|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22641170 - 12/11/15 12:16 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Maybe you can help HU out. He credited Bush for his recovery and blamed Obama for not recovering fast enough.
Then he said it was ignorant to blame bush for his recession and to credit Obama for the recovery.
So which is it??? Does the President have an impact on the economy or doesn't he???
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
burgerbrain
Freedom Lover



Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 962
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22641176 - 12/11/15 12:18 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Maybe you can help HU out. He credited Bush for his recovery and blamed Obama for not recovering fast enough.
Then he said it was ignorant to blame bush for his recession and to credit Obama for the recovery.
So which is it??? Does the President have an impact on the economy or doesn't he???
In what context?
Tell you what, liberal Obowma voter; If you answer hu's question then I'll answer yours.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: burgerbrain]
#22641877 - 12/11/15 09:09 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I already know your answer - it's the same as HU's. Republican presidents get credit for good things that happen, but Democratic presidents don't. Similarly for both of you, Republicans can't be blamed for bad things that happen, and Democrats can't be credited for the good.
But for the rest of the folks, here are some things Obama did well:
The stimulus spending obviously turned the economy back in the right direction. The GM bailouts saved millions of American jobs. His refusal to take austerity measures like Europe also clearly helped the US economy.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22642086 - 12/11/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I already know your answer - it's the same as HU's. Republican presidents get credit for good things that happen, but Democratic presidents don't. Similarly for both of you, Republicans can't be blamed for bad things that happen, and Democrats can't be credited for the good.
But for the rest of the folks, here are some things Obama did well:
The stimulus spending obviously turned the economy back in the right direction. The GM bailouts saved millions of American jobs. His refusal to take austerity measures like Europe also clearly helped the US economy.
"The stimulus spending obviously turned the economy back in the right direction"
What stimulus? $20 billion per year into a $17 trillion economy isn't stimulus.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
#22642104 - 12/11/15 10:20 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Where'd you come up with $20 billion per year???
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22642161 - 12/11/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009
Most is tax incentives and more funding for some social services, the direct stimulus is very limited.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
#22642230 - 12/11/15 10:56 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Where'd you come up with $20 billion per year???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009
Most is tax incentives and more funding for some social services, the direct stimulus is very limited.
I still don't know where you came up with $20 billion/year. That appears to show WAY more than that.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22642279 - 12/11/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
"Infrastructure investment $105 billion." That's over 10 years!! I don't consider extending unemployment benefits and Medicaid spending economic stimulus.
|
hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22642291 - 12/11/15 11:18 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
But for the rest of the folks,
Like you're some sort of nonpartisan 
The job market today is lousy, low wages, stagnant GDP, the only reason Wall Street is doing well is cheap interest rates, and that can't last, once again, economic stimulus and low interest rates kill the average American in their saving, but yeah, the Wall Street bankers LOVE it! Is wall streEt Main Street? No it is not, the majority of Americans have little or nothing to do with the stock market
Quote:
The sharpest decline is among middle-income Americans, classified as those earning between $30,000 and $75,000. In 2008, about 66% of middle class Americans owned stocks, compared to just 50% now.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/09/investing/american-stock-ownership/
Obama is a miserable failure, unless you're in the top tax brackets, which apparently you are as I've heard you brag about it, lol
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
#22642786 - 12/11/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said: "Infrastructure investment $105 billion." That's over 10 years!! I don't consider extending unemployment benefits and Medicaid spending economic stimulus.
ANY kind of additional spending stimulates the economy. Whether it be by unemployed people or wealthy people.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22642822 - 12/11/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: "Infrastructure investment $105 billion." That's over 10 years!! I don't consider extending unemployment benefits and Medicaid spending economic stimulus.
ANY kind of additional spending stimulates the economy. Whether it be by unemployed people or wealthy people.
There's a difference in the quality of government spending, a mis-allocation of resources doesn't create wealth.
The ultimate goal is to get a decent return on investment, pissing the spending away doesn't qualify as stimulating the economy.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22642830 - 12/11/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: The job market today is lousy
Do you have any evidence of this? Unemployment is back to normal:

