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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: burgerbrain]
#22443191 - 10/28/15 02:46 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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burgerbrain said:
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Bigbadwooof said:
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burgerbrain said: "What I mean by this is that proponents of these ideals always seem to have a swift answer to the most complex problems the world faces.
Poverty? Government stooges will fix it. Corrupt government? Government stooges will fix it. Income inequality? Government stooges will fix it. Geopolitics? Government stooges will fix it. Racism? Government stooges will fix it.
Granted, these views don't represent all the proponents of said philosophies, but I'm speaking on what I see most often. . . . I noticed the libs have yet to prove the OP wrong.
Lol... you prove yourself wrong 50% of the time! Lmao!
Hehe, list an example or are you bullshitting again, Obowmabot?
Actually, in this case I think he's right. We haven't haven't been able to prove the OP wrong yet. The OP said liberals' answer to the world's problems is that Government WILL fix those problems, and no one's disproven that Government will fix them.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22444135 - 10/28/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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burgerbrain said:
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Bigbadwooof said:
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burgerbrain said: "What I mean by this is that proponents of these ideals always seem to have a swift answer to the most complex problems the world faces.
Poverty? Government stooges will fix it. Corrupt government? Government stooges will fix it. Income inequality? Government stooges will fix it. Geopolitics? Government stooges will fix it. Racism? Government stooges will fix it.
Granted, these views don't represent all the proponents of said philosophies, but I'm speaking on what I see most often. . . . I noticed the libs have yet to prove the OP wrong.
Lol... you prove yourself wrong 50% of the time! Lmao!
Hehe, list an example or are you bullshitting again, Obowmabot?
Actually, in this case I think he's right. We haven't haven't been able to prove the OP wrong yet. The OP said liberals' answer to the world's problems is that Government WILL fix those problems, and no one's disproven that Government will fix them. 
Hehe, which problems has government fixed and at what cost? Please tell us more.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: burgerbrain] 1
#22444156 - 10/28/15 10:00 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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burgerbrain said:
Hehe, which problems has government fixed and at what cost? Please tell us more. 
1) Elimination of Hitler/Nazi Germany 2) Building of infrastructure (mostly under Ike) that gave America a big competitive boost 3) A much better legal system than the rest of the developed world making US capital markets far more attractive 4) A nation-wide publicly funded research university system that gave America a HUGE advantage from the 50's - 90's and still, to some extent today.
Just for starters.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22444177 - 10/28/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
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burgerbrain said:
Hehe, which problems has government fixed and at what cost? Please tell us more. 
1) Elimination of Hitler/Nazi Germany 2) Building of infrastructure (mostly under Ike) that gave America a big competitive boost 3) A much better legal system than the rest of the developed world making US capital markets far more attractive 4) A nation-wide publicly funded research university system that gave America a HUGE advantage from the 50's - 90's and still, to some extent today.
Just for starters.
You didn't mention cost. All this at the low low price of 123 Trillion dollars! The free market could have done all of this (except go to war on foreign soil), just at a much lower cost, and with more efficiency.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: burgerbrain]
#22444188 - 10/28/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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burgerbrain said:
You didn't mention cost. All this at the low low price of 123 Trillion dollars! The free market could have done all of this, just at a much lower cost, and with more efficiency.
How exactly would the "free market" have defeated Hilter/Nazi Germany?
How exactly does the free market run our nation's legal system?
Without publicly funded research universities, the education levels in America would be much lower and, as such, innovation would be much lower as well.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22444206 - 10/28/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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KauaiOrca said:
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burgerbrain said:
You didn't mention cost. All this at the low low price of 123 Trillion dollars! The free market could have done all of this, just at a much lower cost, and with more efficiency.
How exactly would the "free market" have defeated Hilter/Nazi Germany?
How exactly does the free market run our nation's legal system?
Without publicly funded research universities, the education levels in America would be much lower and, as such, innovation would be much lower as well.
Nobody said that the free market would have defeated Germany. It would have kept Germany out of the USA though.
A system of individuals could be set up that is not funded by the government coffers-could get all legal work done. Or did you not know this? Go take an Economics course.
Actually government intervention has driven up prices for students to an all time high- Just look:
Under Obama, Student Loans Hit A Record High October 28, 2015 By Bre Payton Graduates from the class of 2014 can thank President Obama that they’re exiting college with the highest student loan burden ever. They graduated with an average of $28,950 in student loans, according to a new study by the Institute for College Access and Success (TICAS). http://thefederalist.com/2015/10/28/under-obama-student-loans-hit-a-record-high/
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Posts: 3,131
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: burgerbrain]
#22444214 - 10/28/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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burgerbrain said:
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KauaiOrca said:
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burgerbrain said:
You didn't mention cost. All this at the low low price of 123 Trillion dollars! The free market could have done all of this, just at a much lower cost, and with more efficiency.
How exactly would the "free market" have defeated Hilter/Nazi Germany?
How exactly does the free market run our nation's legal system?
Without publicly funded research universities, the education levels in America would be much lower and, as such, innovation would be much lower as well.
Nobody said that the free market would have defeated Germany. It would have kept Germany out of the USA though.
]
That's the dumbest thing you've said so far. You do realize the Nazi's were developing nuclear weapons and were way ahead of us on the technology when we entered the war. If they defeated Europe, which they would have without our help, they would have had nuclear weapons to attack us with ...
