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OnlineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 6 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22367347 - 10/12/15 09:47 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Is it true that in Norway Golden Unicorns sail across rainbow-clored skies and everyday is saturday? :popcorn:

That's why I'm not going to vote for Bernie, Ive decided.  Because he's blowing smoke up everyone's ass promising them a socialist utopia.

And most of you suckers are falling for it like the starry eyed, hypnotized fucking morons who voted that classless fucking buffoon into office because 'he was cool and his skin is black and he's a genius'

:lolsy:

man how could people be that fucking stupid?




1) you're terrible at hyperbole
2) we've already established at least a dozen times why Bernie isn't Obama.
3) don't ever whine about ad hominem again if you're gonna keep making posts like this

4)

Quote:

man how could people be that fucking stupid?





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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22367703 - 10/12/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So I read up on Norway.  They have the largest sovereign wealth fund on the planet (821 billion).  They're also the most socialist country on the planet.  In other words, that fund really belongs to the people.

Collectively the people of Norway own like 1% of all global stocks.

As far as private wealth, well....  private property isn't really a socialist concept.  That said, they get five weeks of vacation a year and like to travel a lot.

So as I and the article pointed out in my first post, some cultures view wealth and indeed even property differently.  Comparing the net private wealth of a socialist society to a capitalist one is like apples and oranges.


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Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 43 minutes
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22367797 - 10/12/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
So I read up on Norway.  They have the largest sovereign wealth fund on the planet (821 billion).  They're also the most socialist country on the planet.  In other words, that fund really belongs to the people.

Collectively the people of Norway own like 1% of all global stocks.

As far as private wealth, well....  private property isn't really a socialist concept.  That said, they get five weeks of vacation a year and like to travel a lot.

So as I and the article pointed out in my first post, some cultures view wealth and indeed even property differently.  Comparing the net private wealth of a socialist society to a capitalist one is like apples and oranges.




The USA and Norway shouldn't even be in the same conversation, the US could NEVER be like Norway.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica Flag
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
    #22367906 - 10/12/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
So I read up on Norway.  They have the largest sovereign wealth fund on the planet (821 billion).  They're also the most socialist country on the planet.  In other words, that fund really belongs to the people.

Collectively the people of Norway own like 1% of all global stocks.

As far as private wealth, well....  private property isn't really a socialist concept.  That said, they get five weeks of vacation a year and like to travel a lot.

So as I and the article pointed out in my first post, some cultures view wealth and indeed even property differently.  Comparing the net private wealth of a socialist society to a capitalist one is like apples and oranges.




The USA and Norway shouldn't even be in the same conversation, the US could NEVER be like Norway.




Ain't that the truth, Norway actually enforces their immigration laws, to guarantee their social safety nets stay solvent. THAT will never happen here...


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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OnlineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 6 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22368519 - 10/12/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

First they deny socialism works.
Then they deny specific policies work.
Then they say it doesn't matter if it works because it can't work here.

How convenient.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22368713 - 10/12/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well great, three cheers for barnie.  Lets be like Norway.  And I'll tell you how to make it happen.

Lets have the states be the independent soverign nations again.  That way the populations will have a chance

to make the rule laws and regulations that will allow them to prosper.


It ain't going to happen with 350 million people voting for uncle sam to get the big teat out there for everyone to suckle on.





As long as inner city bums in New York get to leech off the private earnings of people in Utah, etc, we will never be great again. 

Let New Yorkers leech off New Yorkers, Georgians leech off Georgians.  Boy you will see things change a lot.


But Bernies going to fix that---he's going to squat and shit 100 dollar bills so people can have free stuff


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 6 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22368741 - 10/12/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I was with you until you got silly again.

Giving the states more authority, and letting them keep more revenue in turn, is a good move to separate the oligarchy from their piggy bank.



But here's the point from my last post: If socialism can only work in nations with specific policies in place, then just say that. Save this subforum another 10 page argument about whether socialism itself is viable or not when we all agree that it is, albeit in specific circumstances.


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 43 minutes
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22368753 - 10/12/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
First they deny socialism works.
Then they deny specific policies work.
Then they say it doesn't matter if it works because it can't work here.

How convenient.




Let us deport the cultures that would need to go and then the US would have a chance. It's not going to work with our current population, no chance in hell.

Norway has 5 million people with a very small minority population.


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 6 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
    #22368767 - 10/12/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
First they deny socialism works.
Then they deny specific policies work.
Then they say it doesn't matter if it works because it can't work here.

How convenient.




Let us deport the cultures that would need to go and then the US would have a chance. It's not going to work with our current population, no chance in hell.

Norway has 5 million people with a very small minority population.




Yet have the biggest sovereign wealth fund in the world. How did only 5 million accomplish that?

Because instead of 10,000 of them telling the other 4.99 million to go fuck themselves, they invested in their citizens so they WOULDN'T have any "undesirable cultures" to ruin things.


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 6 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #22368784 - 10/12/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

If the powers that be in government came out and said "look, we're done demonizing the poor, we're gonna take these billions we give to wall street and the defense contractors and invest in work programs and education and healthcare," don't you think that would motivate people? Change the culture?

We can't just keep tossing millions of people our table scraps then scoffing at then like rats when they scramble for them. That's not going to change shit.


