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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22384729 - 10/15/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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paperbackwriter said:
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burgerbrain said:
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paperbackwriter said:
You realize that in this graph we rank number 7. Behind Russia, Turkey, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Philippines, and Thailand. Norway ranks number 22. The bottom 90% also control nearly 10% more of the wealth.
The income gap is much smaller in Norway too with more people making more money overall.
LOL the income gap is not "much smaller" for the wealthiest of people the difference between the USA and Norway is just 9% wealth... I guess you can't read?
Income does not equal wealth. I was referring to the income gap as represented by that chart I posted that you quoted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
You should cite which graph your talking about next time.
Oh you want to talk about income? Before tax or after tax?
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22384754 - 10/15/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was referring to both. The graph you posted when I talked about wealth and the income graph when I was talking of income.
As I pointed out in my very first post you're cherry picking the data to try to make an argument.
Also...
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: *edit*
You also failed to invalidate anything else I said. I take it you agree then that Norway is doing better than us when it comes to wealth inequality? As clearly represented by your graph?
Maybe you should campaign for Bernie.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22384775 - 10/15/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I was referring to both. The graph you posted when I talked about wealth and the income graph when I was talking of income.
As I pointed out in my very first post you're cherry picking the data to try to make an argument.
Also...
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: *edit*
You also failed to invalidate anything else I said. I take it you agree then that Norway is doing better than us when it comes to wealth inequality? As clearly represented by your graph?
Maybe you should campaign for Bernie.
Well after tax USA outdoes Norway income by far. That's why Norwegians don't have any WEALTH.
Actually Wealth Inequality is not an issue, so how could a country "do better" at a non-issue.
I was merely pointing out that the socialist Utopia Norway is not all rainbows and unicorns like you socialists would have people believe.
Bernie is a socialist that wants to tax people into the poorhouse (IE. Norway)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Registered: 03/16/05
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Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22384800 - 10/15/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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burgerbrain said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Care to explain which facts and figures you are referring to?
It's obvious to everyone but you.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I know. Your data is about 15 years old. Here's more current data on the top 10%, showing the US has now surpassed Denmark and Switzerland in income inequality. [image]http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/543d5e206da811992e9f1586-784-606/top ten percent wealth share table.png[/image]
For the third time, I never claimed there was no income inequality in other countries. Only that socialist countries have less income inequality.
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Wealth is only higher in the US if you factor in the 400 wealthiest Americans, who own 62% of all wealth. 
Defeated
No, I've provided evidence that median wealth IS higher in other countries. Average wealth is only higher in the US because the wealthiest 400 Americans own 62% of the wealth. You obviously don't get the math here.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22384821 - 10/15/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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But it is all rainbows and unicorns.

Quote:
But there’s a pretty benign explanation for this big disparity, according to Credit Suisse:
“Strong social security programs, good public pensions, free higher education or generous student loans, unemployment and health insurance can greatly reduce the need for personal financial assets. Public housing programs can do the same for real assets. This is one explanation for the high level of wealth inequality we identify in Denmark, Norway and Sweden: the top groups continue to accumulate for business and investment purposes, while the middle and lower classes have no pressing need for personal saving.”
So they’re unequal, at least in part, because much of the country’s middle class doesn’t feel the need to accumulate significant wealth. They don’t themselves own, for example, the state housing they live in, so it doesn’t appear in the figures. But they might just not feel they really need to.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/why-socialist-scandinavia-has-some-of-the-highest-inequality-in-europe-2014-10
I keep telling you you're comparing apples to oranges. Socialist societies don't value wealth the way we do. And as someone that grew up poor I'll take being poor in Norway over being just barely not poor here in the U.S. My friends and family owe thousands in student loan debt. I never went to college. If we lived in Norway I could be a doctor of mushroom growing instead of a hobbyist, making portobello batteries and shit. My loved ones wouldn't be stressing about loans. So what if I'd have a few less dollars in my bank account. I'd trade that for knowing my mom will be cared for when she can no longer take care of herself.
Unicorns and rainbows! Let's do it!!
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22384823 - 10/15/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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LOL you didn't like the "average" wealth so you chose median instead like a good socialist.
Average wealth is higher in the USA because of yada yada yada.. You're making shit up again.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22384835 - 10/15/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: But it is all rainbows and unicorns.

Quote:
But there’s a pretty benign explanation for this big disparity, according to Credit Suisse:
“Strong social security programs, good public pensions, free higher education or generous student loans, unemployment and health insurance can greatly reduce the need for personal financial assets. Public housing programs can do the same for real assets. This is one explanation for the high level of wealth inequality we identify in Denmark, Norway and Sweden: the top groups continue to accumulate for business and investment purposes, while the middle and lower classes have no pressing need for personal saving.”
So they’re unequal, at least in part, because much of the country’s middle class doesn’t feel the need to accumulate significant wealth. They don’t themselves own, for example, the state housing they live in, so it doesn’t appear in the figures. But they might just not feel they really need to.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/why-socialist-scandinavia-has-some-of-the-highest-inequality-in-europe-2014-10
I keep telling you you're comparing apples to oranges. Socialist societies don't value wealth the way we do. And as someone that grew up poor I'll take being poor in Norway over being just barely not poor here in the U.S. My friends and family owe thousands in student loan debt. I never went to college. If we lived in Norway I could be a doctor of mushroom growing instead of a hobbyist, making portobello batteries and shit. My loved ones wouldn't be stressing about loans. So what if I'd have a few less dollars in my bank account. I'd trade that for knowing my mom will be cared for when she can no longer take care of herself.
Unicorns and rainbows! Let's do it!!