How would the "free markets" have prevented this?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,854
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22444289 - 10/28/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nobody said that the free market would have defeated Germany. It would have kept Germany out of the USA though.
right, because corporations HATE fascism...
http://www.businesspundit.com/10-global-businesses-that-worked-with-the-nazis/
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On reflection, the collusion of Chase Bank (now J.P. Morgan Chase), with the Nazis isn’t so surprising. One of its major shareholders, J.D. Rockefeller, had directly funded Nazi eugenics experiments before the war. Between 1936 and 1941, Chase and other US banks helped the Germans raise over $20 million in dollar exchange, netting over $1.2 million in commission — of which Chase pocketed a cool $500,000. That was a lot of money at the time. The fact that the German marks used to fund the operation came from Jews who had fled Nazi Germany didn’t seem to bother Chase — in fact they upped their business after Kristallnacht (the night Jews throughout Nazi Germany and Austria were systematically attacked by mobs in 1938). Chase also froze the accounts of French Jews in occupied France before the Nazis had even gotten around to asking them to.
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-american-companies-that-aided-the-nazis.php
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In 1933, International Business Machines began providing Germany with punchcard machines that functioned as precursors to modern computers and databases. Documents have since been uncovered that show that as late as 1941, IBM was working in tandem with the Reich to liquidate Jews from Holland. IBM employees were training SS personnel how to use their machines to record the movement, sorting, and mass execution of large numbers of undesirables, at times right in the headquarters of death camps. These machines, however, remained IBM property at all times.
Thank god that the Free Market was so vigilant in protecting us from the Nazis...
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22444538 - 10/28/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
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burgerbrain said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
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burgerbrain said:
You didn't mention cost. All this at the low low price of 123 Trillion dollars! The free market could have done all of this, just at a much lower cost, and with more efficiency.
How exactly would the "free market" have defeated Hilter/Nazi Germany?
How exactly does the free market run our nation's legal system?
Without publicly funded research universities, the education levels in America would be much lower and, as such, innovation would be much lower as well.
Nobody said that the free market would have defeated Germany. It would have kept Germany out of the USA though.
]
That's the dumbest thing you've said so far. You do realize the Nazi's were developing nuclear weapons and were way ahead of us on the technology when we entered the war. If they defeated Europe, which they would have without our help, they would have had nuclear weapons to attack us with ...
How would the "free markets" have prevented this?
And yet, you advocated in another thread to massively cut the military, so which is it? Is military might good or bad?
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22444546 - 10/28/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse said:
And yet, you advocated in another thread to massively cut the military, so which is it? Is military might good or bad?
With a 25% cut, smart management and a massive purge of waste, we'd still have the most expensive and powerful military in the world. So, yes, I'm for a strong military.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: ballsalsa]
#22444557 - 10/28/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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ballsalsa said:
Thank god that the Free Market was so vigilant in protecting us from the Nazis...
LMAO!!! And, of course, there's that little "indiscretion" of Prescott Bush and Brown Brothers Harriman helping fund the Nazis ... Let's not forget that free market safeguard against the Nazis
http://www.georgewalkerbush.net/bushfamilyfundedhitler.htm
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22444568 - 10/28/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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KauaiOrca said:
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hostileuniverse said:
And yet, you advocated in another thread to massively cut the military, so which is it? Is military might good or bad?
With a 25% cut, smart management and a massive purge of waste, we'd still have the most expensive and powerful military in the world. So, yes, I'm for a strong military.
Yet, we can't cut waste and manage better any of the other 430 agencies?
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22444573 - 10/28/15 11:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse said:
Yet, we can't cut waste and manage better any of the other 430 agencies?
I didn't say that ... I said I'd start with the military and when that was done, I'd build on that success and move to other high value targets.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22444595 - 10/28/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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KauaiOrca said:
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hostileuniverse said:
Yet, we can't cut waste and manage better any of the other 430 agencies?
I didn't say that ... I said I'd start with the military and when that was done, I'd build on that success and move to other high value targets.
Right, just like in the eighties when the GOP traded amnesty for border security? Guess which one never happened?
slash the military first? The rest would never happen
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22444602 - 10/28/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
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hostileuniverse said:
Yet, we can't cut waste and manage better any of the other 430 agencies?
I didn't say that ... I said I'd start with the military and when that was done, I'd build on that success and move to other high value targets.
Right, just like in the eighties when the GOP traded amnesty for border security? Guess which one never happened?
slash the military first? The rest would never happen
A 25% cut in military spending would have far more positive impact than cuts to discretionary spending on many levels.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22444616 - 10/28/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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How so?
So the military should get cuts but not the welfare leeches? That's bullshit anyway
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22444637 - 10/28/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse said: How so?
So the military should get cuts but not the welfare leeches? That's bullshit anyway
What "welfare leaches?" Are you talking about medicare and social security recipients? That's where most (90%+) of social safety net spending is.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22444642 - 10/28/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: How so?
So the military should get cuts but not the welfare leeches? That's bullshit anyway
What "welfare leaches?" Are you talking about medicare and social security recipients? That's where most (90%+) of social safety net spending is.
Yes, it's a well known fact that welfare, along with SSI is very abused program
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22444662 - 10/28/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse said:
Yes, it's a well known fact that welfare, along with SSI is very abused program
Be specific. What welfare are you talking about?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Posts: 8,602
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Re: Socialism, Communism, Collectivism, and Democratic Socialism is intellectual laziness [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22444771 - 10/28/15 01:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Yes, it's a well known fact that welfare, along with SSI is very abused program
Be specific. What welfare are you talking about?
Are you willfully ignorant? Or just don't think I can cite sources?
Here's ONE county that could save $117,000 in ONE year, but surely they're the only ones, right?
http://m.wgal.com/news/Lancaster-County-second-in-pursuing-welfare-fraud-cases/17668426
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