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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22444795 - 10/28/15 01:05 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

Are you willfully ignorant? Or just don't think I can cite sources?

Here's ONE county that could save $117,000 in ONE year, but surely they're the only ones, right?

http://m.wgal.com/news/Lancaster-County-second-in-pursuing-welfare-fraud-cases/17668426




Just trying to determine if you're actually talking about federal or state spending.  I have no doubt there is enormous abuse in social spending and it needs to be focused on ... I'd just focus on military spending and corporate welfare first because it's so much easier to find and there are some really big numbers there.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22445179 - 10/28/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Everything with government is abused, so lets have a larger more powerful government so that the abuse can grow!  Vive la socialism lets all abuse government power!  That's how we become prosperous and help the poor.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22445238 - 10/28/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
"What I mean by this is that proponents of these ideals always seem to have a swift answer to the most complex problems the world faces.

Poverty? Government stooges will fix it.
Corrupt government? Government stooges will fix it.
Income inequality? Government stooges will fix it.
Geopolitics? Government stooges will fix it.
Racism? Government stooges will fix it.

Granted, these views don't represent all the proponents of said philosophies, but I'm speaking on what I see most often.
.
.
.
I noticed the libs have yet to prove the OP wrong.



Lol... you prove yourself wrong 50% of the time! Lmao!



Actually, in this case I think he's right.  We haven't haven't been able to prove the OP wrong yet.  The OP said liberals' answer to the world's problems is that Government WILL fix those problems, and no one's disproven that Government will fix them.  :lol:




Hehe, which problems has government fixed and at what cost? Please tell us more. :lolsy:



You claimed no one's disproven your OP (that Government CAN fix problems), and I agreed with you on that point.

I have a feeling you really didn't mean to say that no one has been able to disprove Government can fix problems.  Supporting wooof's point that you prove yourself wrong 50% of the time.  But I guess that went over everyone's head, so never mind.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Shins]
    #22445597 - 10/28/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Everything with government is abused, so lets have a larger more powerful government so that the abuse can grow!  Vive la socialism lets all abuse government power!  That's how we become prosperous and help the poor.




According to the wibberals, that's absolutely correct!


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22446117 - 10/28/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Everything with government is abused, so lets have a larger more powerful government so that the abuse can grow!  Vive la socialism lets all abuse government power!  That's how we become prosperous and help the poor.




According to the wibberals, that's absolutely correct!




... After months of strawmanning liberal positions, I think you guys are essentially saying that you give up, and we're right. Otherwise you wouldn't casually throw things like 'yup, librawls wants big stupid government and the love corruption' randomly with no pertinence in the context of any of our conversations.

I know that's your go-to, when you're in over your head, but it's not hiding your incompetence or intellectual inferiority.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22446196 - 10/28/15 07:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

It's just one straw man after another.  :shake:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22446208 - 10/28/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's just one straw man after another.  :shake:




It's just fucking pitiful. Every now and then one of these fucking windbags throws up a repeatedly denounced strawman out of the blue, for no fucking reason within the context of the conversation... Then they all band together to have a chuckle about 'libtards', and find some validation in their collective intellectual circle jerking.

I know why silly assholes vote Republican. They can't even follow a simple chain of logic, and their positions are unshaken despite the evidence. It's Southern inbreeding. There's no other explanation.

By the way... Sam fucking Brownback! Nuff Said.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (10/28/15 07:12 PM)


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22446213 - 10/28/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's just one straw man after another.  :shake:




Herp derp, I've presented plenty of facts, y'all the ones strawing, fucking libs, ignoring h facts and attacking the truth, same ol story...


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Shins] * 1
    #22446227 - 10/28/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's just one straw man after another.  :shake:




Herp derp, I've presented plenty of facts, y'all the ones strawing, fucking libs, ignoring h facts and attacking the truth, same ol story...




This is what I was referring to, and you do it all the fucking time too:

Quote:

Shins said:
Everything with government is abused, so lets have a larger more powerful government so that the abuse can grow!  Vive la socialism lets all abuse government power!  That's how we become prosperous and help the poor.