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Edited by The Ecstatic (10/12/15 03:59 PM)


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22368869 - 10/12/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
If the powers that be in government came out and said "look, we're done demonizing the poor, we're gonna take these billions we give to wall street and the defense contractors and invest in work programs and education and healthcare," don't you think that would motivate people? Change the culture?

We can't just keep tossing millions of people are table scraps then scoffing at then like rats when they scramble for them. That's not going to change shit.





why are you stealing my words?

"Do you like the government?  Just roll over, wag your tail and slobber they will throw you another scrap from the table..."

Remember?

By the way, this little bit of insight you've finally gained is well defined by stalin:

Stalin: "Gratitude is for dogs...."


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OnlineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 6 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22368959 - 10/12/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Not liking how the government spends our money isn't the same as saying the government shouldn't spend our money.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22369296 - 10/12/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Norway also didn't allow their labor market to be flooded with cheap labor, they didn't import 500,000 poor people in the last 20 years... (Yes, that's ten percent of their population) like we did...

Let's deport every illegal, and then maybe, just maybe, we could be as great as Norway is, until then, it's comparing apples to footwear...


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 43 minutes
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22370655 - 10/12/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
First they deny socialism works.
Then they deny specific policies work.
Then they say it doesn't matter if it works because it can't work here.

How convenient.




Let us deport the cultures that would need to go and then the US would have a chance. It's not going to work with our current population, no chance in hell.

Norway has 5 million people with a very small minority population.




Yet have the biggest sovereign wealth fund in the world. How did only 5 million accomplish that?

Because instead of 10,000 of them telling the other 4.99 million to go fuck themselves, they invested in their citizens so they WOULDN'T have any "undesirable cultures" to ruin things.




"How did only 5 million accomplish that?"

Well, oil for one and also the desire to help out their own people (Norwegians helping out Norwegians).  We don't have that in the US, this melting pot of diversity doesn't have that natural tribalism that Norway enjoys. 

They also didn't flow their homeland with former slaves and illegal immigrants like the US.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
Freedom Lover
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
    #22372454 - 10/13/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)



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Invisibleburgerbrain
Freedom Lover
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22372521 - 10/13/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Why Bernie Sanders isn’t going to be president, in five words
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/12/why-bernie-sanders-isnt-going-to-be-president-in-5-words/

CHUCK TODD: Are you a capitalist?

@BernieSanders:  No.  I'm a Democratic Socialist.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
    #22372585 - 10/13/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Why Bernie Sanders isn’t going to be president, in five words
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/12/why-bernie-sanders-isnt-going-to-be-president-in-5-words/

CHUCK TODD: Are you a capitalist?

@BernieSanders:  No.  I'm a Democratic Socialist.




Hopefully the libs here don't represent America, the bullshit is growing on them...


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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Invisibleburgerbrain
Freedom Lover
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22374869 - 10/13/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Why Bernie Sanders isn’t going to be president, in five words
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/12/why-bernie-sanders-isnt-going-to-be-president-in-5-words/

CHUCK TODD: Are you a capitalist?

@BernieSanders:  No.  I'm a Democratic Socialist.




Hopefully the libs here don't represent America, the bullshit is growing on them...




The libs here represent San Francisco views. LOL


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain] * 1
    #22376891 - 10/14/15 02:59 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_310463.pdf



The problem with your graph is that it looks at average wealth, which is meaningless in the United States, since the 400 wealthiest Americans own 62% of the wealth, meaning the average wealth per household for the other 320 million people is less than half of what your graph shows.

What is FAR more relevant is median numbers:



Here we see the countries Bernie mentioned are doing better than the US.

And if you prefer to look at median wealth over median income (which definitely makes sense), the US is doing MUCH worse:

U.S. Median Wealth Only 27th in World

That's why I'd vote for Bernie.  I'd like more wealth for the rest of us, not just the top 400 people.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleburgerbrain
Freedom Lover
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Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22377391 - 10/14/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

burgerbrain said:
Figure 4: Financial Net Wealth of Households

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_310463.pdf



The problem with your graph is that it looks at average wealth, which is meaningless in the United States, since the 400 wealthiest Americans own 62% of the wealth, meaning the average wealth per household for the other 320 million people is less than half of what your graph shows.

What is FAR more relevant is median numbers:



Here we see the countries Bernie mentioned are doing better than the US.

And if you prefer to look at median wealth over median income (which definitely makes sense), the US is doing MUCH worse:

U.S. Median Wealth Only 27th in World

That's why I'd vote for Bernie.  I'd like more wealth for the rest of us, not just the top 400 people.






LOL so you're saying Norway doesn't have rich people? Hilarious.


The following is a list of Norwegian billionaires. It is based on an annual assessment of wealth and assets compiled and published by Forbes magazine on March 10, 2013.[1]
1 198 Olav Thon real estate $6.0 billion
2 329 Stein Erik Hagen retail $4.0 billion
3 458 Kjell Inge Røkke shipping, seafood $3.0 billion
4 931 Arne Wilhelmsen Royal Caribbean $1.6 billion
5 1107 Andreas Halvorsen hedge fund $1.3 billion
6 1175 Petter Stordalen hotels $1.2 billion

LOL your median wealth graph is bullshit-doesn't even talk about taxation which is DOUBLE in Norway.

Socialists are a confused bunch.


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