


I think you're right on the way libtards view Carson- case in point Whoopie Goldberg


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Edited by burgerbrain (10/09/15 10:24 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: burgerbrain] * 1
    #22359965 - 10/10/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Negroes are supposed to always vote dem. If they don't, they are traitors or uncle toms. According to the libs anyway. Does that mean whites are always supposed to vote gop? Or are they allowed to make up their own mind?

Carson is in a tie for second place on my list. Trump being first of course, Bernie says some good things but he is too much an extreme leftist to be very good. Carson sounds decent, he might be better than bernout.

The poor negroes will have a fit if carson gets the nomination. They are always supposed to vote for dems and fellow negroes, but here is a gop who is black. What to do?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22360056 - 10/10/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

why would I have clicked on a thread titled "jews and guns" and expect to see anything but racism, sexism and close mindedness


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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: airclay]
    #22360973 - 10/10/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

airclay said:
why would I have clicked on a thread titled "jews and guns" and expect to see anything but racism, sexism and close mindedness





How is supporting Ben Carson racist?  And after all, wasn't it LBJ who said "i'll have those ni....gers voting democrat for the next 200 years'

Democrats--the party of the KKK...  :highfive:


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
    #22361900 - 10/11/15 06:56 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
That sounds like bullshit considering that it is illegal to use the military against Americans. That's why we have separate police and national guard forces.






Read the insurrection act. 

As to the rest of your post I've demonstrated how people who know a lot more than you or I about this subject think a Tea Party rebellion would go down.

Another scenario would be if we started rounding up a minority and putting them in concentration camps.  If the minority was armed I can see them offering some resistance but not enough to save themselves.

What scenario are you imagining?  All out war between the military and the people?  If so that's not going to happen.  It wasn't even close to what happened in Germany either.  And neither you nor Ben Carson need to play mental gymnastics with such a scenario to justify your ownership of guns.

As I said earlier, the left isn't for gun confiscation, at least not most of us.  And many of us own guns ourselves.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
    #22362836 - 10/11/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Soooo, how many guns have you had confiscated lately?


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Invisibleburgerbrain
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Diploid]
    #22363067 - 10/11/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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Invisibleairclay
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22363765 - 10/11/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

airclay said:
why would I have clicked on a thread titled "jews and guns" and expect to see anything but racism, sexism and close mindedness





How is supporting Ben Carson racist?  And after all, wasn't it LBJ who said "i'll have those ni....gers voting democrat for the next 200 years'

Democrats--the party of the KKK...  :highfive:




Not at all what I was referring to buy congrats on assuming things and rolling it into a stereotypical attack of "the other side"


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22364042 - 10/11/15 04:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
That sounds like bullshit considering that it is illegal to use the military against Americans. That's why we have separate police and national guard forces.






Read the insurrection act. 

As to the rest of your post I've demonstrated how people who know a lot more than you or I about this subject think a Tea Party rebellion would go down.







Who is it that knows so much better than the people what will happen?  Would it be Your Savior, The Precious Government?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22364612 - 10/11/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
That sounds like bullshit considering that it is illegal to use the military against Americans. That's why we have separate police and national guard forces.






Read the insurrection act. 

As to the rest of your post I've demonstrated how people who know a lot more than you or I about this subject think a Tea Party rebellion would go down.







Who is it that knows so much better than the people what will happen?  Would it be Your Savior, The Precious Government?




Why the persistent disconnect that the government isn't run by the people? Just because the rich have fucked us over with their special interests doesn't make it universal law.

The government is a tool. A tool we use to complete a task. Like a keyboard. Now if I go type an essay on my computer am I calling my keyboard my precious savior? Uhh, no. It's not inherently good, bad, or corrupt. Its a keyboard that I control.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22364995 - 10/11/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If the Jews had guns, the German would have killed them with tanks.

The hatred was high back then.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: Patlal]
    #22365126 - 10/11/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
If the Jews had guns, the German would have killed them with tanks.

The hatred was high back then.





You should Read Mila 18, about the Jewish Ghetto in Warsaw.  The fucking Nazi SS was afraid to go into it. 

It's because you always come down to that last little group of starving rats who say fuck you to the cat trying to eat them.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Jews and Guns [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22365190 - 10/11/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I've noticed this with liberals, they think we should all just bend over, the Russians, Muslims, doesn't matter, we should just concede defeat... It's sickening...


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