--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22446235 - 10/28/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's just one straw man after another.  :shake:




Herp derp, I've presented plenty of facts, y'all the ones strawing, fucking libs, ignoring h facts and attacking the truth, same ol story...




This is what I was referring to, and you do it all the fucking time too:

Quote:

Shins said:
Everything with government is abused, so lets have a larger more powerful government so that the abuse can grow!  Vive la socialism lets all abuse government power!  That's how we become prosperous and help the poor.







Well, it's a fact, that seems to be y'all's position, give more money to the federal govt and somehow magically cut waste fraud and abuse, right?


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22446278 - 10/28/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

As far as spending,  Bernie Sanders is proposing massive amounts of new spending and new taxes.  And here is his plan to pay for it:



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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22446285 - 10/28/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
As far as spending,  Bernie Sanders is proposing massive amounts of new spending and new taxes.  And here is his plan to pay for it:






Lol! Yeah the same people who demand GOP cut govt support govt expansion over some BS, it boggles the mind


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22446514 - 10/28/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Well, it's a fact, that seems to be y'all's position, give more money to the federal govt and somehow magically cut waste fraud and abuse, right?



No, that's no one's position.  It's a straw man that you made up.  Why don't go back and see if you can quote someone who took that position.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22446644 - 10/28/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Well, it's a fact, that seems to be y'all's position, give more money to the federal govt and somehow magically cut waste fraud and abuse, right?



No, that's no one's position.  It's a straw man that you made up.  Why don't go back and see if you can quote someone who took that position.




Code:
everyone who advotes raises taxes before any of these problems is fixed



Yeah, that's their position


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22447169 - 10/28/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
It's just fucking pitiful. Every now and then one of these fucking windbags throws up a repeatedly denounced strawman out of the blue, for no fucking reason within the context of the conversation... Then they all band together to have a chuckle about 'libtards', and find some validation in their collective intellectual circle jerking.

I know why silly assholes vote Republican. They can't even follow a simple chain of logic, and their positions are unshaken despite the evidence. It's Southern inbreeding. There's no other explanation.

By the way... Sam fucking Brownback! Nuff Said.




Quote:

starfire_xes said:
As far as spending,  Bernie Sanders is proposing massive amounts of new spending and new taxes.  And here is his plan to pay for it:






Case and point.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22447955 - 10/29/15 06:31 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Everything with government is abused, so lets have a larger more powerful government so that the abuse can grow!  Vive la socialism lets all abuse government power!  That's how we become prosperous and help the poor.




According to the wibberals, that's absolutely correct!




... After months of strawmanning liberal positions, I think you guys are essentially saying that you give up, and we're right. Otherwise you wouldn't casually throw things like 'yup, librawls wants big stupid government and the love corruption' randomly with no pertinence in the context of any of our conversations.

I know that's your go-to, when you're in over your head, but it's not hiding your incompetence or intellectual inferiority.




Well golly gee, you're just to darn smart

Don't argue with the Woof guys! If you present facts, he'll just ignore them and claim you never presented them, reply with a gif and declare how dumb you are and how superior he is, then he'll tell you how dumb you are again, just in case you didn't catch it the first time

And that's how wibberals win


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #22447961 - 10/29/15 06:35 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

Well golly gee, you're just to darn smart

Don't argue with the Woof guys! If you present facts, he'll just ignore them and claim you never presented them, reply with a gif and declare how dumb you are and how superior he is, then he'll tell you how dumb you are again, just in case you didn't catch it the first time

And that's how wibberals win




What you tend to do, in your argument/rhetoric style, is to present a stereotyped argument you disagree with and accuse your adversary of holding that argument, when, in fact, they don't or certainly haven't indicated they do.

For instance, you say lots of positive things about Trump.  Trump has written extensively about deceiving his lenders and investors.  Why do you support deceiving investors?

See how that works?  It's dishonest. 

Everyone on this thread wants to see less corruption, less collusion, less crony capitalism, less waste, less corporate welfare and less long term dependence on government.  Yet you can't accept that.  I accept you feel this way and so do the people you disagree with.  Republicans and Democrats have, TOGETHER, created the mess we're in.  It is not clear that the Republicans are serious about getting rid of crony capitalism, shrinking government, getting after fraud, cutting spending or cutting debt yet you just assume they are.  I'm an independent that has been EXTREMELY disappointed in the GOP and just don't trust them anymore as a party. 