Quote:
hostileuniverse said: low wages
I agree with you on this, and I've been arguing we need to raise the minimum wages. Are you with me on this, or aren't you???
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
#22642855 - 12/11/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said: There's a difference in the quality of government spending, a mis-allocation of resources doesn't create wealth.
How is giving money to Main St a "mis-allocation" of resources???
Quote:
qman said: The ultimate goal is to get a decent return on investment, pissing the spending away doesn't qualify as stimulating the economy.
How is unemployment payments "pissing the money away"???
Most people who were unemployed during the recession are now back to work, as evidenced by the current unemployment rate. That money didn't keep people dependent on Government; it helped get them back on their feet. And it helped stimulate the economy at the same time. Money spent on Main St to me is money well spent.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22642925 - 12/11/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: There's a difference in the quality of government spending, a mis-allocation of resources doesn't create wealth.
How is giving money to Main St a "mis-allocation" of resources???
Quote:
qman said: The ultimate goal is to get a decent return on investment, pissing the spending away doesn't qualify as stimulating the economy.
How is unemployment payments "pissing the money away"???
Most people who were unemployed during the recession are now back to work, as evidenced by the current unemployment rate. That money didn't keep people dependent on Government; it helped get them back on their feet. And it helped stimulate the economy at the same time. Money spent on Main St to me is money well spent.
I'm not disagreeing, but there's still quality of spending. Just feeding out food stamps and unemployment benefits doesn't fix the problem, it's just a temporary fix.
My main point, there wasn't any real economic stimulus.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
#22643034 - 12/11/15 03:32 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said: I'm not disagreeing, but there's still quality of spending. Just feeding out food stamps and unemployment benefits doesn't fix the problem, it's just a temporary fix.
Sure, and it was a temporary extension to get people through the recession.
Quote:
qman said: My main point, there wasn't any real economic stimulus.
$1 spent by an unemployed person is the same as $1 spent by a working person. If spending goes up, unemployment goes down.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22644501 - 12/11/15 10:02 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I'm not disagreeing, but there's still quality of spending. Just feeding out food stamps and unemployment benefits doesn't fix the problem, it's just a temporary fix.
Sure, and it was a temporary extension to get people through the recession.
Quote:
qman said: My main point, there wasn't any real economic stimulus.
$1 spent by an unemployed person is the same as $1 spent by a working person. If spending goes up, unemployment goes down.
So if we follow your line of reasoning, more spending will reduce employment, regardless of deficits and debt.
Shouldn't Mexico, Greece, Spain, Italy, Japan, and all the struggling economies of the world embrace that policy? Why don't they?
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: qman]
#22644892 - 12/12/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I'm not disagreeing, but there's still quality of spending. Just feeding out food stamps and unemployment benefits doesn't fix the problem, it's just a temporary fix.
Sure, and it was a temporary extension to get people through the recession.
Quote:
qman said: My main point, there wasn't any real economic stimulus.
$1 spent by an unemployed person is the same as $1 spent by a working person. If spending goes up, unemployment goes down.
So if we follow your line of reasoning, more spending will reduce employment, regardless of deficits and debt.
Shouldn't Mexico, Greece, Spain, Italy, Japan, and all the struggling economies of the world embrace that policy? Why don't they?
In the short term, yes. More spending will reduce UN-employment. But there will be interest on that debt in the long term, and the debt has to be paid down in the future.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22645442 - 12/12/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: The job market today is lousy
Do you have any evidence of this? Unemployment is back to normal:


part time jobs are now the norm? thats back to normal???
and no, its not by "choice"
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22645446 - 12/12/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I'm not disagreeing, but there's still quality of spending. Just feeding out food stamps and unemployment benefits doesn't fix the problem, it's just a temporary fix.
Sure, and it was a temporary extension to get people through the recession.
Quote:
qman said: My main point, there wasn't any real economic stimulus.
$1 spent by an unemployed person is the same as $1 spent by a working person. If spending goes up, unemployment goes down.
So if we follow your line of reasoning, more spending will reduce employment, regardless of deficits and debt.
Shouldn't Mexico, Greece, Spain, Italy, Japan, and all the struggling economies of the world embrace that policy? Why don't they?
In the short term, yes. More spending will reduce UN-employment. But there will be interest on that debt in the long term, and the debt has to be paid down in the future.
So there's a limit to this strategy to reduce unemployment?
And using the money for health care or food stamps doesn't have the same long term return on investment that a modern rail system might have on the economy.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Remember when Bernie said the USA should be more like Norway? [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22645450 - 12/12/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: The job market today is lousy
Do you have any evidence of this? Unemployment is back to normal:


part time jobs are now the norm? thats back to normal???
and no, its not by "choice"

I've tried explaining to him that his "unemployment" chart is bogus many times, he won't budge. Everything in the labor market is still "normal", yet everyone you talk with says the complete opposite.
|
|