Yes you would trade the wealth of the USA (18x the wealth of Norway per person) so you could "go to college" what short-sightedness
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22384897 - 10/15/15 06:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You really believe that educating people is short-sighted?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22384925 - 10/15/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said: LOL you didn't like the "average" wealth so you chose median instead.
Average wealth is higher in the USA because of yada yada yada...
You still don't get it. See if this helps:
Which country is doing better?
Country A - 1 million people, where 1 person has one trillion dollars ($1,000,000,000,000) in wealth, and everyone else has $1 in wealth. Average wealth = $1 million dollars and 99 cents.
Country B - 1 million people, where all 1 million people have $100,000 in wealth. Average wealth = $100,000
Country A has a MUCH higher average wealth (10x higher), but clearly most people are better off in country B
Do you get it now?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22385044 - 10/15/15 07:06 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I know. Your data is about 15 years old. Here's more current data on the top 10%, showing the US has now surpassed Denmark and Switzerland in income inequality.

Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Wealth is only higher in the US if you factor in the 400 wealthiest Americans, who own 62% of all wealth. 
Defeated
Edited by burgerbrain (10/15/15 07:06 PM)
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
#22385259 - 10/15/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: You really believe that educating people is short-sighted?
I'd say so, how many kids have college degrees now that are worthless? College isn't for everyone, no matter how much libs would like to think it is, and telling kids that it is, is tantamount to cruel and unusual punishment...
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22385286 - 10/15/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I was referring to both. The graph you posted when I talked about wealth and the income graph when I was talking of income.
As I pointed out in my very first post you're cherry picking the data to try to make an argument.
Also...
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: *edit*
You also failed to invalidate anything else I said. I take it you agree then that Norway is doing better than us when it comes to wealth inequality? As clearly represented by your graph?
Maybe you should campaign for Bernie.
Well after tax USA outdoes Norway income by far. That's why Norwegians don't have any wealth.
Norweigians have the biggest sovereign wealth fund in the world. They dont need to be millionaires to have decent lives.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22385414 - 10/15/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: I was referring to both. The graph you posted when I talked about wealth and the income graph when I was talking of income.
As I pointed out in my very first post you're cherry picking the data to try to make an argument.
Also...
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: *edit*
You also failed to invalidate anything else I said. I take it you agree then that Norway is doing better than us when it comes to wealth inequality? As clearly represented by your graph?
Maybe you should campaign for Bernie.
Well after tax USA outdoes Norway income by far. That's why Norwegians don't have any wealth.
Norweigians have the biggest sovereign wealth fund in the world. They dont need to be millionaires to have decent lives.
We were talking about Household wealth. Maybe in the future we could talk about government coffers and government assistance vs government waste and welfare. Want to talk about it now? Get a fucking graph.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 2 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22385482 - 10/15/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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You said the Norweigians dont have any wealth, and they do.
Dont blame me because youre being vague.
Either way my comment is still relevant. Americans use huge chumks of their household incomes on healthcare, education, transportation, time off work, etc. Norweigians dont have to worry about that so it stands to reason their household incomes are smaller.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22385497 - 10/15/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: You said the Norweigians dont have any wealth, and they do.
Dont blame me because youre being vague.
I see you don't have a graph/don't have the ability to post a graph.
Here's one: Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22385506 - 10/15/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Read the edit, since i have to spell it out for you.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22385525 - 10/15/15 08:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah Norway with their pathetic .6% gdp growth, I'm surprised they haven't instituted birth limits yet...
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 2 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22385545 - 10/15/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe a nation of 5 million people realized gradually trying to take over the world isnt the best course of action.
Infinite growth is unsustainable at best, Norway realized this so they invested wisely and now have some of the richest, happiest, healthiest, smartest, most leisurely people on earth.
Its funny to watch you grasp at straws trying pin anything negative you can on Scandinavian socialism. Most people grew out of the red scare when Reagan was president but you soldier on. I admire that.
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burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#22385549 - 10/15/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Maybe a nation of 5 million people realized gradually trying to take over the world isnt the best course of action.
Haha, this entire thread has been about "Per Capita" do you know what that means?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 2 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22385575 - 10/15/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgerbrain said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Maybe a nation of 5 million people realized gradually trying to take over the world isnt the best course of action.
Haha, this entire thread has been about "Per Capita" do you know what that means?
Yep, do you?
You cant even comprehend a relationship between household income and social programs.
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