Trump comes across to me as another big government blowhard that will enable even more crony capitalism and legislation that favors big corporations over small ones.  To  make deals you have to compromise and he keeps shouting MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY because everyone except me is incompetent or stupid or both.  That's just not going to work when you need to compromise with the other party and others in your own party.  Because I doubt Trump's ability to get much done doesn't mean I'm a socialism pushing commie as you and others keep asserting.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (10/29/15 07:10 AM)


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22448127 - 10/29/15 07:37 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

Well golly gee, you're just to darn smart

Don't argue with the Woof guys! If you present facts, he'll just ignore them and claim you never presented them, reply with a gif and declare how dumb you are and how superior he is, then he'll tell you how dumb you are again, just in case you didn't catch it the first time

And that's how wibberals win




What you tend to do, in your argument/rhetoric style, is to present a stereotyped argument you disagree with and accuse your adversary of holding that argument, when, in fact, they don't or certainly haven't indicated they do.

For instance, you say lots of positive things about Trump.  Trump has written extensively about deceiving his lenders and investors.  Why do you support deceiving investors?

See how that works?  It's dishonest. 

Everyone on this thread wants to see less corruption, less collusion, less crony capitalism, less waste, less corporate welfare and less long term dependence on government.  Yet you can't accept that.  I accept you feel this way and so do the people you disagree with.  Republicans and Democrats have, TOGETHER, created the mess we're in.  It is not clear that the Republicans are serious about getting rid of crony capitalism, shrinking government, getting after fraud, cutting spending or cutting debt yet you just assume they are.  I'm an independent that has been EXTREMELY disappointed in the GOP and just don't trust them anymore as a party. 

Trump comes across to me as another big government blowhard that will enable even more crony capitalism and legislation that favors big corporations over small ones.  To  make deals you have to compromise and he keeps shouting MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY because everyone except me is incompetent or stupid or both.  That's just not going to work when you need to compromise with the other party and others in your own party.  Because I doubt Trump's ability to get much done doesn't mean I'm a socialism pushing commie as you and others keep asserting.



What you're forgetting is I don't want to give either party more money, and more power, and more control over our lives. There are voices here that claim the same thing, and then advocate for programs and candidates that will exponentially expand governmental control. You really can't have it both ways, either you're for more govt control over our lives or you're not, and people that want govt to control healthcare, the banks, salaries and every other facet of our lives can not claim to want less govt waste fraud or abuse


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22448614 - 10/29/15 10:20 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
either you're for more govt control over our lives or you're not, and people that want govt to control healthcare, the banks, salaries and every other facet of our lives can not claim to want less govt waste fraud or abuse



How does providing people with healthcare who couldn't afford it before "control our lives"?  How does regulating the banks to ensure there isn't another economic meltdown "control our lives"?  How does giving people more spending money "control our lives"?

These things have just the opposite effect.  More money actually gives people more freedom, as they can determine where they want to live, what they want to buy, and worry less about their future.  It's ironic that you complain people aren't doing well today, while at the same time fighting policies that would improve that.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22448770 - 10/29/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
either you're for more govt control over our lives or you're not, and people that want govt to control healthcare, the banks, salaries and every other facet of our lives can not claim to want less govt waste fraud or abuse



How does providing people with healthcare who couldn't afford it before "control our lives"?  How does regulating the banks to ensure there isn't another economic meltdown "control our lives"?  How does giving people more spending money "control our lives"?

These things have just the opposite effect.  More money actually gives people more freedom, as they can determine where they want to live, what they want to buy, and worry less about their future.  It's ironic that you complain people aren't doing well today, while at the same time fighting policies that would improve that.




Forcing people to buy insurance plans they don't need or want?

Forcing banks to give loans to people who can't afford and shouldn't own a house?

How does taxing people more give them more money?

How does forcing employers to pay their employees more than their worth help those who are worth more?


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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